Trump supporters, how do you square this?

Hay Man said:
Fry, I couldn't agree with you more on what is happening now and going to happen in the near future here in the U.S. It's going to get really ugly, really fast and it's going to hurt so many families in our country and possibly worldwide. What do you think is going to happen when people lose their jobs, housing, everything? Crime rates will soar, suicides will increase and so much more.
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It could totally go that way (I hope not), but I think there is a decent chance it doesn't.

Trump loves to link stock market performance to HIS performance (see: Trump taking credit for the stock market's strong run in 2024 by claiming it was due to people expecting him to be elected, and the work he and all of his surrogates have been doing this week to try to convince people this recent downturn is Biden's fault). Also, the playbook has long been out on how to manipulate Trump...flatter him, give him "concessions" that aren't really concessions but that allow him to claim a win. I think the market slide is going to spook him, and he will make some deals to avoid a trade war and save face. The stocks will recover. Rich people will do great. The middle class will continue to struggle. Poor people will fare much worse due to loss of services. Society gradually slides backward, but not in a catastrophic way. Republicans are voted out in 2028 because things just generally feel shitty.

But the longer he stays dug in on this, the more we get isolated (economically and geopolitically), and the more damage gets done. It could end up just us and Russia stuck in the 20th century as the rest of the world zooms ahead.
 
PCHawk said:

So it seems like they reviewed everything DOGE found with USAID and made final decisions after 6 weeks. People are complaining because they are confusing how quickly Musk is being transparent with the information he finds with decisions actually being made on what to do with them. To be fair, the confusion is understandable with the way Musk releases his info as "money saved". But the truth is, Musk's team is auditing all of the money spent and congress is deciding what to do about it. Seems like something we should all be on board with. If the only reason to be concerned is Musk has access to personal information, his team had the same vetting process as everyone else has to go through to gain access. I really hope more people get on board with this because it's necessary.
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There's still a valid reason to be concerned. (1) there's a valid reason to be concerned with the fact Musk is in any sort of position to be the one doing the auditing when he's had interaction with a number of these agencies. (2) He owns companies that could benefit as a result of changes brought on as a result of the audit potentially creating conflicts of interest ie. Starlink and spaceX. (3) He's still auditing programs he doesn't know the ins and outs of and based off his "receipts" is flagging spending without truly knowing where its going or how its fully being used ie. transgendered mice.

Again as many have stated whether he comes off as unbiased or not he was the leading contributor to Trumps campaign and that alone comes as concerning to many. I'm against this completely strictly because of how its' been carried out from day one. That said, if conducted by committee of professionals made up of individuals that aren't politicians or heavily invested in Washington DC that take a deeper, more thorough approach, I would be in favor of this.
 
kicker22 said:
There's still a valid reason to be concerned. (1) there's a valid reason to be concerned with the fact Musk is in any sort of position to be the one doing the auditing when he's had interaction with a number of these agencies. (2) He owns companies that could benefit as a result of changes brought on as a result of the audit potentially creating conflicts of interest ie. Starlink and spaceX. (3) He's still auditing programs he doesn't know the ins and outs of and based off his "receipts" is flagging spending without truly knowing where its going or how its fully being used ie. transgendered mice.

Again as many have stated whether he comes off as unbiased or not he was the leading contributor to Trumps campaign and that alone comes as concerning to many. I'm against this completely strictly because of how its' been carried out from day one. That said, if conducted by committee of professionals made up of individuals that aren't politicians or heavily invested in Washington DC that take a deeper, more thorough approach, I would be in favor of this.
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Musk is just one guy in the team of people. He has said repeatedly he avoids conflict of interest. Is it possible he's lying? Sure. But is it equally possible he could persuade things to happen that benifit his companies even if he kept completely out of it all? Of course he could.

The ides that Musk needs to be in the role he has right now to get his preferred outcome isn't very well thought out. Rich people have been getting politicians to do what they want without being involved first hand for a long time. Musk could go the hands off route and be even more successful than the route he's choosing now. I seriously believe if anyone contemplates that theory for just a few minutes it would be obvious it's true. And once that part is obvious, it destroys the whole "he's doing this for bad reasons" argument. This might be the hardest possible route that a billionaire could take with the government to use them to get more rich. Do you truly believe Musk has to have this role inside the government in order to persuade them to do what he wants?
 
Here's another possible theory....maybe Musk is trying to set the whole thing up to benefit himself and his many companies that have contracts from the U.S. government and he's just so bad at it that he's screwing himself over??? Being rich does not make one smart. He might have good ideas but that does not make him qualified to carry out what he's trying to do. You give him and tRump way more credit mainly because they are rich.....inherited riches that 99.99999% of us average Americans will never have. That doesn't make a person qualified to do what they're trying to do, whether it's good or evil.
 

I have seen a lot of these stories over the last couple weeks. I don't think there is any question that what Trump is doing is going to have short term consequences. But if he brings trillions of dollars in businesses back to America, that's good on so many levels. I've got no problem at all with people arguing that this will be an overall net negative. I just don't like the argument that this is all negative. And once again, if this doesn't work, we were on a one way course to bankrupt anyway. The worst case scenario is he gets us there slightly faster. Best case scenario is he turns it around.
 
Hay Man said:
Here's another possible theory....maybe Musk is trying to set the whole thing up to benefit himself and his many companies that have contracts from the U.S. government and he's just so bad at it that he's screwing himself over??? Being rich does not make one smart. He might have good ideas but that does not make him qualified to carry out what he's trying to do. You give him and tRump way more credit mainly because they are rich.....inherited riches that 99.99999% of us average Americans will never have. That doesn't make a person qualified to do what they're trying to do, whether it's good or evil.
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What reality are you living in to argue that Musk isn't smart? Tell me you're not really saying that.
 
HawkIowa44 said:
Musk bought all of his companies. He didn’t create them.
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Well that's a lie. The ones he did buy were extremely new and had virtually no success yet. I assume you typed that inaccurate statement because you heard somewhere he didn't actually start Tesla. If you would have left it at that, you would have been correct. Not that it would have mattered since Tesla had done nothing at all until Musk was involved.
 
Very touchy about Elon I see. You make it sound like he can do no wrong. It doesn’t look like Hayman said he wasn’t smart, but that being rich doesn’t make one smart. He’s very smart about certain things, but not everything. So that doesn’t qualify him to do any job with quality, no matter what. How is he qualified to do what he’s doing with our government?
 
HawkIowa44 said:
Very touchy about Elon I see. You make it sound like he can do no wrong. It doesn’t look like Hayman said he wasn’t smart, but that being rich doesn’t make one smart. He’s very smart about certain things, but not everything. So that doesn’t qualify him to do any job with quality, no matter what. How is he qualified to do what he’s doing with our government?
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Do you have to be touchy about something in order to call out a lie when you read it? There would be no point in Hayman even saying that if he wasn't trying to apply it to Elon. Being extremely affective at cutting waste from a business is a perfect qualification for the position he has.

But let's not gloss over this whole "touchy" thing. You throw out a blatantly wrong comment and I call you out for it, and that means I'm touchy? I'll have to remember that to use later if I ever end up being wrong about something.
 
HawkIowa44 said:

What a f’ing moron. He can’t remember half of the stupid things he did and hates now.
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If Trump is the one who started allowing these states to get their power from Canada, it means it's a relatively new thing. So theoretically, it should be am easy thing to go back to what we did before Trump. But my guess is it was that way before Trump and it was something he didn't change. That is just a guess tho. But again, if these states were getting US power before Trump, then canada shutting off the power shouldn't be a big deal at least.
 
PCHawk said:
Do you have to be touchy about something in order to call out a lie when you read it? There would be no point in Hayman even saying that if he wasn't trying to apply it to Elon. Being extremely affective at cutting waste from a business is a perfect qualification for the position he has.

But let's not gloss over this whole "touchy" thing. You throw out a blatantly wrong comment and I call you out for it, and that means I'm touchy? I'll have to remember that to use later if I ever end up being wrong about something.
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Good thing you’re never wrong
 
So after some quick research, all three states in question have been getting their power from Ontario long before Trump became president. That link you quoted pretends it was Trump's idea to give them power when all he did was sign a deal for the trade that was already happening. I assume you will pretend this distinction doesn't matter.
 
PCHawk said:
So after some quick research, all three states in question have been getting their power from Ontario long before Trump became president. That link you quoted pretends it was Trump's idea to give them power when all he did was sign a deal for the trade that was already happening. I assume you will pretend this distinction doesn't matter.
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Did he or did he not sign the agreement that was extended? He likes to claim everything that’s good for the U.S but blames everyone but himself if something goes wrong. I assume you don’t care about that.
 
HawkIowa44 said:
Did he or did he not sign the agreement that was extended? He likes to claim everything that’s good for the U.S but blames everyone but himself if something goes wrong. I assume you don’t care about that.
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He signed it. He bragged about it. There’s pictures and news clips to prove it. Lies and bs and America eats it up. Stupid as Germans in 39. Humans are embarrassing
 
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