When you come into a meeting to sign a peace deal in front of cameras and then say peace won't work, you deserve to be yelled at in front of cameras.
Trump supporters, how do you square this?
- Thread starter CP87
- Start date
SCHawkeye2
Well-Known Member
no.its not debatable
"Overthrew" is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting there. Bottom line, Putin doesn't get to decide the fate of a sovereign nation. There was never a treaty forbidding NATO eastward expansion, and previous Russian presidents stated that NATO was not a threat to Russia. In its entire history, NATO has never launched an offensive against a non-NATO country.
Russia, on the other hand, has launched multiple offensive operations since Putin came to power (Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea), as well as provided military assistance to rebel groups in Abkhazia and Ukraine. It is logical that former Soviet republics might have an interest in seeking the protection of NATO. The majority of Ukraine citizens were against joining NATO prior to the 2014, but public sentiment has changed quickly since the 2014 annexation of Crimea.
You are drinking Putin propaganda straight from the hose.
Ukraine: the history behind Russia’s claim that Nato promised not to expand to the east
Russia insists that there was an agreement not to expand Nato eastwards after the end of the USSR. History begs to differ.
theconversation.com
The story that part of the agreement between Ronald Reagan and Gorbachof tearing down the Berlin wall was that NATO couldn't expand east might be a made up story, but it's not Russian propaganda. It's American propaganda if anything."Overthrew" is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting there. Bottom line, Putin doesn't get to decide the fate of a sovereign nation. There was never a treaty forbidding NATO eastward expansion, and previous Russian presidents stated that NATO was not a threat to Russia. In its entire history, NATO has never launched an offensive against a non-NATO country.
Russia, on the other hand, has launched multiple offensive operations since Putin came to power (Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea), as well as provided military assistance to rebel groups in Abkhazia and Ukraine. It is logical that former Soviet republics might have an interest in seeking the protection of NATO. The majority of Ukraine citizens were against joining NATO prior to the 2014, but public sentiment has changed quickly since the 2014 annexation of Crimea.
You are drinking Putin propaganda straight from the hose.
Ukraine: the history behind Russia’s claim that Nato promised not to expand to the east
Russia insists that there was an agreement not to expand Nato eastwards after the end of the USSR. History begs to differ.
Putin absolutely can decide the fate of sovereign nations if he's powerful enough to do it and other countries don't help stop him. Whether it's right or wrong doesn't matter. The thing that matters is how far we are willing to go to help. I think if it's a border dispute let them figure it out. If he's trying to overthrow the country, we should help in at least some capacity. Putin says it's a border dispute. We should take him at his word until he proves otherwise. Judging be the last 80 years of war history goes, we all know how this ends. With America eventually bailing after severe cost of money and death.
Yep. Every country has propaganda except the US.
SCHawkeye2
Well-Known Member
Trump supporters 'how do you square this?"
www.motherjones.com
SEC halts fraud prosecution of Chinese crypto bro whose purchases enriched Trump
Justin Sun's token buys have reportedly earned the president more than $50 million.
www.motherjones.com
Crypto is insider market trading on crack. I just hope it has another bull run in it and I get out at the right time.Trump supporters 'how do you square this?"
SEC halts fraud prosecution of Chinese crypto bro whose purchases enriched Trump
Justin Sun's token buys have reportedly earned the president more than $50 million.
Did anyone ever listen to the Putin interview with Tucker Carlson? He gave a ridiculously long history lesson on the region he's fighting for and why it technically belongs to Russia. I have absolutely no dog in that fight and could not possibly care less if he's lying. In 2014, Obama said it had nothing to do with us tho, so there is that.
This is just the next money laundering war scheme guys. The next weapons of mass destruction. In 20 years, Republicans will probably be praising the next war saying it's nothing like this one while democrats go back to hating war again. It's just a big game they play.
This is just the next money laundering war scheme guys. The next weapons of mass destruction. In 20 years, Republicans will probably be praising the next war saying it's nothing like this one while democrats go back to hating war again. It's just a big game they play.
I wonder if the people who didn't want to be fighting a war in Vietnam got called the equivalent of a Putin puppet back in the day. Has that always been the go to for people who are pro war at the time to belittle the people who want peace? Or is that a relatively new catch phrase?
I would guess that is pretty typical. And all war is terrible, but sometimes it is the right thing to do. I think we often don't know fully until hindsight is available.
The US had a bunch of failed attempts at "nation building", and we can use those historical lessons to try to avoid similar future endeavors. Hopefully there was also a lesson learned from the failed "appeasement" strategy pre-WWII...I think that is the more apt comparison most are drawing upon when looking at this conflict.
So this is a video of a Democrat senator talking about the US involvement in helping change government un Ukraine. He is trying to say your side of this but sounds an awful lot like my side. My side is the US has been involved with changing the government of Ukraine since 2014 and antagonizing Russia more and more.
And again, whether Russia is right or wrong in what they're doing doesn't really matter because they are doing it and we had to know they would do it before we even got involved. This is a decade long scripted plot by our government. There are no putin puppets here. Ukraine has been the United State's puppet. Again, very similar to our past wars that always end in us leaving with nothing accomplished. The hindsight you talk about will almost certainly lump this war in with Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, and Iraq.
I do seriously suggest everyone watch that 5 minute video. Again, it's a guy from your side saying everything he thinks people want to hear.
Another video talking about the events in 2014. All of this stuff if true (I do get that it's possible these are all AI fake videos to trick people) lays out how the US helped do a coop against the elected Ukrainian government. If we did, of course that was going to be the response of Russia. And again, this doesn't justify what Russia has done. It just puts context to it. The left's narrative right now is that Russia is trying to expand hos country again and bring back the old soviet union. If that's true, it makes some sense we are getting involved. But if all of the stuff in these videos are true (the first one almost certainly is) then this isn't about expansion. If it's not about expansion, then what the hell are we doing?
Also we the people don't know until hindsight. But the people starting these wars absolutely know/knew before hindsight.
There are two options. This is either all true or it's all a lie. I choose to believe it's true because I have the benifit of hindsight from all of the past wars. If it's all a lie, then this war is an outlier from the other ones. If it's true, it's just the next step with the military industrial complex.