Trash talk or poor sportsmanship?

[#1DieHardHawk]

At first I blew off what Reese was doing at the end of the game knowing that Caitlin is known for trash-talking, and that in sports you often reap what you sew, so to speak.

But, the more I contemplated it, what we witnessed there wasn't trash-talking - it was gloating. And, there's a huge difference.

Larry Bird was one of the best known trash talkers in NBA history. He would make comments in the heat of the battle to get under the skin of opposing players and coaches, and it was all in competitive fun. BUT, you would NEVER, EVER, see him walk over to, say, Magic Johnson or Michael Jordan, and get in their faces after a win. If anything, it was just the opposite. There was tremendous mutual respect amongst those great players, and they would praise each other after tough games.

What we saw from Reese was simply classless.

 

[HawkPowerlifter]

This debate is blowing up all over on social media. I think the comparisons everyone is talking about is the "You Can't See Me" motion. I will be the first to say, if you are going to dish it out, you best be ready to take it. Hence, why I don't really like any of it from any player including our own players. But I am more old school about that.

Trash talk is part of today's games, and it's widely accepted. Things get said in the heat of the moment. One issue I take with Reese is she did it at the free throw line standing next to Clark. She also stalked and followed Clark taunting her.

Clark on the on other hand did the motion to her bench surrounded by her teammates and not to her opponent. I would rather have had her not do it at all, but stuff like this goes on all the time.

Play to the crowd or celebrate a great play, but to disrespect or taunt like Reese did I thought was over the top. Credit to Clark, she took it and handled it like a pro.

It's hard not to be a bit of a homer, and let emotion creep into this conversation. But if we go beyond the game, and you compare the two players, I think you get a better understanding of character.

There's a pic circulating of Reese flipping the bird to Hawk fans as she walked by. Post game press conference she basically said she didn't care what anyone thought of her and her antics.

At the end of the day, this stings. LSU was the better team. They are the national champs. Heckuva year for the Hawkeyes. Let's run it back.

 

[SomersHawk]

Although I am sure a player on a winning team has had it out for an opposing player on the other team and rubbed it in afterwards, I have never seen or heard about it. Definitely not on this type of stage.

Only thing comes to mind is Brett Beleima telling ISU coach after game how much he enjoyed kicking his ass for 4 years.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

Caitlin puts a target on her back with her in-game antics. But, again, taunting/gloating is distinctly different. I don't think you would ever see her gloat to an opponent once the outcome of a game has been decided.

All that said, LSU was the better team yesterday. Getting unreal performances off their bench and having desperation 3s bank in certainly helped. It was just one of those nights where the stars aligned, and they earned the win.

 

[CP87]

If you are okay with Clark's showmanship (which I am), then you cannot get too outraged about Reese. You don't want Reese to do that, then win the game.

I am also sympathetic to black female athletes being treated differently than white female athletes. I think that happens, and that sucks.

But it is intellectually dishonest to claim that what Reese did is exactly the same as what Clark has done. Clark made that hand-motion for 1 second IN THE MIDDLE of an intense, back-and-forth, trash talk battle with Van Lith. This is akin to Reese making the "too small" gesture in the middle of the game after she got an offensive rebound and put back (which she also did). No one had a problem with that.

What she did at the end of the game was a different thing. I really cannot think of any examples of an athlete, in the moment of victory on a big stage, going out of his/her way to taunt an individual opponent like that. Not a great look, but that is for her to live with. Also not a crime, and nothing to get too worked up over.

 

[Fryowa]

At the end of the day, play basketball (or [insert sport here]) and stop giving a shit what the other team does.

 

[Fryowa]

This debate is blowing up all over on social media. I think the comparisons everyone is talking about is the "You Can't See Me" motion. I will be the first to say, if you are going to dish it out, you best be ready to take it. Hence, why I don't really like any of it from any player including our own players. But I am more old school about that.

This is why I don't let my guys chirp the other team from the dugout. All it does is make you look like dumbasses the next time shit doesn't go your way.

 

[OlRustyBoy]

This is why I don't let my guys chirp the other team from the dugout. All it does is make you look like dumbasses the next time shit doesn't go your way.

100% this. Celebrate with your team and have fun be excited but not towards the other team. I never understand that. That is the problem I had with Reese. Instead of celebrating with her team she is still shit talking. Talk about living rent free in someones head. You just won the Natty and you are still worried about Caitlyn. LOL

No reason to worry about the other team. Because what goes around does come around at some point. Im not a fan of act like you have been there but at some point you need too.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

At the end of the day, play basketball (or [insert sport here]) and stop giving a shit what the other team does.

I get your point, and I'm not reacting emotionally here. It's more big picture. One of the things that makes sports - all sports - special is that it cultivates positive social attributes through learning about sportsmanship, and the ability to take the good with the bad with class.

Trash-talking, playing to the crowd, etc., is all in the fun of competition. Players and fans generally understand that. Getting into the face of an opponent and gloating once the outcome has been decided is anathema to what is good about sports. I've done some coaching myself, and I would have been horrified and irate if I witnessed that from one of my players, and you can bet they would have been apologizing later.

 

[Fryowa]

100% this. Celebrate with your team and have fun be excited but not towards the other team. I never understand that. That is the problem I had with Reese. Instead of celebrating with her team she is still shit talking. Talk about living rent free in someones head. You just won the Natty and you are still worried about Caitlyn. LOL

No reason to worry about the other team. Because what goes around does come around at some point. Im not a fan of act like you have been there but at some point you need too.

I tell guys before every game to act like you've been here before. Nothing is more demoralizing to another team than hitting a 2 run go-ahead double and acting like it's no big deal.

 

[Fryowa]

I get your point, and I'm not reacting emotionally here. It's more big picture. One of the things that makes sports - all sports - special is that it cultivates positive social attributes through learning about sportsmanship, and the ability to take the good with the bad with class.

Trash-talking, playing to the crowd, etc., is all in the fun of competition. Players and fans generally understand that. Getting into the face of an opponent and gloating once the outcome has been decided is anathema to what is good about sports. I've done some coaching myself, and I would have been horrified and irate if I witness that from one of my players, and you can bet they would have been apologizing later.

I also get that side of it, but control what you can control, let other teams be douche bags...it has no bearing on our performance or image. Actually, it makes us look better, Maybe look at it that way.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

I also get that side of it, but control what you can control Let other teams be douche bags...it has no bearing on our performance or image. Actually, it makes us look better, Maybe look at it that way.

Absolutely. I didn't post this because I'm upset with the other team, and I agree that we come out looking better. I just noticed that many fans were conflating trash talking with what Reese did, but I see an important distinction there. I think most fans do.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Caitlin puts a target on her back with her in-game antics. But, again, taunting/gloating is distinctly different. I don't think you would ever see her gloat to an opponent once the outcome of a game has been decided.

All that said, LSU was the better team yesterday. Getting unreal performances off their bench and having desperation 3s bank in certainly helped. It was just one of those nights where the stars aligned, and they earned the win.

with officiating assist.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

If you are okay with Clark's showmanship (which I am), then you cannot get too outraged about Reese. You don't want Reese to do that, then win the game.

I am also sympathetic to black female athletes being treated differently than white female athletes. I think that happens, and that sucks.

But it is intellectually dishonest to claim that what Reese did is exactly the same was what Clark has done. Clark made that hand-motion for 1 second IN THE MIDDLE of an intense, back-and-forth, trash talk battle with Van Lith. This is akin to Reese making the "too small" gesture in the middle of the game after she got an offensive rebound and put back (which she also did). No one had a problem with that.

What she did at the end of the game was a different thing. I really cannot think of any examples of an athlete, in the moment of victory on a big stage, going out of his/her way to taunt an individual opponent like that. Not a great look, but that is for her to live with. Also not a crime, and nothing to get too worked up over.

I think white athletes also have their share of racism thrown their way though. No question about it, SC coach and LSU players played the race card and poor old me for being black and I will show up those white girls disrespecting me. Pure garbage.

LSU won the National Title, but they did not win Mrs. Congeniality...that is for sure.

 

[Glass1/2fullguy]

I for one love the trash talk. Whether it's from the opposing team or from CC. I think Reece's prolonged following Clark around the floor at the end of the game was in poor taste but like many have said if you're going to dish it out then you better be able to take it. Clark handled it perfectly because she's a highly competitive player and gets it. I was at both games and what absolutely disgusts me is how Reece wanted to play the victim card and make the reaction to her taunting about race. The reaction was about how she followed clark around the floor taunting her. That's what the reaction is about. Doesn't matter if you're black, white, yellow, red, blue, green, purple, or pink. If clark did the same thing to a white player at the end of a championship game I believe she wouldn've gotten the same amount of "classless" backlash that Reece got. Yeah that's a hypothetical but at least i for one would've felt it was tasteless. In this day of age it seems as though everyone is so quick to play the race card and i'm just sick and tired of it.

"All year, I was critiqued for who I was. I don't fit the narrative," Reese said. "I don't fit the box that y'all want me to be in. I'm too hood. I'm too ghetto. Y'all told me that all year. When other people do it, and y'all don't say nothing.
"So this is for the girls that look like me. For those that want to speak up for what they believe in. It's unapologetically you. And that's what I [did] before tonight. It was bigger than me tonight. And Twitter is going to go into a rage every time."

 

[Fryowa]

Calling Caitlin a hoe on the free-throw line as well as well as her assault on Molly. She should have been kicked out of the game.

Delete that unless you have a sound bite or statement from someone who was right there on the floor saying she used the word "hoe." Watch the Bad Lip Reading youtube channel and then you'll see how you can make literally anything out of reading lips.

I'm not kidding. If someone made an unsubstantiated claim about Clark calling a player a hoe going on lip reading only you'd explode in fit of rage. Get rid of it.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Delete that unless you have a sound bite or statement from someone who was right there on the floor saying she used the word "hoe." Watch the Bad Lip Reading youtube channel and then you'll see how you can make literally anything out of reading lips.

I'm not kidding. If someone made an unsubstantiated claim about Clark calling a player a hoe going on lip reading only you'd explode in fit of rage. Get rid of it.

It is in this post Fry....look at the twitter feed....she called her a HOE on the free-throw line. It happened. Throws shade, calls are a HOE, and flings her head back towards the lane in disrespect. Her sportsmanship....lack their of...was on full display.

And, like I said, and I hope your not glossing over this, she should have been kicked out of the game for what she did to Molly. Two dirty cheap shots that somehow the official missed.

 

[Fryowa]

It is in this post Fry....look at the twitter feed....she called her a HOE on the free-throw line. It happened. Throws shade, calls are a HOE, and flings her head back towards the lane in disrespect. Her sportsmanship....lack their of...was on full display.

And, like I said, and I hope your not glossing over this, she should have been kicked out of the game for what she did to Molly. Two dirty cheap shots that somehow the official missed.

First of all, it's not in this thread. And there's no audio, and the clip starts at the very end of whatever she was saying. It could have been "yo," could have been any number of things she said. So no, unless you have a clip with audio or someone standing right there who says she called her a hoe, you don't know at all what was said. It could have just as easily been, "Can you see me now?" with just the bolded visible in the clip. But I don't know what was said, and neither do you.

Again, based off the same evidence you used, you would tilt like a pinball machine if someone accused Clark of doing that.

 

[Seth53]

Some of the biggest-ever NBA stars (Bird, Jordan) trash-talked their entire career.

I don't remember them specifically taunting but they probably did.

It goes with the game when played at the highest (and most every) level.

 

[HawkPowerlifter]

It's sad that the NCAA women's basketball final is being overshadowed by all this and the race card is being thrown around. Viewership was up and broke records. A platform was cemented to a level that women's basketball has never seen before. That is what we should be celebrating. AND that our Hawkeyes made it to their first final ever.
As for the antics, I think we need to look deeper. Reece says she embracing her "too ghetto" and "too hood" persona. Goes on to say she is "from Baltimore." Guess that excuses how she behaves? She is a freshman.

It's also a difference in programs too. Look at the head coaches. Bluder took the high road and said she only controls her players and what she can control. Mulky chose to embrace Reece's taunting by saying she loves it, but look at Mulky's personality.

I'm proud of Coach Bluder and the Hawks and hope this will be a bump for recruiting and hope maybe some player in the portal wants to play alongside Clark and don the black and gold. This was something special.