Video Highlights & Evaluation: Patrick McCaffery

I gave an honest opinion. You upped the anti with an insult. I pushed back. He is not Big talent ...yet. Certainly you can see that. You can give an honest assessment withouout dissing him. But its all rah rah. He would noy project out big ten for his age.

Rob didn't insult you unless "anonymous internet poster" offends you. You said Patrick is D2 caliber which is utterly ridiculous considering there are like 350 D1 teams. He's also only a sophomore and is still growing and getting further away from his cancer scare. He's already made a big improvement from his freshman to sophomore year.
 
I gave an honest opinion. You upped the anti with an insult. I pushed back. He is not Big talent ...yet. Certainly you can see that. You can give an honest assessment withouout dissing him. But its all rah rah. He would noy project out big ten for his age.

I said that comparing the McCaffery brothers and their father to the situation with Todd and John Lickliter was ridiculous. I stand by that statement.

You made the conversation personal by saying I'm being rah-rah and incinuating I do so to maintain a relationship with Fran. You did the same thing when you accused me of not writing about KF's contract extension because I didn't want to offend him. In that case I had written a column about it saying the buy-out was a bad deal. Jon and I also did a podcast saying the same thing.

I did not make it personal. You did. I simply said I disagreed with your comparison of the Lickliters and McCaffreys. It is ridiculous.

You've now gotten two mulligans after questioning my integrity. You won't get a third.

And if you continue to battle with me on this point, you won't get a chance for a third time. You'll be gone.

I'm not another poster looking for a elementary school fight. There are plenty others with whom to do that.
 
OK Rob, let's dissect the article. Btw, I still stand by the position that by using the word ridiculous, you were being insulting and not impersonal.

Video Highlights & Evaluation: Patrick McCaffery
IOWA CITY, Iowa – Patrick McCaffery is one of the top-rated sophomores in the country. The Iowa City West forward is starting to show why. He is getting some recognition, but not much. None of us know whether either way it is because he is Fran's son and likely going to Iowa. It is a double edged sword.

After a modest first high school season, McCaffery (6-7) has more than tripled his scoring average to 15.2 points per game this winter. He’s almost doubled his rebounding to 4.1 per contest and his shooting 63.9 percent from the floor. 15.2 is impressive, but he is not garnering the most defensive pressure. From the video and from experience, I would surmise he is not drawing top defenders and oft is drawing an undersized defender.

McCaffery notched 13 points here Thursday night in a 58-48 win against Cedar Rapids Xavier. Xavier and most 4 A Iowa schools would struggle in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Michigan against similar sized schools. A big portion of that is due to Iowa's extreme control of the number of games played. AAU is what it is. Poor defense and poor team work.

EVALUATION: McCaffery’s improvement in the last year is very noticeable. He’s stronger and raised his skill set.
His shot technique is not what I would expect from the son of a Big coach. Some of that is due to being awkward which is an age thing. His brother doesn't have a great shot either though. His fall away move will seldom if at all work in the Big. It is a very slow and deliberate move.

McCaffery’s length challenges opponent’s on both ends of the court. He blocks and alters shots, and is very hard to block. Yes, agree, especially the fall away shot against much shorter defenders.

I was most impressed with his ability to defend fon the perimeter. While still growing into his body, he moves really well laterally. He’s a guy that can guard five positions.Guard 5 positions? Seriously Rob? If he went to any of the 5 states and played against inner city teams and some not, he would struggle to defend against anyone but someone like him or slow/short guys. Sorry, but you are way off on that one. He is slow footed. His development hasn't happened yet. This comment is particularly weak.


McCaffery can take defenders off the dribble as well as operate in the post. I didn’t see him shoot any deep jumpers in the game but he was effective as I watched him in warm-ups. Warm ups mean zero. You might have a case if it was in a big open court. A sound defender would take the ball from him consistently where he couldn't even put the ball on the court. Again, playing Iowa high school basketball doesn't get him a lot of experience. AAU isn't about D. He might develop where he can defend other bigs, but not among the starters of sound Big programs.

McCaffery runs the floor well. He also is a quick jumper, getting off the floor quickly. He does seem to have stamina. His shot speed I disagree with except that he is guarded by shorter players and not speed demons.


McCaffery still needs to get stronger as he continues through his prep career. His advancement in that area for someone that kicked cancer several years ago remains impressive, however. Yes, he still has time to develop.

McCaffery boasts an incredibly high ceiling. He he reaches it, watch out. He has a higher ceiling for his current maturity. You can go to any of the states I mentioned and see players like him are pretty common and most don't play Big level. Some don't go on at all electing a degree from a higher university than playing for a lesser U academically.

His strengths? He certainly will be savvy from being around what he is around. He does see the court well. Some players do and some don't. He does. He is tall and getting taller.

Weakness? He is slow. He lacks from competition the same as Williams in high school. Williams team at class 2a of 4 in his state would challenge the 4A title in Iowa. He lacks a good shot form which MAY improve with physical maturity.

If Iowa is reserving 2 spots for he and his brother, then that could pose issues for room at Iowa and other roster spots. We have seen how father/son relationships at Iowa have cause issues. The other recruits need to be higher than many of Fran's past recruits.

He may develop. He may not I would urge you to visit other states during Holiday Tourney time to review talent. Also a number of Big teams have tourneys over the summer coached by the actual HS coaches. Would give you a different perspective.

I do think your article was not in much depth. Some of the claims are there to be challenged. Guarding 5 spots just isn't even close.
 
HawkGold - As I mentioned in another thread, Iowa City West has spent the past 2 weekends playing some tough out of competition teams in Missouri (Webster Groves - 2 top 50 recruits) and Minnesota (Cretin Durham-Hall). They can't find Iowa teams who will play them in non-conference.

Here's the best I could find for each game.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/high...cle_ff907c22-f0ca-11e6-b43a-038104cebf76.html


Game 4: Cretin-Derham Hall vs #1AAAA Iowa City West (IA)
This was the showcase game of the day. The appeal was Gopher commit Daniel Oturu vs Iowa commit Connor McCaffery. CDH would stretch a 2 point lead to 10 at the half. Then in the 2nd half CDH would extend that lead to 20. The final was a 85-72 CDH win but it wasn't that close. Too much Daniel Oturu as he finishes with 29 points and 14 rebounds. Ryan Larson would jet his way to 18 points. Connor McCaffery with 22 points and 6 rebounds to lead Iowa City West. Patrick McCaffery with 12 points. But they didn't have much help.
 
I'm not sure why you wasted your time going through my entire analysis. We disagree on just about every point, which was obvious from your original post in this thread.

I may have been interested in discussing our differing opinions but that's not happening after you attacked my integrity multiple times on these boards.

I'm fine with criticism. I've been doing this long enough that my skin is plenty thick enough. But coming on here and saying my writing is slanted based on my wanting to protect my relationship with coaches is BS. You knew how I felt about it from the last time. Unless you have concrete evidence of that, don't do it again.

Here are some national rankings for Patrick. You can click on the links to see for yourself:

247 - 4-Star Recuit, No. 52 player in the '19 Class, No. 17 SF

Rivals - No. 60 Player in the '19 Class

Scout - 4-Star Recruit, No. 36 Player overall in the '19 Class, No. 8 PF nationally in '19

These rankings are done by people who watch countless amount of AAU games and national camps when these prospects face off against each other. I'm guessing you're not going to find similar rankings for John Lickliter.
 
I'm not sure why you wasted your time going through my entire analysis. We disagree on just about every point, which was obvious from your original post in this thread.

I may have been interested in discussing our differing opinions but that's not happening after you attacked my integrity multiple times on these boards.

I'm fine with criticism. I've been doing this long enough that my skin is plenty thick enough. But coming on here and saying my writing is slanted based on my wanting to protect my relationship with coaches is BS. You knew how I felt about it from the last time. Unless you have concrete evidence of that, don't do it again.

Here are some national rankings for Patrick. You can click on the links to see for yourself:

247 - 4-Star Recuit, No. 52 player in the '19 Class, No. 17 SF

Rivals - No. 60 Player in the '19 Class

Scout - 4-Star Recruit, No. 36 Player overall in the '19 Class, No. 8 PF nationally in '19

These rankings are done by people who watch countless amount of AAU games and national camps when these prospects face off against each other. I'm guessing you're not going to find similar rankings for John Lickliter.

I never said JL was good. As 10th graders, ratings go up and down. I hope he works out. If you want to criticize others opinions, you might try not using certain words in your reaction so as to prevent certain responses. Works both ways. Nice to have the nuke button I guess. If you are referring to a ban, then go ahead. I will respond if you want to insult. You allow certain posters around her to do to others what you are saying I did to you...but you don't react. Calling an honest post ridiculous is ridiculous.
 
I never said JL was good. As 10th graders, ratings go up and down. I hope he works out. If you want to criticize others opinions, you might try not using certain words in your reaction so as to prevent certain responses. Works both ways. Nice to have the nuke button I guess. If you are referring to a ban, then go ahead. I will respond if you want to insult. You allow certain posters around her to do to others what you are saying I did to you...but you don't react. Calling an honest post ridiculous is ridiculous.

I can't see everything on these boards. I do what I can to monitor them and be fair. Be responsible for your own actions.

If you want to be banned, just let me know. Question my integrity again and I'll make the decision for you.
 
I can't see everything on these boards. I do what I can to monitor them and be fair. Be responsible for your own actions.

If you want to be banned, just let me know. Question my integrity again and I'll make the decision for you.

What's the point Rob? If that's how you want to be, then so be it. I can't stop you. Don't call me ridiculous in the first place and this wouldn't have happened. Go ahead and allow some to tear up JB to the point of being personal but smack me when I poke you back when you poked first. OK.
 
What's the point Rob? If that's how you want to be, then so be it. I can't stop you. Don't call me ridiculous in the first place and this wouldn't have happened. Go ahead and allow some to tear up JB to the point of being personal but smack me when I poke you back when you poked first. OK.

You drew a parallel between the Lickliter and McCaffery situations. I stand by it being a ridiculous comment. I've posted the rankings by analysts other than me for the McCaffreys to illustrate it being ridiculous.

Here's the end game from this discussion: If you attack my credibility again, you're done here. Or, you can just ask to be banned or go away on your own if you can't comply. I'm fine with that, too.

I'm done. You've wasted enough of my time.
 
Valid points. I ridiculously disagree by what my eyes see.

I don't often see eye to eye with you and that's fine. No surprise here but I once again am dumbfounded by your opinions. Your evaluations on both Connor and Patrick are asinine. You say you disagree with 3 objective recruit rating agencies based on what your eyes see. I once knew a legally insane man that saw himself as a glass of orange juice when he looked into a mirror. He also believed what his eyes saw. I doubt you are legally insane so inferring a parallel would be rude. I do have to ask though what merit or relevance does your eye test provide? What credibility do you have to offer that anyone should take any stock in your opinions when they stray so far from bonafide expert concensus? You claim that Iowa kids could not hold their own against "inner city" schools. You have to see that this is a preposterous claim seemingly stemming from a cultural bias with possible racial undertones. The NBA Hall of Fame is dominated by players from rural areas, small towns or cities no bigger than Des Moines throughout the country. Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Jerry West, Michael Jordan, Bill Sharman, Charles Barkley, Magic Johnson, Jerry Lucas, Walt Bellamy, David Robinson, Karl Malone, Scottie Pippin, John Stockton, George Mikan, James Worthy, John Thompson, John Havliceking, Pete Maravich, Bill Walton, Kevin McHale, Joe Dumars, Alonzo Mourning, Spencer Haywood, and Allen Iverson. I assume all of these guys would have been exposed if they had only played against inner city high schools. They probably wouldn't have been recruited to play college ball or ever made the NBA HOF because of it.

I wonder where along the way as a self proclaimed Iowa Hawkeye fan you became so jaded. You habitually propound your negative points of view against both of our flagship athletic program's head coaches. You undermine their character with unfounded assertions just as you did with Rob Howe (Pattern..?) and as you will undoubtedly try do to me immediately after this post.

Your defamation of Rob's professional integrity with your tin foil conspiracy of collusion for inclusion is baseless and down right disrespectful. Rob may mention that he has "thick skin". I am sure that it has grown thick out of necessity after years of taking thousands of little cuts and jabbs from these forums. It's really simple. Rob is doing a job. Rob also is a fan of Iowa athletics. He has every right to be as optimistic about players or coaches as he wants. Some of the patrons of this website would prefer a sunny perspective vs the brand of doom and gloom that you push. Why don't you start your own website where you can criticize coaches and players to your hearts content. You can pump out scathing article after article. Then we can compare who's approach is more widely received.

Lastly, I know your game. Your dislike for Fran doesn't allow you to give proper credence to his sons/future hawks. It just wouldn't fit your world view.
 
I don't often see eye to eye with you and that's fine. No surprise here but I once again am dumbfounded by your opinions. Your evaluations on both Connor and Patrick are asinine. You say you disagree with 3 objective recruit rating agencies based on what your eyes see. I once knew a legally insane man that saw himself as a glass of orange juice when he looked into a mirror. He also believed what his eyes saw. I doubt you are legally insane so inferring a parallel would be rude. I do have to ask though what merit or relevance does your eye test provide? What credibility do you have to offer that anyone should take any stock in your opinions when they stray so far from bonafide expert concensus? You claim that Iowa kids could not hold their own against "inner city" schools. You have to see that this is a preposterous claim seemingly stemming from a cultural bias with possible racial undertones. The NBA Hall of Fame is dominated by players from rural areas, small towns or cities no bigger than Des Moines throughout the country. Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Jerry West, Michael Jordan, Bill Sharman, Charles Barkley, Magic Johnson, Jerry Lucas, Walt Bellamy, David Robinson, Karl Malone, Scottie Pippin, John Stockton, George Mikan, James Worthy, John Thompson, John Havliceking, Pete Maravich, Bill Walton, Kevin McHale, Joe Dumars, Alonzo Mourning, Spencer Haywood, and Allen Iverson. I assume all of these guys would have been exposed if they had only played against inner city high schools. They probably wouldn't have been recruited to play college ball or ever made the NBA HOF because of it.

I wonder where along the way as a self proclaimed Iowa Hawkeye fan you became so jaded. You habitually propound your negative points of view against both of our flagship athletic program's head coaches. You undermine their character with unfounded assertions just as you did with Rob Howe (Pattern..?) and as you will undoubtedly try do to me immediately after this post.

Your defamation of Rob's professional integrity with your tin foil conspiracy of collusion for inclusion is baseless and down right disrespectful. Rob may mention that he has "thick skin". I am sure that it has grown thick out of necessity after years of taking thousands of little cuts and jabbs from these forums. It's really simple. Rob is doing a job. Rob also is a fan of Iowa athletics. He has every right to be as optimistic about players or coaches as he wants. Some of the patrons of this website would prefer a sunny perspective vs the brand of doom and gloom that you push. Why don't you start your own website where you can criticize coaches and players to your hearts content. You can pump out scathing article after article. Then we can compare who's approach is more widely received.

Lastly, I know your game. Your dislike for Fran doesn't allow you to give proper credence to his sons/future hawks. It just wouldn't fit your world view.

You have a negative opinion of a lot of posters on here and get quite pointed. I have my reputation and you have yours. I think my evaluation was pretty fair of the player. You disagree. Rob is and was pretty capable of defending himself. To,will tell how FM's sons work out. My guess is that they will not be major contributors to a great team. That could take several paths. Any player that plays for 3 or 4 years has a decent probability of contributing as a senior and as they develop that may be the case.
 
The reason Iowa gets beat but inner city Schools is the talent up and down the roster. Not because the top players are so much better. I'll take the top player in Iowa every single year and take my chances.
 
The reason Iowa gets beat but inner city Schools is the talent up and down the roster. Not because the top players are so much better. I'll take the top player in Iowa every single year and take my chances.

Bingo!
 
You have a negative opinion of a lot of posters on here and get quite pointed. I have my reputation and you have yours. I think my evaluation was pretty fair of the player. You disagree. Rob is and was pretty capable of defending himself. To,will tell how FM's sons work out. My guess is that they will not be major contributors to a great team. That could take several paths. Any player that plays for 3 or 4 years has a decent probability of contributing as a senior and as they develop that may be the case.

Fair enough. I have said my piece and we know where each other stands. I do hope that you are able to move past your disdain for our football and basketball coaches. They might not be as effective as you would like them to be, but they are both good men, and good teachers that produce respectable student athletes for us to root for. They also do this while running the programs with a higher ethical standard than some, maybe even most. I do believe that you could gain more enjoyment from our sports programs if you accepted what Iowa is in the sporting world and just set your expectations in the middle. That being said I will eat your shoe on YouTube live if Connor ends up being in the bottom half of guards recruited in the 2017 class of all B1G schools, after his career at Iowa is over. With the caveat that my statement is null and void if Connor quits BBALL for Baseball.
 

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