Was KF quoted correctly about the last 4th and 3 against Purdue

[PCHawk]

[/I]72395][/B]I doubt that is Alston's decision, I think it was his responsibility because Morris and our middle linebackers have to do this which I think is insane.

Why do we expect our middle LBkr to start in the middle, read run or pass and then have to run like hell to cover a fast back out of the backfield.

We have been beaten so many times on that play over the years. Plus we have no one in the middle to cover the QB draw which again kills us all the time.

One of the few bad schemes in Norm's and Phil's defense and it leads to a lot of big plays.

Even Brian Urlacher doesnt go out to the sidelines and it is about the same defensive scheme

I bet you're right. It just looked really bad because he started running to cover someone who clearly never made it out of the pocket. If he would have waited until the running back made it out he still could have stopped him for a short gain.

 

[HawkeyeShane]

And Vandenberg said in his post game interview that they had practiced that pass play all week.

No, I'm not making that up.

I believe they call that one "Un-F*ckin-Stoppable!"...

 

[WayzataHawkeye]

It would have been a 52 yard field goal into the wind. Would have been tough to make and a miss would have given them great field position

Going for it and not getting it, which we did also gave them great field position. But common sense would tell you not to go for a 1 yard pass play on 4th and 3.

Punting in that position would have been the best decision in that circumstance. Pin them deep in their own territory, and make them drive the ball the length of the field in less then a minute. However, I am sure that many would have complained about that as well

If he had punted and we lost the game in OT, KF would have been crucified on this message board. Going for it made sense. That play????

 

[hawkdrummer1]

If he had punted and we lost the game in OT, KF would have been crucified on this message board. Going for it made sense. That play????

this TonkaHawkeye...agrees with Wayzata Hawkeye

 

[DTF]

They worked on THAT play all week? If KF thinks that play will result in a win it's no wonder they think JVB gives them the best chance to win. He can throw that route all day. I don't know how they've lost 4 straight with that system: throwing passes on 3rd and 4th that are short of the marker? Who can stop that?

 

[oroko]

I am with you, I don't think the decision was a poor one. I think the decision on 3rd down was a poor one if they planned on going for it anyway, why not run the ball there, control the clock or make Purdue call a timeout and then go for it on 4th?
Otherwise as you mentioned a fake punt or field goal would have been a good call. Especially with Wienke in as the holder or short punter. Give him a chance to be hero, it would have been a great time for a fake punt, IMHO.
I don't have a problem with them going for it all. The 4th down play call was so simply terrible though that it has made it an issue. You had to know on 3rd down that if you didn't convert there you were either going for it or punting. It was pretty clear that a field goal was not an option there.

I'm going to get Nate Silver to calculate the odds of that happening.

 

[PCHawk]

I don't think running on 3rd and 10 would have been a good idea at all. Davis should have fought for the 1st instead of trying to get out of bounds. Also no way Purdue would call time out when we are just outside field goal range. They were praying for the clock to run out at that point.

As far as a fake punt goes, no coach would ever believe anyone would be dumb enough to punt in that situation so they would have been all over that one. On the long run by Purdue, Alston ran down to the flat to cover the running back that got caught up at the line of scrimmage. That was a very bad decision that left the middle of the field wide open.

Gamefilm says i'm right on Alston. He and I are one in the same when analyzing film.

 

[hawkfan2679]

Finally got to see the 4th and 3 play for the first time (CPA exam on Monday basically destroyed entire weekend for me) and I have a couple issues. Yes, I realize I'm horribly late to the party.

1. I don't hate the playcall, although I don't love it. It's a microcosm of how "close to the vest" we have played several games over the past 2 seasons in our refusal to try anything downfield. 2 of the 4 eligibles ran hitches right at the sticks, CJF ran a sit route right at the sticks, and Derby had the flat route.

2. Absolutely nothing deceptive about the coverage. Tight press man across the board, one high safety, showing that they'd bring 6 at the snap. Either way you aren't dealing with zone coverage due to the leverage of the corners and their techniques.

3. The route concept is called "Spacing", and most every team runs it (mostly out of bunch, which we motioned to). Against zone, it provides a horizontal stretch of the underneath coverage as most teams won't try to man up vs. bunch sets. If you do get man coverage, Derby is probably the most correct read on the play, although you do have a small house in CJF whose responsibility on the play is to get to a spot past the sticks, directly over the ball, and post up the MLB.

4. First, the easy issue with the call...the personnel package. Why you have your 3rd/4th string TE as the primary on that play I'm not sure...maybe they don't trust Hamilton in that scenario, but especially once you got man coverage, you have to hope that the rest of the play works out perfectly or he's probably not going to be able to make the catch and gain the first.

5. Secondly, I'd guess that KMM's route was supposed to take him deeper to allow his man to get in the way or "rub" the fella who is covering Derby out of the wing position. But the issue(s) there were that KMM's motion took him too far inside, leaving Derby in a 1 on 1 race to the corner with a safety (not a contest he's going to win very often). Furthermore, KMM got all jammed up and couldn't get through, so the safety easily slid over the top and KMM's route meant nothing to the play.

If you are set on using Derby, it probably would be better to cut KMM"s split from the get go and bring Derby in motion from the other side of the formation to get to the bunch set so he's got a little bit of a head start...plus then if they choose to go man, not only do we have the possibility of the natural rub with KMM's route, but the guy guarding Derby has to fight through traffic following him across the formation.

 

[hawkfan2679]

Artwork on the concept I described in the prior post. Only thing we changed is X running the hitch at the sticks instead of the slant on the single receiver side. I actually think Bullock went away from strong side too...

 

[hawkeyegamefilm]

I bet you're right. It just looked really bad because he started running to cover someone who clearly never made it out of the pocket. If he would have waited until the running back made it out he still could have stopped him for a short gain.

I was very puzzled by Alston's knee jerk reaction to the RB moving to the offensive left. He was just stepping over to help in pass pro. They needed 30+ yards to get in FG range, football IQ needs to kick in. Let him leak out and take a good angle to make the tackle if he's targeted. Chalk it up to a young player getting too jumpy and trying to be perfect.

 

[hawkeyegamefilm]

Artwork on the concept I described in the prior post. Only thing we changed is X running the hitch at the sticks instead of the slant on the single receiver side. I actually think Bullock went away from strong side too...

Dead on analysis. Spacing concepts are solid plays, but relying on KMM to execute a pick correctly isn't a great bet. Of the Iowa WRs he struggles the most with press and isn't a physical presence. If I'm going to use an Iowa WR to run a rub/pick route it's easily Keenan Davis. I haven't focused on that play too much due to all the other blown opportunities the offense had. That play was just a very tangible, and visible one.

 

[tubahawk]

Artwork on the concept I described in the prior post. Only thing we changed is X running the hitch at the sticks instead of the slant on the single receiver side. I actually think Bullock went away from strong side too...

Love this post and your previous. Please do this kind of breakdown more often.

 

[ihawkeye]

Love this post and your previous. Please do this kind of breakdown more often.

That offence doesn't seem that hard.

 

[Billso]

I'd argue the two other options that existed for teams not named Iowa were;
1. Fake Field Goal
2. Fake Punt.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on there, mister, what are you trying to say here?

This "fake" of which you speak is deception, plain and simple. How is that fair to the other team? It's dishonest, and therefore, unsportsmanlike.

So I'm glad you listed these as options for teams "not named Iowa". I would not stand silently by while anyone encourages Iowa's descent into the cesspool. We're better than that.