Wadley's transformation

[deanvogs]

Listening to Wadley's spring game interview I was left with some impressions about him and the program.

The coaches had preached and preached ball security and weight control to him for the past 3 years. He came in small, and he simply wasn't doing what he needed to do for awhile. Gaining the weight and strength was important to improve the ball security. Doing what you are supposed to do off the field with your nutrition/weight and in the weight room are important, and the coaches stress this for good reason. Wadley admitted that he was just immature and didn't get it at first. That he felt he would lose speed if he gained weight, he basically didn't trust the coaches.

This could have gone two ways, he could leave the program, and then posters on here would shout KF doesn't play his playmakers!!!! Yet it is more accurate to say KF doesn't play the players who are NOT buying into the system, and doing what they are told/supposed to do. There is a reason KF, Doyle, and staff stressed weight to Wadley forever, and we will be seeing why the next two years. He will now have the strength to hold onto the ball, have the bulk to carry more often, and still have all the speed and agility (or even better) than he did coming in. The staff want to make and produce a complete players, not settle for letting the player dictate his weight targets, just because the player doesn't get it, or isn't buying in.

I think 99% of the time the staff sees what a player can be after years in the program. They know how to get the player there, but the player has to get to that point by working his azz off. I still never see a reason to play a kid who isn't doing what he is supposed to be doing off the field, in the weight room, or with his nutrition/weight goals, no matter how talented he is. If they can't trust a player to do the easiest of easy things, then how can you trust them on the field with the game on the line. If you let a talented kid just skate by, and not demand of him what you demand of everyone else, you will never be able to ask that of your other players. Plus the staff isn't doing their job if they don't push these players, and make them better than they even ever thought they could be.

 

[deanvogs]

Here is a good example of how hard the players work in the weight room.

 

[PCHawk]

I thought this thread said Wadley's transferring at first glance. Running a program like that is fine and definitely has positives. But when you're that extreme with playing hard workers over talent, there are also some negatives, and those negatives are easier for fans to spot on game day.

Also it turns out that all the fans were right when they say Kirk doesn't play the best players.

 

[deanvogs]

I thought this thread said Wadley's transferring at first glance. Running a program like that is fine and definitely has positives. But when you're that extreme with playing hard workers over talent, there are also some negatives, and those negatives are easier for fans to spot on game day.

Also it turns out that all the fans were right when they say Kirk doesn't play the best players.

KF doesn't play hard workers over talent. KF wont' play any player who isn't doing what the coaches ask them to do regardless of their talent. It only make sense as the player will never reach their full talent unless they work hard and do what the coaches ask.

 

[DP5555]

KF doesn't play hard workers over talent. KF wont' play any player who isn't doing what the coaches ask them to do regardless of their talent. It only make sense as the player will never reach their full talent unless they work hard and do what the coaches ask.

That's the thing. Kirk is always going to make the choice that he believes is best for the player. The individual. He won't put the program before the individual, and that's a rarity these days. Fans fall on both sides of the fence when it comes to how they feel about that.

Look at the Darby situation for example. Kirk and his staff felt like Darby needed to go the prep school route. They felt like it was in his best interest to do so. Now a lot of people aren't going to be big fans of that decision, but Kirk knows what decision is going to make the biggest impact on that young man's future and he isn't going to let him take a path that he doesn't believe is in his best interest even if it would benefit the program. Now, hypothetically speaking, let's say Kirk let Darby join the program and a year later he left it because his grades weren't cutting it or his maturity level wasn't where it needed to be. No one would give Kirk crap then, but Kirk would know deep down that he didn't give that young man his best advice. He didn't do what he should have for that young man.

I'm proud of the fact Iowa has a coach like KF. His values and his approach are hard to find in today's college football landscape. He's exactly the kind of coach I'd want my son to go play for. I think a ton of Iowa fans feel the same way. Of course there's a segment of the fan base who doesn't agree with his decisions. That happens everywhere, but by and large most people are really proud of the way he goes about his business. I just try to do my best not to let the haters bother me.

 

[PCHawk]

KF doesn't play hard workers over talent. KF wont' play any player who isn't doing what the coaches ask them to do regardless of their talent. It only make sense as the player will never reach their full talent unless they work hard and do what the coaches ask.

Yea but when you factor in things like, iowa doesn't get a ton of talent, lots of talent that we do get leaves before they contribute, and kids can still develop better work ethic while they get play time, it's easy to make a case for the other side of the arguement. There's not really a right or wrong, just personal preference.

 

[meaning]

It takes a lot for a person to admit that he was wrong or "didn't get it" ... especially true for 18-22 kids whom have probably been told their whole life that they're stars. I respect the kid for owning that and doing the work to get better.

I will say that it's easier for fans to put trust in the coaching staff or "the system" after a 12-0 regular season. The staff has earned some capital, so I'll go ahead and try to not complain about decisions regarding individual players or whatever.

 

[deanvogs]

Yea but when you factor in things like, iowa doesn't get a ton of talent, lots of talent that we do get leaves before they contribute, and kids can still develop better work ethic while they get play time, it's easy to make a case for the other side of the arguement. There's not really a right or wrong, just personal preference.

What talent has left before they contribute? I can think off the top of my head of maybe 3 guys that have left and have made a mark that actually did something at another school. In 2 of the cases (Wegher and Hampton) were not the coaches fault for sure. The other that comes to mind is Cleveland at Houston I believe.

Losing 3 guys over 17 years isn't losing a lot of talent.

 

[ShemHawk]

Wadley's story reminds me a lot of Anthony Clemmons' story...always happy to see kids 'get it'

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Listening to Wadley's spring game interview I was left with some impressions about him and the program.

The coaches had preached and preached ball security and weight control to him for the past 3 years. He came in small, and he simply wasn't doing what he needed to do for awhile. Gaining the weight and strength was important to improve the ball security. Doing what you are supposed to do off the field with your nutrition/weight and in the weight room are important, and the coaches stress this for good reason. Wadley admitted that he was just immature and didn't get it at first. That he felt he would lose speed if he gained weight, he basically didn't trust the coaches.

This could have gone two ways, he could leave the program, and then posters on here would shout KF doesn't play his playmakers!!!! Yet it is more accurate to say KF doesn't play the players who are NOT buying into the system, and doing what they are told/supposed to do. There is a reason KF, Doyle, and staff stressed weight to Wadley forever, and we will be seeing why the next two years. He will now have the strength to hold onto the ball, have the bulk to carry more often, and still have all the speed and agility (or even better) than he did coming in. The staff want to make and produce a complete players, not settle for letting the player dictate his weight targets, just because the player doesn't get it, or isn't buying in.

I think 99% of the time the staff sees what a player can be after years in the program. They know how to get the player there, but the player has to get to that point by working his azz off. I still never see a reason to play a kid who isn't doing what he is supposed to be doing off the field, in the weight room, or with his nutrition/weight goals, no matter how talented he is. If they can't trust a player to do the easiest of easy things, then how can you trust them on the field with the game on the line. If you let a talented kid just skate by, and not demand of him what you demand of everyone else, you will never be able to ask that of your other players. Plus the staff isn't doing their job if they don't push these players, and make them better than they even ever thought they could be.

W

Listening to Wadley's spring game interview I was left with some impressions about him and the program.

The coaches had preached and preached ball security and weight control to him for the past 3 years. He came in small, and he simply wasn't doing what he needed to do for awhile. Gaining the weight and strength was important to improve the ball security. Doing what you are supposed to do off the field with your nutrition/weight and in the weight room are important, and the coaches stress this for good reason. Wadley admitted that he was just immature and didn't get it at first. That he felt he would lose speed if he gained weight, he basically didn't trust the coaches.

This could have gone two ways, he could leave the program, and then posters on here would shout KF doesn't play his playmakers!!!! Yet it is more accurate to say KF doesn't play the players who are NOT buying into the system, and doing what they are told/supposed to do. There is a reason KF, Doyle, and staff stressed weight to Wadley forever, and we will be seeing why the next two years. He will now have the strength to hold onto the ball, have the bulk to carry more often, and still have all the speed and agility (or even better) than he did coming in. The staff want to make and produce a complete players, not settle for letting the player dictate his weight targets, just because the player doesn't get it, or isn't buying in.

I think 99% of the time the staff sees what a player can be after years in the program. They know how to get the player there, but the player has to get to that point by working his azz off. I still never see a reason to play a kid who isn't doing what he is supposed to be doing off the field, in the weight room, or with his nutrition/weight goals, no matter how talented he is. If they can't trust a player to do the easiest of easy things, then how can you trust them on the field with the game on the line. If you let a talented kid just skate by, and not demand of him what you demand of everyone else, you will never be able to ask that of your other players. Plus the staff isn't doing their job if they don't push these players, and make them better than they even ever thought they could be.

Well speaking as a pretty slender guy myself that finds it incredibly difficult to gain and then maintain weight I can relate to Wadley. It's just not as easy as eating everything in sight and lifting weights. Throw in the fact that he has to run a ton to stay in the shape he needs to be in and I can totally see how with a slender frame and high metabolism he just has a tough time maintaining 190ish. I totally understand the importance of him needing to be as strong possible and have some more mass to him if he's to get more and more touches like I hope he gets. I think he's just about right at 190 if he can stay there. It's just not the same as guys that need to lose weight. It's way easier to lose weight then gain I think. Losing weight is within your control gaining not so much...

 

[deanvogs]

W

Well speaking as a pretty slender guy myself that finds it incredibly difficult to gain and then maintain weight I can relate to Wadley. It's just not as easy as eating everything in sight and lifting weights. Throw in the fact that he has to run a ton to stay in the shape he needs to be in and I can totally see how with a slender frame and high metabolism he just has a tough time maintaining 190ish. I totally understand the importance of him needing to be as strong possible and have some more mass to him if he's to get more and more touches like I hope he gets. I think he's just about right at 190 if he can stay there. It's just not the same as guys that need to lose weight. It's way easier to lose weight then gain I think. Losing weight is within your control gaining not so much...

I get this, but you also have to understand that you didn't have the advantages that Wadley has with an entire program built around nutrition and fitness.

I think the point Wadley himself made in the interview was he understands now that he was just being immature. He wasn't doing what the staff continually harped on him doing, ball security and hitting/making weight goals. It isn't like they asked him to hit 190 immediately, it is a process and one he is now accomplishing, because he is putting in the required work to make it happen.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Listening to Wadley's spring game interview I was left with some impressions about him and the program.

The coaches had preached and preached ball security and weight control to him for the past 3 years. He came in small, and he simply wasn't doing what he needed to do for awhile. Gaining the weight and strength was important to improve the ball security. Doing what you are supposed to do off the field with your nutrition/weight and in the weight room are important, and the coaches stress this for good reason. Wadley admitted that he was just immature and didn't get it at first. That he felt he would lose speed if he gained weight, he basically didn't trust the coaches.

This could have gone two ways, he could leave the program, and then posters on here would shout KF doesn't play his playmakers!!!! Yet it is more accurate to say KF doesn't play the players who are NOT buying into the system, and doing what they are told/supposed to do. There is a reason KF, Doyle, and staff stressed weight to Wadley forever, and we will be seeing why the next two years. He will now have the strength to hold onto the ball, have the bulk to carry more often, and still have all the speed and agility (or even better) than he did coming in. The staff want to make and produce a complete players, not settle for letting the player dictate his weight targets, just because the player doesn't get it, or isn't buying in.

I think 99% of the time the staff sees what a player can be after years in the program. They know how to get the player there, but the player has to get to that point by working his azz off. I still never see a reason to play a kid who isn't doing what he is supposed to be doing off the field, in the weight room, or with his nutrition/weight goals, no matter how talented he is. If they can't trust a player to do the easiest of easy things, then how can you trust them on the field with the game on the line. If you let a talented kid just skate by, and not demand of him what you demand of everyone else, you will never be able to ask that of your other players. Plus the staff isn't doing their job if they don't push these players, and make them better than they even ever thought they could be.

I can't help but wonder how much the new facilities might be helping AW, from a nutritional perspective. When they opened, I saw a video tour of the facilities and one thing that was stated is that there are now chefs/cooks on duty that have each players specific nutritional requirements available. So, for example, there is a specific nutritional plan for AW's pre/post workouts. I got the impression each player's diet was regimented, leaving less "on your own" responsibilities.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I get this, but you also have to understand that you didn't have the advantages that Wadley has with an entire program built around nutrition and fitness.

I think the point Wadley himself made in the interview was he understands now that he was just being immature. He wasn't doing what the staff continually harped on him doing, ball security and hitting/making weight goals. It isn't like they asked him to hit 190 immediately, it is a process and one he is now accomplishing, because he is putting in the required work to make it happen.

Well sure I bet he tried at first and then got frustrated when the results didn't come right away. It's human nature if he didn't put in as much effort at times after he got frustrated. No excuse for that. That's self motivation for sure. That's one of those things that's impossible to measure. Guys like JJ Watt have it to just an off the charts level. Some guys don't have much at all and there's plenty of inbetween. Now that's up to 190 he should be able to maintain it so long as he works at it. Summer camp will be the toughest time as they will be sweating the most.

 

[Kennyfromminne]

What talent has left before they contribute? I can think off the top of my head of maybe 3 guys that have left and have made a mark that actually did something at another school. In 2 of the cases (Wegher and Hampton) were not the coaches fault for sure. The other that comes to mind is Cleveland at Houston I believe.

Losing 3 guys over 17 years isn't losing a lot of talent.

Willies

 

[deanvogs]

Willies

I'll add him to the list if he makes an impact at TT this year. If he goes, that makes the list a Whopping 4 players, with 3 of them leaving being zero fault of KF (Willies, Wheger, and Hampton)

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I'll add him to the list if he makes an impact at TT this year. If he goes, that makes the list a Whopping 4 players, with 3 of them leaving being zero fault of KF (Willies, Wheger, and Hampton)

I'll give you Wegher and Hampon... But I think we still don't know the whole story on Willies and who's at fault there.. Granted if your only looking at it from the start with him wanting to leave to begin with (his reason being irrelevant since that's not KFs fault) then sure. But as far as how tough demanding or whatever word you want to use for his stipulations of him coming back were I guess we'll just never know. But the door was open for him to come back both sides said that much..

 

[DP5555]

I'll give you Wegher and Hampon... But I think we still don't know the whole story on Willies and who's at fault there.. Granted if your only looking at it from the start with him wanting to leave to begin with (his reason being irrelevant since that's not KFs fault) then sure. But as far as how tough demanding or whatever word you want to use for his stipulations of him coming back were I guess we'll just never know. But the door was open for him to come back both sides said that much..

Do you really think there's a chance that what Kirk was asking of Willies was unfair? Just hypothetically speaking without knowing the details of the situation do you really think that Kirk would do that?

Again, hypothetically speaking without knowing the details, I would guess that Kirk wanted DW to be a man. He wanted him to understand that the world doesn't revolve around him no matter how talented he is. He is still expected to perform his duties just like everyone else on the team and if he's falling short of that then it's his fault he isn't getting the kind of playing time he expected. If he chose to leave the program mid-season then he isn't going to simply be welcomed back with open arms just because he's talented. What does that teach the kid? It teaches him the same thing he's learned his entire life... that he can do things his way because his talent is so great that no one cares otherwise. That's not Kirk's style. Kirk does care otherwise. He cares about what kind of person you are and the person you are going to become. I have little doubt that he explained to Willies what he would need to do in order to regain his position on the team, and Willies didn't feel like it was a reasonable request so he decided to go in a different direction.

Chances are 10 years from now DW will probably look back on the circumstance and realize what Kirk was trying to do for him. He was a quitter. I don't make special rules for talented quitters. I don't expect Ferentz to either. A quitter is a quitter in my book. He let his team down because he was putting himself before the team. That isn't going to work in Iowa City. That's not the way they run the program. You wonder why a guy like DJK was in the doghouse his entire career? He was all about himself. That's where that story begins and ends.

 

[HawkInATX]

I'll add him to the list if he makes an impact at TT this year. If he goes, that makes the list a Whopping 4 players, with 3 of them leaving being zero fault of KF (Willies, Wheger, and Hampton)

Cody Sokol

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Do you really think there's a chance that what Kirk was asking of Willies was unfair? Just hypothetically speaking without knowing the details of the situation do you really think that Kirk would do that?

Again, hypothetically speaking without knowing the details, I would guess that Kirk wanted DW to be a man. He wanted him to understand that the world doesn't revolve around him no matter how talented he is. He is still expected to perform his duties just like everyone else on the team and if he's falling short of that then it's his fault he isn't getting the kind of playing time he expected. If he chose to leave the program mid-season then he isn't going to simply be welcomed back with open arms just because he's talented. What does that teach the kid? It teaches him the same thing he's learned his entire life... that he can do things his way because his talent is so great that no one cares otherwise. That's not Kirk's style. Kirk does care otherwise. He cares about what kind of person you are and the person you are going to become. I have little doubt that he explained to Willies what he would need to do in order to regain his position on the team, and Willies didn't feel like it was a reasonable request so he decided to go in a different direction.

Chances are 10 years from now DW will probably look back on the circumstance and realize what Kirk was trying to do for him. He was a quitter. I don't make special rules for talented quitters. I don't expect Ferentz to either. A quitter is a quitter in my book. He let his team down because he was putting himself before the team. That isn't going to work in Iowa City. That's not the way they run the program. You wonder why a guy like DJK was in the doghouse his entire career? He was all about himself. That's where that story begins and ends.

Well his reason for quitting and wanting to leave was his sick father I believe right? Hardly something to label one as a quitter over that's a bit harsh... Unless you don't believe that. I can see how something like that would tear a kid up. Making life decisions under those conditions can't be easy. I wasn't in on any of those sit down meetings so who knows what those conditions were and how reasonable they were or weren't. At that point it was up to DW to decide how much he wanted to still be a Hawk or not. I think KF was well within his rights to do what he did. And DW his to decide to not stay. At the end of the day that's what it boils down to. I just think calling the kid a quitter in blanket kind of way isn't completely fair to him since we just don't know enough..

 

[deanvogs]

Cody Sokol

Lol, no dice. He was 3rd string behind 2 much better players