Unwarranted pessimism

[hawkfarmer]

I have been reading a lot of posts about how bad McCaffery is at coaching, or how bad the players have been and honestly I don't like it (support your team people) but hey it's your opinion, but this morning I was talking to my dad and Iowa bball came up and he went off.

Now, my dad is a farmer, so naturally he's a pessimist. Anyway he was saying how it was coaching was terrible, how can you have a team play so well against Minny and then lay an egg at Nebby etc. He was laying it all on McCaffery's feet. Now, he did bring up some valid points that have been brought up here, such as JO's playing time, the rotation etc. However, I want to point out a few things:

1. McCaffery does not play defense or shoot the ball. He can't make them do it, only tell them. Now he could pull players, but I'm guessing it is not easy to find the best match every second of every game.

2. Iowa does not have elite or even pretty good talent, they have average to good talent, and the best talent are freshman. Marble is a good player, but not a stud McCabe and Basabe were recruited by nobody else. Aaron White could have gone to Akron I guess, and JO just can't shoot the ball. Gessel and Woody are freshman, yes they have played 28 games, and have a lot of experience this year, but that does not give you strength or develop parts of their game that will come in the next few years. This is huge, don't forget that there are no McD AA or barely any top 150 players on this team, and only one senior. Unless they are a top player they will need to develop to meet their potential, don't care who they are. I can't wait to watch the AW's and MG develop the next few years.

3. Recruiting will get better. I'm sure Fran would prefer to not have to play McCabe, Olaseni, JO a ton of minutes, but he needs a bench and that is what he has to work with. Deal with it

4. Expectations were created due to one year of recruiting and a few close games. I agree Iowa should have won a few more and yes coaching/players could have won those games, but they didn't so lets hope they finish strong and develop over the summer and have a great year next year.

 

[1hawkeye1]

I think every fanbase in the nation has these same gripes. You think Wisconsin is complaining, "We never should've lost to Iowa" ISU the same thing.

Every time there is a close loss, somebody screwed up and blame must be assessed. When there's a close win it was a terrific effort and everyone is doing a great job. That's the nature of the beast.

I for one, think FM is a terrific coach and I support him 100%. Do I scratch my head sometimes over substitution patterns and playing time? Yes. But I will defend him to the end.

 

[hawkfarmer]

I think every fanbase in the nation has these same gripes. You think Wisconsin is complaining, "We never should've lost to Iowa" ISU the same thing.

Every time there is a close loss, somebody screwed up and blame must be assessed. When there's a close win it was a terrific effort and everyone is doing a great job. That's the nature of the beast.

I for one, think FM is a terrific coach and I support him 100%. Do I scratch my head sometimes over substitution patterns and playing time? Yes. But I will defend him to the end.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Still doesn't make the mood swings acceptable in my opinion. the majority of us are adults and, hey Iowa sports are a huge part of my interests, but it should not affect your mood for long periods of time. Sure be upset about a loss, but let it go. I don't see reasons for blaming the players or the coaches, they are doing their best. I think people truly believe that Iowa has more talent than they truly do at this point and that is the issue.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

I have been reading a lot of posts about how bad McCaffery is at coaching, or how bad the players have been and honestly I don't like it (support your team people) but hey it's your opinion, but this morning I was talking to my dad and Iowa bball came up and he went off.

Now, my dad is a farmer, so naturally he's a pessimist. Anyway he was saying how it was coaching was terrible, how can you have a team play so well against Minny and then lay an egg at Nebby etc. He was laying it all on McCaffery's feet. Now, he did bring up some valid points that have been brought up here, such as JO's playing time, the rotation etc. However, I want to point out a few things:

1. McCaffery does not play defense or shoot the ball. He can't make them do it, only tell them. Now he could pull players, but I'm guessing it is not easy to find the best match every second of every game. This is the stock excuse that was used to defend Alford & Lick.. "They aren't the ones missing the shots, etc. etc." This is not a valid argument IMO because it's the coach's job to coach the players to do these things, AND to recruit players that are capable of doing them.

2. Iowa does not have elite or even pretty good talent, they have average to good talent, and the best talent are freshman. Marble is a good player, but not a stud McCabe and Basabe were recruited by nobody else. Aaron White could have gone to Akron I guess, and JO just can't shoot the ball. Gessel and Woody are freshman, yes they have played 28 games, and have a lot of experience this year, but that does not give you strength or develop parts of their game that will come in the next few years. This is huge, don't forget that there are no McD AA or barely any top 150 players on this team, and only one senior. Unless they are a top player they will need to develop to meet their potential, don't care who they are. I can't wait to watch the AW's and MG develop the next few years. True, Iowa has decent, but not great, overall talent, and a lack of experience in some areas. Our young players will only get better with experience. Sometimes it's amazing how much better players are when they're seniors. That said - with "barely any top 150 players on the team", that also means that recruiting has not been good. I can't say that's really all on Fran though, given what he inherited and the state the program was in when he was hired. Fran has gotten some good recruits as of late, so hopefully this will continue, and only get better as the program starts to win more.

3. Recruiting will get better. I'm sure Fran would prefer to not have to play McCabe, Olaseni, JO a ton of minutes, but he needs a bench and that is what he has to work with. Deal with it As you said, recruiting should be expected to improve now that the program is starting to play in post-seasons again, winning 20 games, etc. It had to be harder for Fran to recruit coming off of Lick's 10-win season than it is today.

4. Expectations were created due to one year of recruiting and a few close games. I agree Iowa should have won a few more and yes coaching/players could have won those games, but they didn't so lets hope they finish strong and develop over the summer and have a great year next year. Fair enough. IMO expectations should be there for a program near the end of year 3, and year 4 and beyond regardless, to be showing signs that it is turning the corner, and by year 4, should actually turn that corner. I'm with you - hopefully Fran and the team can build on this year and be better next year. And make the NCAA Tournament. I can't think of any valid excuse for lack of an NCAA bid next year, barring a team riddled with injuries. 4 years in, and Fran will have his own talent on campus with only 2 freshmen next year (or is Uthoff a soph? if so, only 1 - Jok), and Lick's "talent" will mostly be gone. The only exceptions are Marble and McCabe, who will be seniors. I don't think the youth argument will fly next season.

Some general thoughts above.

 

[1hawkeye1]

Yeah, I agree. People lose perspective because Iowa gets so damned close to winning then can't close the deal. It's the roller coaster of highs and lows that drives us all nuts!

 

[1977Hawkeye]

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Still doesn't make the mood swings acceptable in my opinion. the majority of us are adults and, hey Iowa sports are a huge part of my interests, but it should not affect your mood for long periods of time. Sure be upset about a loss, but let it go. I don't see reasons for blaming the players or the coaches, they are doing their best. I think people truly believe that Iowa has more talent than they truly do at this point and that is the issue.

I think the talent level is currently OK - not great. It's getting better, and is certainly better than it was about 2 years ago.

 

[DDThompson]

1. McCaffery has pulled players - quite a bit this season. Usually because of bone-headed or lazy defense.

2. Iowa has pretty good talent. What they lack is experience. The go-to guy was hurt for awhile. He's becoming the go-to guy again. Some go-to guy who was a good shooter, too, went and got himself graduated last year. A guy like that on the team and we're not talking about late game failures this season. At least not a half-dozen of them.

3. Those players aren't getting a ton of minutes. The problem has been the non-productivity of a lot of those minutes.

4. I agree with the sentiment.

 

[ILHawk]

Like any other coach he has flaws. Great talent masks bench coaching flaws. Alford and Davis were within a couple of players and breaks from being considered tremendous. Struggling programs get hit harder by bad breaks. Honestly could many coaches have survived some of the bad breaks Lick had?

Sometimes we contribute to our bad breaks. Maybe the 3 previous coaches contributed to that. Davis was an unfortunate death and his troubled assistant. Alford was primarily PP. Lick to a degree was a victim of circumstance, the wrong system for what he had, and letting his parenting get in the way...quite badly.

Fran may or may not be successful long term depending on how breaks pan out...good or bad. White is certainly a surprise. May this year a surprise. Woody's future is uncertain anyway you look at it. Maybe huge upside and maybe a bust. He's done what is needed to survive thus far. So far the players are behaving well (or at least in appearance). Lose one or two of the contributors and he's in trouble. Jok and the Wisky transfer may be huge positives or status quo. Recruiting is not looking stellar at this point, but maybe serviceable.

The one thing Fran has some control over that could undue him or make him is his on court passion. That can be positive. Anyone who is as frothy as he appears at times certainly has the ability to do something really stupid and cause an undoing.

No reason for out right pessimism. No reason for play Happy Days are Hear Again...yet.

 

[hawkfarmer]

Some general thoughts above.

I was going to argue point 2, but you did it with your point in #3, thanks. As far as #1 I doubt FM is sitting there and not saying, hey play some defense or how about we make some shots. They still have to execute that. I am not saying FM is perfect, because I don't believe that, but I don't think we should place the blame on him.

Really FM has only 2 classes. The juniors were half Lick's class, and really getting JO, was a big get when it happened as he was top 150. YOu have to start recruiting kids as freshman these days or you're too late to the game, and that is why i expect Fran to pick it up in the next year in recruiting. I think FM has done a fantastic job recruiting with the situation he came into. Talent will get better. Even next year the addition of Jok and development of everyone, only losing May, will upgrade our talent level in itself.

 

[hawkfarmer]

Like any other coach he has flaws. Great talent masks bench coaching flaws. Alford and Davis were within a couple of players and breaks from being considered tremendous. Struggling programs get hit harder by bad breaks. Honestly could many coaches have survived some of the bad breaks Lick had?

Sometimes we contribute to our bad breaks. Maybe the 3 previous coaches contributed to that. Davis was an unfortunate death and his troubled assistant. Alford was primarily PP. Lick to a degree was a victim of circumstance, the wrong system for what he had, and letting his parenting get in the way...quite badly.

Fran may or may not be successful long term depending on how breaks pan out...good or bad. White is certainly a surprise. May this year a surprise. Woody's future is uncertain anyway you look at it. Maybe huge upside and maybe a bust. He's done what is needed to survive thus far. So far the players are behaving well (or at least in appearance). Lose one or two of the contributors and he's in trouble. Jok and the Wisky transfer may be huge positives or status quo. Recruiting is not looking stellar at this point, but maybe serviceable.

The one thing Fran has some control over that could undue him or make him is his on court passion. That can be positive. Anyone who is as frothy as he appears at times certainly has the ability to do something really stupid and cause an undoing.

No reason for out right pessimism. No reason for play Happy Days are Hear Again...yet.

You bash recruiting often. What do you expect of Fran after 3 years in a system which won 10 games the year before he got there? Do you expect McD AA? because if you do there is no other word to describe you other than ludacris! he's increased the talent level immensely in only his second true class with AW and MG. Those are top 150 players. To me he has done an excellent job in recruiting. Also Uthoff was a top 150 player when he signed with Wisky.

Finally your hatred for Woody is pathetic. He's a 7' freshman center in the B1G. There are not many guys that can come in and play immediately. Look at Withey, he never played his first 3 years (including a red shirt) or that top 50 kid from Illinois that went pro last year, he was horrible his first year. Woody will develop, he just needs time.

 

[volhawk50]

I agree, farmer. The pessimism comes from people who, for some reason, cannot appreciate what Fran has done for us. I would expect Lickliter to be 10-17 at this point if he were still here. I can understand the criticisms of his lineups and substitutions, although that's very hard when you have no reliable standout player and a lot of players who have good potential but are very inconsistent. But I think any other criticism of Fran is no better than idiotic and asinine.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

I was going to argue point 2, but you did it with your point in #3, thanks. As far as #1 I doubt FM is sitting there and not saying, hey play some defense or how about we make some shots. They still have to execute that. I am not saying FM is perfect, because I don't believe that, but I don't think we should place the blame on him.

Really FM has only 2 classes. The juniors were half Lick's class, and really getting JO, was a big get when it happened as he was top 150. YOu have to start recruiting kids as freshman these days or you're too late to the game, and that is why i expect Fran to pick it up in the next year in recruiting. I think FM has done a fantastic job recruiting with the situation he came into. Talent will get better. Even next year the addition of Jok and development of everyone, only losing May, will upgrade our talent level in itself.

I agree with your point #1 from the viewpoint that Fran had the talent that he had to work with when he took over, so it was what it was. If the players weren't good enough to make shots, etc. then that is not on Fran because they were Lick's players. The first couple years or so, he really, more or less, had to make do with mediocre talent. What I was getting at is that eventually, when Fran has a roster full of his own players and they have some experience, it ultimately does fall on Fran's shoulders if the team isn't performing. Maybe it's coaching, recruiting, or a little of both. But hopefully that will not be the case, and the team will be winning, so that we don't have to debate it.

I agree that recruiting seems to be a business of building relationships, and to get the top High School recruits, you need to get in on them extremely early. Fran didn't have that opportunity early on. Fran seems to be doing fine as of late with getting the in-state talent (Woodbury, Jok and Gesell). I realize Gesell was S. Sioux City, NE, but that is practically Iowa. I grew up in Sioux City and South Sioux is just on the other side of the bridge, so I still consider Gesell to be a "local" recruit. With more on-court success, and if Iowa starts to build a reputation as a "good basketball program", he should be able to have more success going out of state.. Illinois, etc.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

I appreciate everything Fran has done. Very much so, but he isn't immune to criticism. No coach at this level is, they are paid a tons of money. I want Fran to be successful at Iowa and IMO he has the building blocks in place.

I just get very frustrated with his player rotations. There is one particular lineup this season that has really struggled and we see it most every game.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

You bash recruiting often. What do you expect of Fran after 3 years in a system which won 10 games the year before he got there? Do you expect McD AA? because if you do there is no other word to describe you other than ludacris! he's increased the talent level immensely in only his second true class with AW and MG. Those are top 150 players. To me he has done an excellent job in recruiting. Also Uthoff was a top 150 player when he signed with Wisky.

Finally your hatred for Woody is pathetic. He's a 7' freshman center in the B1G. There are not many guys that can come in and play immediately. Look at Withey, he never played his first 3 years (including a red shirt) or that top 50 kid from Illinois that went pro last year, he was horrible his first year. Woody will develop, he just needs time.

Top 100 I think, actually. In Woody's case, I think even Top 50. There are very few big men that can be all-conference guys as freshment, in THIS league in particular. That seems to come much easier for guards than it does centers. I'm going to guess it's more of a strength issue. Hopefully Woody hits the weights this off-season and comes back a much stronger player next year, because I think that will help him exponentially. In the end, I think he's going to be an excellent college player. Maybe one of the best true centers we've seen in a Hawkeye jersey in a LONG time.

 

[BrueCrew3]

Top 100 I think, actually. In Woody's case, I think even Top 50. There are very few big men that can be all-conference guys as freshment, in THIS league in particular. That seems to come much easier for guards than it does centers. I'm going to guess it's more of a strength issue. Hopefully Woody hits the weights this off-season and comes back a much stronger player next year, because I think that will help him exponentially. In the end, I think he's going to be an excellent college player. Maybe one of the best true centers we've seen in a Hawkeye jersey in a LONG time.

I agree completely.

GO HAWKS!!!

 

[BasketballMan]

I have been reading a lot of posts about how bad McCaffery is at coaching, or how bad the players have been and honestly I don't like it (support your team people) but hey it's your opinion, but this morning I was talking to my dad and Iowa bball came up and he went off.

Now, my dad is a farmer, so naturally he's a pessimist. Anyway he was saying how it was coaching was terrible, how can you have a team play so well against Minny and then lay an egg at Nebby etc. He was laying it all on McCaffery's feet. Now, he did bring up some valid points that have been brought up here, such as JO's playing time, the rotation etc. However, I want to point out a few things:

1. McCaffery does not play defense or shoot the ball. He can't make them do it, only tell them. Now he could pull players, but I'm guessing it is not easy to find the best match every second of every game.

2. Iowa does not have elite or even pretty good talent, they have average to good talent, and the best talent are freshman. Marble is a good player, but not a stud McCabe and Basabe were recruited by nobody else. Aaron White could have gone to Akron I guess, and JO just can't shoot the ball. Gessel and Woody are freshman, yes they have played 28 games, and have a lot of experience this year, but that does not give you strength or develop parts of their game that will come in the next few years. This is huge, don't forget that there are no McD AA or barely any top 150 players on this team, and only one senior. Unless they are a top player they will need to develop to meet their potential, don't care who they are. I can't wait to watch the AW's and MG develop the next few years.

3. Recruiting will get better. I'm sure Fran would prefer to not have to play McCabe, Olaseni, JO a ton of minutes, but he needs a bench and that is what he has to work with. Deal with it

4. Expectations were created due to one year of recruiting and a few close games. I agree Iowa should have won a few more and yes coaching/players could have won those games, but they didn't so lets hope they finish strong and develop over the summer and have a great year next year.

You need to stick to having discussions with your Dad about farming. Not basketball.

 

[ILHawk]

You bash recruiting often. What do you expect of Fran after 3 years in a system which won 10 games the year before he got there? Do you expect McD AA? because if you do there is no other word to describe you other than ludacris! he's increased the talent level immensely in only his second true class with AW and MG. Those are top 150 players. To me he has done an excellent job in recruiting. Also Uthoff was a top 150 player when he signed with Wisky.

Finally your hatred for Woody is pathetic. He's a 7' freshman center in the B1G. There are not many guys that can come in and play immediately. Look at Withey, he never played his first 3 years (including a red shirt) or that top 50 kid from Illinois that went pro last year, he was horrible his first year. Woody will develop, he just needs time.

Your comment is pathetic. Stating what is true is not bashing. He lacks certain fundamentals and quickness and could go either way. Stick to farming.

His recruiting is unknown and is not stellar. I neither gloated about it or bashed it. My residence doesn't make me an Illini fan, but IL has had several coaches (Kruger and Self) come in and do things right away without getting into trouble and put together stellar recruiting classes.

This is a discussion forum for discussing. Hope you don't ever say, the ground is dry and we need rain. Don't bash your corn crop.

 

[clicheusername3]

I have been reading a lot of posts about how bad McCaffery is at coaching, or how bad the players have been and honestly I don't like it (support your team people) but hey it's your opinion, but this morning I was talking to my dad and Iowa bball came up and he went off.

Now, my dad is a farmer, so naturally he's a pessimist. Anyway he was saying how it was coaching was terrible, how can you have a team play so well against Minny and then lay an egg at Nebby etc. He was laying it all on McCaffery's feet. Now, he did bring up some valid points that have been brought up here, such as JO's playing time, the rotation etc. However, I want to point out a few things:

1. McCaffery does not play defense or shoot the ball. He can't make them do it, only tell them. Now he could pull players, but I'm guessing it is not easy to find the best match every second of every game.

Why even have a coach at all if they can't make a difference in this area?

2. Iowa does not have elite or even pretty good talent, they have average to good talent, and the best talent are freshman. Marble is a good player, but not a stud McCabe and Basabe were recruited by nobody else. Aaron White could have gone to Akron I guess, and JO just can't shoot the ball. Gessel and Woody are freshman, yes they have played 28 games, and have a lot of experience this year, but that does not give you strength or develop parts of their game that will come in the next few years. This is huge, don't forget that there are no McD AA or barely any top 150 players on this team, and only one senior. Unless they are a top player they will need to develop to meet their potential, don't care who they are. I can't wait to watch the AW's and MG develop the next few years.

Maybe Fran should get better players.

3. Recruiting will get better. I'm sure Fran would prefer to not have to play McCabe, Olaseni, JO a ton of minutes, but he needs a bench and that is what he has to work with. Deal with it

Through no one's fault but his own.

4. Expectations were created due to one year of recruiting and a few close games. I agree Iowa should have won a few more and yes coaching/players could have won those games, but they didn't so lets hope they finish strong and develop over the summer and have a great year next year.

Full circle.

 

[hawkfarmer]

You need to stick to having discussions with your Dad about farming. Not basketball.

Clever

Your comment is pathetic. Stating what is true is not bashing. He lacks certain fundamentals and quickness and could go either way. Stick to farming.

His recruiting is unknown and is not stellar. I neither gloated about it or bashed it. My residence doesn't make me an Illini fan, but IL has had several coaches (Kruger and Self) come in and do things right away without getting into trouble and put together stellar recruiting classes.

This is a discussion forum for discussing. Hope you don't ever say, the ground is dry and we need rain. Don't bash your corn crop.

1. Those are completely different circumstances. But good try. I won't discuss farming with you as I'm sure you have no clue. And complaining about a basketball team is not the same as worrying about something that affects your livelihood.

2. Bill Self didn't take over a program in Iowa's state. Also, he did not turn it around immediately. It took a little time. And I expect Iowa to recruit better players each year, but it is going to take some time.

I just think your expectations are far to high for FM and the program at this point in time. I think you are overly critical of an 18 year old freshman center. Very very few kids play that position as a freshman. he needs to get stronger and that will help, and if he can develop and 10-15 ft shot he'll be a stud.

 

[ILHawk]

Clever



1. Those are completely different circumstances. But good try. I won't discuss farming with you as I'm sure you have no clue. And complaining about a basketball team is not the same as worrying about something that affects your livelihood.

2. Bill Self didn't take over a program in Iowa's state. Also, he did not turn it around immediately. It took a little time. And I expect Iowa to recruit better players each year, but it is going to take some time.

I just think your expectations are far to high for FM and the program at this point in time. I think you are overly critical of an 18 year old freshman center. Very very few kids play that position as a freshman. he needs to get stronger and that will help, and if he can develop and 10-15 ft shot he'll be a stud.

I was strictly analyzing and have you taken and passed the CCA? Can you predict the price of corn for fall given current stocks, projected trend yields and use? Most farmers aren't...and can't. Do you want help determining you machinery costs per acre?

Self did it pretty fast, but the cupboard wasn't bare due to Kruger...give you that one.

The discussions are the same. I don't hate Woody. I wish him well. Btw, why is a top 50 recruit working on a jump shot as you describe? I hope you are right about him. I strictly said it was an unknown. His hand and arm positions on rebounding and defense are the most concerning things. Poor fundamentals but should be easy to clean up...by the end of year 1. Habits are hard to break when you didn't really need to learn it properly.

By the way, I would sure be sandbagging my revenue if we get a trend line yield. Crop insurance deadline is fast approaching. Get the harvest price option. If your farm tracks with or better than the county, GRIP at 90% with 100% protection is not a bad option either