Trump supporters, how do you square this?

[PCHawk]

I know I have a lot of students who voted for Trump, especially young males.

They are young enough that most will live to the point where history has judged this era. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think history will judge Trump and his administration kindly. I think a lot about how these students are going to look back at their choice 50 years down the road.

I think the hardest thing for these individuals to reconcile about Trump will not be specific policies or even corruption, but the overall cruelty and moral rot.

Maybe I'm wrong...not sure if I will live long enough for historians to take a truly unbiased look at this era, so I guess maybe I never find out.

I'm almost 48 and I've never had a conversation in my life where someone said "I've lived to regret a vote I made when I was young". Look back at JFK. His personal life with womanizing is probably worse than Trump's. History doesn't care. Trump would actually have to be Hitler for your students to live to regret their vote. I get what you're saying here. I just think things would have to get really really bad for it to matter to your students.

 

[PCHawk]

I don't disagree with this, but there's a very fine line between "helping" and exploiting a country in need of assistance with the intent on benefitting from tragedy.

Absolutely. I think break even is that line. The further you get away from that break even line in either direction, the more one side was taken advantage of.

 

[Hay Man]

I'm almost 48 and I've never had a conversation in my life where someone said "I've lived to regret a vote I made when I was young". Look back at JFK. His personal life with womanizing is probably worse than Trump's. History doesn't care. Trump would actually have to be Hitler for your students to live to regret their vote. I get what you're saying here. I just think things would have to get really really bad for it to matter to your students.

Isn't that the whataboutism you don't like?

 

[Hay Man]

Also a big difference is that most of the women JFK was with "wanted" to sleep with him.

Sorry, had to do it

 

[Fryowa]

Whats funny is you got completely confused at my original "prime" land comment and turned it into something completely different and argued on that with a bunch of stuff I already knew but was irrelevant to what I originally said. Then you take little jabs like "if you knew about the history" when the history didn't even have anything to do with what we were talking about.

Okie doke man. I’m kinda over debating with you because it’s just too far in left field. If you think the Gaza Strip has great potential good on ya. I’m glad you used your critical thinking and made your mind up. Read some history books on Israel and the Middle East, it’s unbelievably interesting and you’ll learn a ton. I’ll even send you some physical copies if you want.

 

[PCHawk]

I'm not going to come out and say its a cult, but from a political standpoint its the unhealthiest following I've ever seen. Trump stores, shoes, bibles, mugshot shirts, attempted assassination shirts and the list goes on and on. I've honestly seen nothing like it. IMO it's gross and goes way beyond passionate and falls right into the creepy and disturbing category. I've never seen anything like it and hope I don't.

He's selling a story of standing up to the government. That's a very popular story to sell. If he accomplishes what he says he's trying to accomplish (I understand that's a big if) then it would be tough not to call him one of the greatest presidents ever. No one else even says they're going to try to do what he's saying he's going to do. And two weeks in, he's following through with it.

Pretty much all super powers end with government corruption. And to me, it makes perfect sense why it happens. Of course a government is going to start small and grow from there. The longer a country stays a country, the bigger the government will get. It just keeps adding more agencies and more people to each agency until it eventually gets so big its impossible to keep in check. In an environment like that, with so much money to be made, corruption is going to happen. Our country is on a crash course to implode. If someone doesn't do what Trump says he's going to do, I'd give us 50-100 years tops. I get that you might not think that's where we are headed. But a lot of people do. And right now, Trump is the only one who can stop it because he's the only one who even pretends to want to.

So basically there's two options here. One is he's full of shit and he's really just trying to get even more wealthy. If that's the case, we are in the same boat we were in before Trump anyways. A crash course to implosion. The other option is he's actually trying to straighten things out before it's too late. If that's the case, he will either succeed or fail. If he succeeds, then everyone will eventually know it. We will lose our national debt. Taxes will be lowered astronomically, and everything will run smoother. If he fails, then he will go down as a villain in US history because the people writing history will be the ones he tried to take down.

 

[Fryowa]

Isn't that the whataboutism you don't like?

You’re wasting your time with that dude. I had to check out.

 

[PCHawk]

Quick poll for the crowd:

Is the Earth round or flat?

Look at the moon. Flat earth is a conspiracy invented by people who want to belittle conspiracy theorists to silence them.

 

[Hay Man]

Pretty much all super powers end with government corruption. And to me, it makes perfect sense why it happens. Of course a government is going to start small and grow from there. The longer a country stays a country, the bigger the government will get. It just keeps adding more agencies and more people to each agency until it eventually gets so big its impossible to keep in check. In an environment like that, with so much money to be made, corruption is going to happen. Our country is on a crash course to implode. If someone doesn't do what Trump says he's going to do, I'd give us 50-100 years tops. I get that you might not think that's where we are headed. But a lot of people do. And right now, Trump is the only one who can stop it because he's the only one who even pretends to want to.

So basically there's two options here. One is he's full of shit and he's really just trying to get even more wealthy. If that's the case, we are in the same boat we were in before Trump anyways. A crash course to implosion. The other option is he's actually trying to straighten things out before it's too late. If that's the case, he will either succeed or fail. If he succeeds, then everyone will eventually know it. We will lose our national debt. Taxes will be lowered astronomically, and everything will run smoother. If he fails, then he will go down as a villain in US history because the people writing history will be the ones he tried to take down.

That's cult like thinking right there.

 

[PCHawk]

Isn't that the whataboutism you don't like?

Actually that was giving a comparison. And I like whataboutism. I hate being called out for it because the person doing the calling out is always trying to justify being a hypocrite.

 

[Hay Man]

Actually that was giving a comparison. And I like whataboutism. I hate being called out for it because the person doing the calling out is always trying to justify being a hypocrite.

Enjoy the cult. Hoping for the best for you.

 

[PCHawk]

That's cult like thinking right there.

You mean me or the people I'm talking about?

 

[justwinbaby]

I'm not going to come out and say its a cult, but from a political standpoint its the unhealthiest following I've ever seen. Trump stores, shoes, bibles, mugshot shirts, attempted assassination shirts and the list goes on and on. I've honestly seen nothing like it. IMO it's gross and goes way beyond passionate and falls right into the creepy and disturbing category. I've never seen anything like it and hope I don't.

There’s definitely something weird about the fanaticism of too many of Trump’s supporters.

 

[PCHawk]

Okie doke man. I’m kinda over debating with you because it’s just too far in left field. If you think the Gaza Strip has great potential good on ya. I’m glad you used your critical thinking and made your mind up. Read some history books on Israel and the Middle East, it’s unbelievably interesting and you’ll learn a ton. I’ll even send you some physical copies if you want.

What does history have to do with my opinion on the chunk of land Israel gave the Palestinians? You have just completely brain farted the original context of what I was saying in the beginning and now you can't catch up. The not catching up is understandable because this conversation got out of hand. But again, all you did was somehow completely changed the context of what I said in your own head and went off on a rant about history.

It's not that hard. They were in a war. A two state system was decided that they both agreed on (reluctantly). Land was divided (unfairly size wise). My only point was with all of that, at least Palestine got some prime real estate. The point of that is because everyone knows prime real estate is non land locked real estate. That's a fact and that's all I was saying.

Their history on how they got there has zero relevance on how "prime" that land is. Knowing they both feel like they are entitled to all the land has zero relevance on how prime that land is. How much land they have compared to how many people they have has zero relevance on how prime that land is. Bordering Israel and Egypt has no relevance on how prime that land is (because unless they wanted to completely leave the area, their land has to border Israel and Egypt). All of that is relevant to a discussion of what's happening in that region. But once again, it has zero relevance to the comment "they got some prime land at least". That comment was more so to say at least they didn't say "see that barren land between those two sand dunes, that's yours now". That's all it meant, and it's true. Them you come in with meaningless history lessons.

And once again, Trump wants to turn it into something. Why would he want to do that if it didn't have potential? Since you know so much about their land, I'd still like you to answer which part of the old Israel is better land that they could have given them? And why is that land better than the land at Gaza?

 

[Fryowa]

What does history have to do with my opinion on the chunk of land Israel gave the Palestinians? You have just completely brain farted the original context of what I was saying in the beginning and now you can't catch up. The not catching up is understandable because this conversation got out of hand. But again, all you did was somehow completely changed the context of what I said in your own head and went off on a rant about history.

It's not that hard. They were in a war. A two state system was decided that they both agreed on (reluctantly). Land was divided (unfairly size wise). My only point was with all of that, at least Palestine got some prime real estate. The point of that is because everyone knows prime real estate is non land locked real estate. That's a fact and that's all I was saying.

Their history on how they got there has zero relevance on how "prime" that land is. Knowing they both feel like they are entitled to all the land has zero relevance on how prime that land is. How much land they have compared to how many people they have has zero relevance on how prime that land is. Bordering Israel and Egypt has no relevance on how prime that land is (because unless they wanted to completely leave the area, their land has to border Israel and Egypt). All of that is relevant to a discussion of what's happening in that region. But once again, it has zero relevance to the comment "they got some prime land at least". That comment was more so to say at least they didn't say "see that barren land between those two sand dunes, that's yours now". That's all it meant, and it's true. Them you come in with meaningless history lessons.

And once again, Trump wants to turn it into something. Why would he want to do that if it didn't have potential? Since you know so much about their land, I'd still like you to answer which part of the old Israel is better land that they could have given them? And why is that land better than the land at Gaza?

You must’ve missed the part about me being done with this. I don’t have a burning desire to get you to see things my way. Knock yourself out. I’m good with my opinion, be good with yours.

 

[PCHawk]

I don't believe that for a minute. Not saying you're wrong, but i completely disagree. To many of us, and I use "us" meaning not necessarily democrats but rather those that didn't vote republican, some of us would have voted republican around if it were anyone other then Trump running. For those of us that despise Trump, myself included, I have absolutely no issue saying that I don't think there could be a nominee more despised then Trump. I can speak only for myself, but I despised who the way he handled himself as a President for 4 years and that disapproval only grew the 4 years Biden was in power and Trump was doing his things on the sidelines.

I may disagree with a republican and where they stand on issues, but Trump is one of the few people that I can honestly say I despised prior to him getting into office. As I said I won't speak for others, but I would have absolutely no problems voting for a republican regardless of what the media paints them as. To be honest I disagree, because in Trump's case its not only about politics, but more the fact that I see him as a disgusting human being and someone in no way shape or form as a leader of anyone. So when you the next guy may be "labeled worse then Trump" they may come across that way, but I'd be shocked if they're any where close.

I think you misunderstood what I was staying. I meant the media and all democrats will do everything they can to convince the public that the new guy is worse than Trump. I wasn't saying it will work on everyone. I was just saying that will be the message. And I am saying it will certainly work on some people.

 

[PCHawk]

But it's the media telling you to hate him, right??? Not his words and actions.

I'm right there with you on this one.

Do you disagree that if you dislike a guy, media coverage in no way shape or form could get you to hate a guy? Or if you already hate a guy, media coverage could in no way shape or form get you to venomously hate a guy. Or say you like a guy, media coverage could in no way shape or form get you to love a guy? I get that people always love taking everything to the extreme. Bit I'm not saying Trump is a guy you would live but the media makes you hate him. All I'm saying is the media coverage can help skew opinions some. Is that really something you can argue against?

 

[PCHawk]

I understand the constant negative media coverage and as we know he could give two shits what people think about him. The problem is no matter kind of coverage he's getting he's 100% responsible for how conducts himself. I've got 3 kids under the age of 15 and my number one goal is to raise them from children into respectable and successful adults. So you're absolutely right that constant "negative media coverage" does have an impact, but so IMO morals, decency and simply a code of morals or ethics do to.
The President is the most powerful guy in the world and whether we agree or disagree with him he should be looked up to and given respect. That said, I can't and simply will not respect someone that lacks compassion, sympathy, and simply behaves like a spoiled child. That's not anything I want my kids to be. Sure some of that is brought on by the media, but look past that and look at how he acts and what he says when it isn't being flipped around. The guy shows zero respect for any political opponent, has absolutely no loyalty to anyone who has a different opinion, no issues attacking people based on race, ethnicity, gender, etc, is the definition of a hypocrite, and a criminal on top of it (whether we want to hold him accountable for such crimes as president or not)... it's disgusting. So while you were able to come around and say "he's kind of a douche but I like his policies" I see a disgusting excuse of a human who has no business being the face of our country, because there is nothing about him that I'd want my kids seeing in a person of power.

The difference between him and others whether right or wrong is they all may be corrupt, but some hide who they are in public while he puts it on display like its something to be proud of.

I've got no problem with this take at all. I even agree with it. But my point still stands that if he was a Democrat and the media treated him with kids gloves by ignoring everything bad he says and spinning everything into something good (like they did with Biden) your complete disdain would at minimum be slightly less. Of course it would be because you would only be hearing positive things.

Now imagine if there was 24/7 coverage of Ashley Biden's diary, coverage exposing "the big guy" every time you turned on your TV, and coverage of Tara Reade interviews. Imagine they show constant clips of every time Biden snapped at reporters (there's been plenty of those).

Now also imagine what Trump's demeanor would be like if the media constantly praised him and said how awesome he was? That alone would knock off 3/4 of the bad shit Trump has said over the years. What it would t do is erase the low blows to other political opponents he's said to guys like Cruz and McCain.

Obviously this is an impossible experiment, but it would be so interesting to be able to go back 10 years and have the media talk up Trump the whole time and talk own Hillary and Biden. Then go back and see everyone's personal opinion of those three. I bet every single person in the country on a scale of 1 -10 would give a different number on what they think of Trump. And like I said earlier, it's not like the number would go from a 1 to a 10. But it would most certainly move.

All that said, don't forget I completely agree with your last post.

 

[PCHawk]

You must’ve missed the part about me being done with this. I don’t have a burning desire to get you to see things my way. Knock yourself out. I’m good with my opinion, be good with yours.

There's nothing wrong with your opinion and I pretty much agree with it. It just weirdly didn't even fit into the discussion you were trying to talk about.

 

[HawkIowa44]

Hey at least it's the FBI. The left completely trusts them.

Let’s get the facts straight first. Trump’s Attorney General Pam Bondi eliminated the Foreign Influence Task Force - the FBI team responsible for combating foreign meddling in US elections. The FBI didn’t do it, Trump did. Wonder why????