Washed up Walkons this week

[TychoBrahe]

I listened to the whole thing. It's good to absorb as much perspective as you can on this story. I tuned out when they criticized Oliver Martin for transferring to Iowa from Michigan last summer. And their pod isn't my cup of tea, but it's worth listening to the current episode even if you disagree with some of their opinions, as I do.

And, no, it's not their take on DJK. I disagree with their opinion that players should have gone to KF first instead of going public on social media. If they felt comfortable going to KF or believed he would address their concerns, they would have done so.

I have to disagree with this. Given the reactionary state of modern social media, unless Daniels et al were looking to cut-bait on the program forever, or trying to bury it, it would have been infinitely preferable for them to approach KF as a group to express their concerns first. It's more than possible KF could've been fired (still could happen), the program put in utter disarray (pretty close already), and its reputation forever tarnished (remains to be seen), by making it public right from the start.

But they say they never wanted KF fired, nor the program buried. Maybe they were naive not to understand what would or could happen if they broke the story on social media first, but I wonder if Daniels et co. don't now look back and go, hmm, maybe there was a better way to have done this. A more productive way, without the resultant craziness (national media criticism, Kinnick statue vandalism, recruiting ammunition for opponents, etc). Good will come out of this, and needed changes will be made. But as a process goes--this one seemed needlessly traumatic perhaps.

 

[RobHowe]

I can see that as a way of bringing up their issues, going straight to the head coach. But that they didn't feel comfortable doing so, is a question that needs to be asked.

The issues were first raised on social media Wednesday night. That was James Daniels. Thursday, Mike Daniels, Jaleel Johnson and others Tweeted about it. Then, Friday the floodgates opened with all the stories. Then KF released a statement and started calling players. Maybe Iowa could have nipped this in the bud before Friday night by reaching out? I find it hard to believe they didn't see anything based on how they have people in the program combing social media.

 

[kameltoez102]

I am not around the program enough to see if there is a difference in how Doyle acted around players or around the coaching staff and team. Is he much more pleasant on game day when the other coaches and people outside the program are on the sidelines?

I know with contact time restrictions how many other coaches are around when the guys are lifting and doing conditioning? Is there kind of a Jekyll and Hyde thing going on? I mean there is a difference in using tough love or just being a jerk and from what I have heard it is mostly being a major jerk.

As much as I appreciate Doyle and what he has done for the program from some of the comments I have seen regardless of the good things he has done if the statements are in fact true of what he has said to guys and the feeling of walking on egg shells then he has to go.

Doyle has taken a huge part of the public damage but how does this affect BF and any other coaches that have also been implicated? I have a feeling Doyle will end of being the fall guy and some other coaches getting some "Final" warnings. If this has been affecting the program as much as some say then this is a good thing to help right the ship.

I also think there is a very outside shot Doyle retains his job but as a consultant type person who will have very little contact with the athletes and just designs the workouts and helps in that capacity, and the only way I can see that happening is with KFs loyalty to him and the mess it is to actually fire someone once they get into that state system. Do they have enough information from their interviews to pull the plug and protect themselves from a lawsuit? At the end of the day it will be about money and the University being able to protect itself.

 

[HawkU]

I listened to the whole thing. It's good to absorb as much perspective as you can on this story. I tuned out when they criticized Oliver Martin for transferring to Iowa from Michigan last summer. And their pod isn't my cup of tea, but it's worth listening to the current episode even if you disagree with some of their opinions, as I do.

And, no, it's not their take on DJK. I disagree with their opinion that players should have gone to KF first instead of going public on social media. If they felt comfortable going to KF or believed he would address their concerns, they would have done so.

So if we were neighbors and you had an issue with me would you be that guy who goes straight to the po-po before having a man-to-man conversation and giving me an opportunity to fix - if I can -what ails you?

 

[RobHowe]

So if we were neighbors and you had an issue with me would you be that guy who goes straight to the po-po before having a man-to-man conversation and giving me an opportunity to fix - if I can -what ails you?

Not seeing that as a viable comparison.

 

[HawkU]

Not seeing that as a viable comparison.

You didn't answer the question - which speaks volumes.

If all these Twitter and Fakebook marshmallows really cared about Iowa football they would have given those they have a grievance with a private opportunity to fix it before going public.

At the end of the day it's a by-product of who we have become as a nation. Soft and looking for somebody else to handle what we should do ourselves.

 

[RobHowe]

Are you saying that racial issues in the country would go away if everyone toughened up or that racism isn’t a problem in the country?

 

[DMLadyhawk]

I am going to bring up something I have not seen addressed which I may have missed and that is the age of a lot of the former players who were posting on Twitter.. I understand why KF did not allow players being on Twitter. Once you post something, it is out there and becomes part of your future as well. If I am not mistaken, James D was 17 when he came to the football program. It seems like Chris Doyle may be a big, sarcastic jerk and that the methods he used and his manner of interacting with some players is unacceptable. We will find out more shortly.

I just think that among young people, they think communication by social media is a good way to communicate, and as the previous poster said, it is very naive to think that their comments would not create an uproar. From some later comments, it does not seem like they meant to create a public issue for the University, It is hard to figure out why they did not go to the coach when they were here. That bothers me. Unless I am missing something (which we know is definitely possible} you don't see players who have been out of school for more than a few years making these issues known. Doyle has been here for 21 years......

 

[revkev73]

it definitely isn’t. Iowa football has to be militaristic with discipline and organization, because when you want to be competitive with 3* athletes, the margin of error is so small, games are decided by inches. This isn’t Alabama which “could” half ass it and still win 10 games. This formula for Iowa is difficult, but serves players well in football and in life. Kluver said it best, if you are a high school player who comes from an undisciplined and unstructured background you will struggle.

Now the line between tough and demeaning is very difficult to skirt, and Doyle just touched the fire too much with demeaning and powerful guys like James daniels called him out. Once you are a millionaire NFL player the balance of power switches.

Agree with analysis...the looting mobs make everyone a hero and willing to bring up ways in which they have sensed Rachel issues.

The truth is out there somewhere. There is blood in the water and the sharks want someone to eat.

 

[revkev73]

Especially if you're unwilling to fall in line with Kaevon Merriweather's ultimatum.

Which, I am not.
Yet, I'm 100% an Iowa fan.

Kaevon is so proud he is speaking his mind. And he is so courageous letting us know what we can and can't do with our lives. But what if we would speak our mind about his threats and demands and juvenile ways?

Then it would go Rachel of course. Catch 22.

 

[CP87]

I listened to the whole thing. It's good to absorb as much perspective as you can on this story. I tuned out when they criticized Oliver Martin for transferring to Iowa from Michigan last summer. And their pod isn't my cup of tea, but it's worth listening to the current episode even if you disagree with some of their opinions, as I do.

And, no, it's not their take on DJK. I disagree with their opinion that players should have gone to KF first instead of going public on social media. If they felt comfortable going to KF or believed he would address their concerns, they would have done so.

I think the other argument for doing this in public view is that it will be a catalyst for other athletes at other institutions to do the same.

 

[CP87]

I am going to bring up something I have not seen addressed which I may have missed and that is the age of a lot of the former players who were posting on Twitter.. I understand why KF did not allow players being on Twitter. Once you post something, it is out there and becomes part of your future as well. If I am not mistaken, James D was 17 when he came to the football program. It seems like Chris Doyle may be a big, sarcastic jerk and that the methods he used and his manner of interacting with some players is unacceptable. We will find out more shortly.

I just think that among young people, they think communication by social media is a good way to communicate, and as the previous poster said, it is very naive to think that their comments would not create an uproar. From some later comments, it does not seem like they meant to create a public issue for the University, It is hard to figure out why they did not go to the coach when they were here. That bothers me. Unless I am missing something (which we know is definitely possible} you don't see players who have been out of school for more than a few years making these issues known. Doyle has been here for 21 years......

I think the other issue at play is how younger athletes respond to demanding coaches and teammates. Check out the following podcast in which Stephen Jackson and Matt Barnes talk about how they responded to tough coaching vs. how their younger teammates did:

https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-...warriors-with-stephen-jackson-and-matt-barnes

 

[westender]

I listened to the whole thing. It's good to absorb as much perspective as you can on this story. I tuned out when they criticized Oliver Martin for transferring to Iowa from Michigan last summer. And their pod isn't my cup of tea, but it's worth listening to the current episode even if you disagree with some of their opinions, as I do.

And, no, it's not their take on DJK. I disagree with their opinion that players should have gone to KF first instead of going public on social media. If they felt comfortable going to KF or believed he would address their concerns, they would have done so.

The truth is somewhere in between in almost all these cases.

 

[SmokeTownHawk]

I can see that as a way of bringing up their issues, going straight to the head coach. But that they didn't feel comfortable doing so, is a question that needs to be asked.

The issues were first raised on social media Wednesday night. That was James Daniels. Thursday, Mike Daniels, Jaleel Johnson and others Tweeted about it. Then, Friday the floodgates opened with all the stories. Then KF released a statement and started calling players. Maybe Iowa could have nipped this in the bud before Friday night by reaching out? I find it hard to believe they didn't see anything based on how they have people in the program combing social media.

I would hope the staffers combing social media have been called on the carpet at the very least for not catching this. Or maybe they brought it to the attention of supervisors who thought nothing of it. It would be interesting to see how this transpired. Always fascinated/disgusted at corporate psychology.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I listened to the whole thing. It's good to absorb as much perspective as you can on this story. I tuned out when they criticized Oliver Martin for transferring to Iowa from Michigan last summer. And their pod isn't my cup of tea, but it's worth listening to the current episode even if you disagree with some of their opinions, as I do.

And, no, it's not their take on DJK. I disagree with their opinion that players should have gone to KF first instead of going public on social media. If they felt comfortable going to KF or believed he would address their concerns, they would have done so.

Wasn't that mostly Kulick that wasn't a fan of Martin coming over? I know in the podcasts since then they've all cooled on that. Kulick can have some out there takes sometimes.

I agreed with Kevins take on how the players shoulda went to KF first. Could have had a documented meeting to see if you could get something done. I'm sure they all were told if you have an issue to take it to position coaches or strait to KF. That sort of thing should be discussed during their recruitment. Most everywhere would. If after such a meeting nothing is done about it then yeah absolutely go public. This mob mentality of shotgunning everything on Twitter so folks can be publicly hung isn't how things should be done initially. It's not fair to KF in my opinion. I guess it's all about what shoes your in though...

The media lives for stuff like this. National, local, they are just looking for juicy content. Many former players involved for them to chase down. Parents of kids to talk to that are speaking out. I find it pretty contradictory for all those involved to try and say 'we care about the program and don't want anything bad to happen or for KF to lose his job'. Yet that's how they go about bringing this up. Because here's the thing once you do what they've done their intent doesn't matter. Then you put it in the hands of the Twitter mob and the media to run with it. And that's what's happening...

 

[Jonrn]

Wasn't that mostly Kulick that wasn't a fan of Martin coming over? I know in the podcasts since then they've all cooled on that. Kulick can have some out there takes sometimes.

I agreed with Kevins take on how the players shoulda went to KF first. Could have had a documented meeting to see if you could get something done. I'm sure they all were told if you have an issue to take it to position coaches or strait to KF. That sort of thing should be discussed during their recruitment. Most everywhere would. If after such a meeting nothing is done about it then yeah absolutely go public. This mob mentality of shotgunning everything on Twitter so folks can be publicly hung isn't how things should be done initially. It's not fair to KF in my opinion. I guess it's all about what shoes your in though...

The media lives for stuff like this. National, local, they are just looking for juicy content. Many former players involved for them to chase down. Parents of kids to talk to that are speaking out. I find it pretty contradictory for all those involved to try and say 'we care about the program and don't want anything bad to happen or for KF to lose his job'. Yet that's how they go about bringing this up. Because here's the thing once you do what they've done their intent doesn't matter. Then you put it in the hands of the Twitter mob and the media to run with it. And that's what's happening...

They should have gone to Kirk first, but no way would Doyle be fired without the masses putting external pressure on the program. I’m not saying I would air all the dirty family laundry on Twitter, but Doyle would maybe get some remediation without any consequences if handled 100% in house.

plus everyone wants the twitter adulation. Even if you are a millionaire NFL player, the high from getting thousands of likes and retweets and kudos is quite a rush.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

They should have gone to Kirk first, but no way would Doyle be fired without the masses putting external pressure on the program. I’m not saying I would air all the dirty family laundry on Twitter, but Doyle would maybe get some remediation without any consequences if handled 100% in house.

plus everyone wants the twitter adulation. Even if you are a millionaire NFL player, the high from getting thousands of likes and retweets and kudos is quite a rush.

Obviously it'd take a lot for KF to fire Doyle. The thing is if those players went to KF and in a formal meeting told him that if nothing is done and they feel like he's sweeping it under the rug then they'll go public with it we'd be right where we are now only with KF also being accused of sweeping it under the rug. So this bails him out of even having the chance to do that. With KF being painted into that corner on such a topic I can't see him trying to get away with doing next to nothing about it but we'll never know.

Yeah your right about social media. It's a way to make the famous more famous and the non famous think and feel like they are. It can be a great tool too. The ugly superficial stuff just sticks out like a sore thumb all the time.

 

[Robowe]

 

[SmokeTownHawk]

I thought Kluver had the best overall assessment of Doyle; not being a complete fanboy and citing examples of where lines were crossed. You could tell that Ward was really shell-shocked about this whole episode but he really took pains to try and understand why his mentor was coming under fire.

 

[kameltoez102]

Obviously it'd take a lot for KF to fire Doyle. The thing is if those players went to KF and in a formal meeting told him that if nothing is done and they feel like he's sweeping it under the rug then they'll go public with it we'd be right where we are now only with KF also being accused of sweeping it under the rug. So this bails him out of even having the chance to do that. With KF being painted into that corner on such a topic I can't see him trying to get away with doing next to nothing about it but we'll never know.

Yeah your right about social media. It's a way to make the famous more famous and the non famous think and feel like they are. It can be a great tool too. The ugly superficial stuff just sticks out like a sore thumb all the time.

There are ways to go about this and I thought the blasts on Twitter were the wrong way to do it because as it was posted above I believe social media is not the way to communicate something like this or really much of anything important. If the players felt that they could only get the point across in social media then so be it, but that is sad then. It is my opinion social media has been a huge negative impact on society and it continues to drag it into the toilet. The way people communicate is poor today, the facts are often muddled and are often second or third hand reports but that said it isn't going away.

If they had met with KF either in a large group or individually if they were able to document the meeting took place, and why, it puts a ton of pressure on KF and the University to do the investigation because they are now in the know. By blasting it out as stated above it lets some people off the hook but it also moves the process forward much more quickly. Ultimately I think it will be better for the program and I hope the coaches get their shit together. There is always a chance to turn a negative into a positive and I think there are moving in the right direction.