Trump supporters, how do you square this?

kicker22 said:
The problem is if it were an isolated incident or a one time thing, I'd be ok with it. This is a President that knows he's always going to be watched, has a history of going after the media (which right or wrong doesn't help him one bit), and is famous for going on rants about how smart he is. But here we are, time and time again where it seems like there should be a countdown during any time he's being a camera (tragedy or not) where you just instantly know its coming. So when it happens over and over the way it does, how can you say without a doubt it truly is empathic and not a way of him to simply transition into one of his rants. Someone who thinks they're that smart can't truly be that stupid.
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Thats a very fair point. He got so much notoriety and popularity for his brashness on The Apprentice. I'm not sure if that's who he really was or if he was playing it up for the drama of the show. Either way, he's trying to run the country the same way he ran that show. You can definitely argue that it's not a good idea. But you can also argue that there are worse traits for a president to have. That same brashness that comes off as bad in a situation like that tragedy can come off as good in a meeting with foreign leaders.
 
PCHawk said:
One other agreement against the possibility that they are getting Trump now to establish a new future that politicians aren't above the law. Democrats spent the last year plus making the argument that if Trump tries to hold anyone accountable, it will be solely for revenge purposes. Then to make matters worse, Biden pardoned everyone to make sure no one had a chance to be held accountable if they did something wrong. That doesn't make me very confident that our government was just trying to turn a new leaf .
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You don't think it's a revenge ploy for Trump to take 4-star general Milley and a few other's security detail away and then starting an investigation into him to remove a star? Milley has done 1,000,000 times more good for the country than Trump and Hegseth combined. It's petty revenge.
 
Hay Man said:
You don't think it's a revenge ploy for Trump to take 4-star general Milley and a few other's security detail away and then starting an investigation into him to remove a star? Milley has done 1,000,000 times more good for the country than Trump and Hegseth combined. It's petty revenge.
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Good men will suffer at the hands of the suckers and losers President. You could ask General Milley, General Kelly, General Mattis, Lieutenant H.R. McMaster, Lieutenant Mark Esper, General Stanley McChrystal, Navy Admiral Mike Mullen and Navy Admiral James Stavridis. They have all gone on the record. But I'm sure it's all untrue, right?
 
Gibsonian said:
For you it does I know. You have a habit of sugarcoating all of Trump's disturbing behaviors. I know that a 50 year 4 star Republican Marine General who enlisted during the Vietnam War, lost his son serving , wouldn't serve in the WH after his military career was up only to make up lies so disturbing about a President that he served and then tell the world. Why would he do this? Only people in a cult could decide that the same 5 time draft dodger said about John McCain that he preferred soldiers that didn't get caught was telling the truth here and the General just decided to make up a hideous lie and tell Americans about it. The same guy that insulted the Gold Star family of a slain soldier. James Mattis another distinguished General who got to know Trump as he served under him said he was a threat to our Constitution. No one leaves service of a President and says these things, ever, until Trump. I cannot view all of this thru the rose colored glasses that you wear. When I look at a pig I see a pig
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So now Trump is pausing tarrifs for a month because Mexico is agreeing to send 10k troops to their border to prevent fentanyl from coming over the border. To me that sounds like a good thing. But unfortunately before we can celebrate, we are going to need a ruling from Fry on whether this news matters or not. I saw notification to a news article about it, which is good. But unfortunately five minutes earlier I saw a tweet from Trump on X talking about it. So since I saw something on X first, does this news count Fry?
 
PCHawk said:
At first I was going to agree with your first point and respond by saying something along the lines of as long as what they are doing is establishing a new presidence for the future that crime won't be allowed, then I'm ok with it. But the more I think about it, I don't think I agree. I think you're basically saying is there's no way we could charge a president for a huge crime in the future unless we charge one with a smaller crimes first. I don't think I can agree with that.

One other agreement against the possibility that they are getting Trump now to establish a new future that politicians aren't above the law. Democrats spent the last year plus making the argument that if Trump tries to hold anyone accountable, it will be solely for revenge purposes. Then to make matters worse, Biden pardoned everyone to make sure no one had a chance to be held accountable if they did something wrong. That doesn't make me very confident that our government was just trying to turn a new leaf .
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I think in my scenario you could remove Trump and insert any future President. I'm saying we all know "laws" don't apply to politicians, but you said it would have to be a big event or "holy shit" moment. I'm saying at the rate it seems to be going what's going to be that moment that shocks everyone when we're approaching that point where TBH it simply doesn't surprise anyone any more. I honestly don't know what that moment would be as it this point it seems like everything else gets swept under the rug so what's one more thing.
 
Hay Man said:
You don't think it's a revenge ploy for Trump to take 4-star general Milley and a few other's security detail away and then starting an investigation into him to remove a star? Milley has done 1,000,000 times more good for the country than Trump and Hegseth combined. It's petty revenge.
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I can easily see how it looks like it from the outside, and for all I know it is. It's also possible that Trump knows more about it than us and Milley is corrupt to the core. I'm not going to pretend I'm sure which one it is.
 
PCHawk said:
So now Trump is pausing tarrifs for a month because Mexico is agreeing to send 10k troops to their border to prevent fentanyl from coming over the border. To me that sounds like a good thing. But unfortunately before we can celebrate, we are going to need a ruling from Fry on whether this news matters or not. I saw notification to a news article about it, which is good. But unfortunately five minutes earlier I saw a tweet from Trump on X talking about it. So since I saw something on X first, does this news count Fry?
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This is a Good THING
 
kicker22 said:
I think in my scenario you could remove Trump and insert any future President. I'm saying we all know "laws" don't apply to politicians, but you said it would have to be a big event or "holy shit" moment. I'm saying at the rate it seems to be going what's going to be that moment that shocks everyone when we're approaching that point where TBH it simply doesn't surprise anyone any more. I honestly don't know what that moment would be as it this point it seems like everything else gets swept under the rug so what's one more thing.
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Yea I completely get that. I just can't help but wonder what the motives were for going after Trump when everything else gets swept under the rug. It was either the first time a president broke a law (I think we both agree it wasn't), it was worse than an crime that was let go in the past (I can't imagine this is the case), or it was a political prosecution (when people campaigned on the slogan "I'm going to get Trump" and then go after him, I gotta assume this is what happened).
 
kicker22 said:
It's a good thing that should have been discussed prior to him imposing such tariff's. Same with Canada there is zero reason to tariff them and IMO it's absolutely ridiculous to act shocked and offended that Canada would issue retaliatory tariff's back at us.
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Using trade for negotiating is for whatever reason something America hasn't done, and now we are 34 trillion in debt. When Trump says Russia would have never invaded if he was president, he means he would have used the threat of our economy to prevent it. That's the best and least deadly way to get what you want from another country and we are dangerously close to losing that ability. I see Trump using it now as a good thing.

That said, not sure of all the ins and outs of why he's going after Canada. I've heard it's for border reasons and I've heard they've been taking advantage of us with trade deals forever. As long as he's doing it for a good reason (which can be debatable) I'm good with it. And as far as Mexico goes, it sounds like Trump has been on them about helping fix the border for a long time. It sounds like Mexico wasn't complying.
 
PCHawk said:
Yea I completely get that. I just can't help but wonder what the motives were for going after Trump when everything else gets swept under the rug. It was either the first time a president broke a law (I think we both agree it wasn't), it was worse than an crime that was let go in the past (I can't imagine this is the case), or it was a political prosecution (when people campaigned on the slogan "I'm going to get Trump" and then go after him, I gotta assume this is what happened).
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I don't make assumptions, but the fact that it was one thing after another could have played a role. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but when it's one thing after another getting swept under the rug, maybe it was a culmination of things that people, myself included, just got tired of. And I'll be the first to admit, I'm biased, because I zero respect for him.

I have no shame whatsoever in admitting that during the campaign, when there's countless sexual assaults coming to the surface, his inability, his inability to shut his mouth regarding the E. Jean Carroll situation, and his fraud and hush money cases that I felt the country would be better off with him anywhere but in the oval office and still do. Primarily because I got to listen to him the past 4 years talking about getting even while (as others had said) running everyone else's name through the mud and calling everyone else criminals while pretending he did nothing wrong. Do I think he'd actually ever go to jail/prison, not at all, but I also don't think it's possible for a person to spew that kind of hatred for 4 years and not have an agenda that's solely focused on doing what's best for our country. I also think it's safe to say that was on display his first two weeks in office and I think it's going to be a 4 year revenge tour.
 
PCHawk said:
Using trade for negotiating is for whatever reason something America hasn't done, and now we are 34 trillion in debt. When Trump says Russia would have never invaded if he was president, he means he would have used the threat of our economy to prevent it. That's the best and least deadly way to get what you want from another country and we are dangerously close to losing that ability. I see Trump using it now as a good thing.

That said, not sure of all the ins and outs of why he's going after Canada. I've heard it's for border reasons and I've heard they've been taking advantage of us with trade deals forever. As long as he's doing it for a good reason (which can be debatable) I'm good with it. And as far as Mexico goes, it sounds like Trump has been on them about helping fix the border for a long time. It sounds like Mexico wasn't complying.
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What bothers me most about the Canada situation is the fact that the moment they didn't buy in and bow down to him he became instantly offended and went on one of his famous tirades about how we don't need Canada and they have very little to offer. However in the middle of that it he just so happened to bring up Canada becoming our 51st first state and how'd they'd benefit from our protection, economy, and no tariffs. The moment I heard that it immediately became clear to me that this had nothing to do with protecting our northern border.
Mexico makes sense because, but Canada? With Canada there's no way it's first and foremost about "national security" and if it is were just as responsible for drugs getting in and out of Canada as they are for letting it into our country. And if they've been "taking advantage of us forever, why wait until his second week back and office to do something about it. They're a neighbor and an ally and he's trying to flex on them to prove a point to the rest of the world and IMO it's BS.
 
PCHawk said:
Using trade for negotiating is for whatever reason something America hasn't done, and now we are 34 trillion in debt. When Trump says Russia would have never invaded if he was president, he means he would have used the threat of our economy to prevent it. That's the best and least deadly way to get what you want from another country and we are dangerously close to losing that ability. I see Trump using it now as a good thing.
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Then why doesn't Trump put tariffs on Russian products to stop them in the Ukraine invasion? No, he'd rather go at our Allies
 
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kicker22 said:
I don't make assumptions, but the fact that it was one thing after another could have played a role. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but when it's one thing after another getting swept under the rug, maybe it was a culmination of things that people, myself included, just got tired of. And I'll be the first to admit, I'm biased, because I zero respect for him.

I have no shame whatsoever in admitting that during the campaign, when there's countless sexual assaults coming to the surface, his inability, his inability to shut his mouth regarding the E. Jean Carroll situation, and his fraud and hush money cases that I felt the country would be better off with him anywhere but in the oval office and still do. Primarily because I got to listen to him the past 4 years talking about getting even while (as others had said) running everyone else's name through the mud and calling everyone else criminals while pretending he did nothing wrong. Do I think he'd actually ever go to jail/prison, not at all, but I also don't think it's possible for a person to spew that kind of hatred for 4 years and not have an agenda that's solely focused on doing what's best for our country. I also think it's safe to say that was on display his first two weeks in office and I think it's going to be a 4 year revenge tour.
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I will say this. If a lady accused me of assaulting her that I didn't, I would have a really hard time keeping my mouth shut too.
 
kicker22 said:
What bothers me most about the Canada situation is the fact that the moment they didn't buy in and bow down to him he became instantly offended and went on one of his famous tirades about how we don't need Canada and they have very little to offer. However in the middle of that it he just so happened to bring up Canada becoming our 51st first state and how'd they'd benefit from our protection, economy, and no tariffs. The moment I heard that it immediately became clear to me that this had nothing to do with protecting our northern border.
Mexico makes sense because, but Canada? With Canada there's no way it's first and foremost about "national security" and if it is were just as responsible for drugs getting in and out of Canada as they are for letting it into our country. And if they've been "taking advantage of us forever, why wait until his second week back and office to do something about it. They're a neighbor and an ally and he's trying to flex on them to prove a point to the rest of the world and IMO it's BS.
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Perfectly reasonable way to break things down. I'm guessing this is at least half true.
 
PCHawk said:
I can easily see how it looks like it from the outside, and for all I know it is. It's also possible that Trump knows more about it than us and Milley is corrupt to the core. I'm not going to pretend I'm sure which one it is.
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That is the thing. They ordered an investigation into Milley so we have to see what is what. Right away Trump bad see what he did. So, let us see what becomes of the Milley probe. Innocent until proven guilty but I wonder if any wrongdoing turns up how talked about it will be or no real mentions and let's talk about other things that are bad.

The tariffs starting to help us get what want. I guess we should have just asked nicely. I'm sure Mexico and Columbia would have capitulated if we just called up and asked. Of course he is a bully and complain complain but better this than the Biden weakness.

Hay Man said:
The why doesn't Trump put tariffs on Russian products to stop them in the Ukraine invasion? No, he'd rather go at our Allies
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That won't do much as we get most of our stuff from Canada, Mexico, and China. We "sanction" Russia more than tariff them. He is working with OPEC to hurt the Russian oil profits cause that is what makes them rich enough to carry on a war. Obviously that is not the easiest thing getting OPEC going on oil prices. Should ask the Biden admin. why they dropped the US sanctions on Nord Stream 2 and did other things that helped Russia get more oil dollars and be able to have a long conflict. Billions for Iraq as well not enforcing sanctions there and more terrorism is funded. Great policy decisions??
 
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