Tisdale would be our best 3 point shooter

[EddyP]

I have watched a lot of college ball this year and I have not seen a worse perimeter shooting team than Iowa. Crimminy, Tisdale can make wide open 3's, but Gatens, May and McCabe shoot bricks. Gatens needs to figure out how to make shots after the first 10 minutes of games. He is brutal in the second half and I wish we had somebody to take minutes away from him. Hopefully Oglesby and yet to be signed guard / wing can cut into his playing time, as he doesn't deserve the time and looks he gets.

Senior or not, for us to get better, he needs to play less next year. I am not blaming him for the loss, as IL is simply a better team. However, he is a junior and someone that McCaffrey has set the table for all season and he has underwhelmed.

Well, Tisdale is shooting 41% from 3 so percentage wise you would be correct although Gatens has attempted twice as many and is shooting 34%(which is pretty good). But, yeah I am frustrated with the 3 point shooting too. May acts like he doesn't want to take the shot and McCabe has no problem jacking it up(which I kind of like), but they just aren't going down. Those are our only 3 point shooters. I disagree that Gatens needs to play less next year.

 

[LG210]

Quoted for truth.

Gatens is not a bad player at all. But he IS overhyped as a shooter. He's okay, not great. You can't miss the kind of looks he's been getting and be considered a good/great shooter. And he's certainly not an assassin. Farokhmanesh shot like 34% last year (About the same as Gatens), but I'd take him in a heartbeat, because he's got ice in his veins. Gatens doesn't hit that shot to beat Kansas if he were in that spot. And that's what we're getting at.

I don't think anybody but Farokhmanesh even takes that shot. It was completely ill-advised. Helluva shot, but he never should have taken it.

 

[hawkIhoops]

You must not have seen MSU play. They have a worse 3% than Iowa

I have seen a number of MSU games, have you?

Lucas 37%
Green 39%
Summers 36.5%
Appling 35.7%

Gatens 34%
Cartwright 26%
May 40%
McCabe 28%

I really don't care about what scrub players shoot in non conference games, so this is based on 60+ attempts.

 

[hawkIhoops]

Gatens percentage has also been, IMO, a function of the people around him. Teams know he is the only legit outside threat Iowa has, and they never leave him because of it.

I understand you have to be a bit of a partisan guy here, but Gatens has had plenty of open looks all season. How much more open can a guy get in competitive basketball? If he doesn't go to the line 10 times I don't think he can score 20 from the field. The myth that other teams scheme against him is overblown IMO. He gets uncontested shots via sets and transition and simply doesn't make them.

 

[EddyP]

I have seen a number of MSU games, have you?

Lucas 37%
Green 39%
Summers 36.5%
Appling 35.7%

Gatens 34%
Cartwright 26%
May 40%
McCabe 28%

I really don't care about what scrub players shoot in non conference games, so this is based on 60+ attempts.

Sooo, your beef is with Cartwright and McCabe and not with Gatens and May?

 

[tm3308]

I don't think anybody but Farokhmanesh even takes that shot. It was completely ill-advised. Helluva shot, but he never should have taken it.

Maybe so, but I don't think they win that game if he doesn't take it. But the fact that he took it says a lot. He didn't have any fear, and he drained it in cold blood. Cartwright and Marble might be the only two perimeter players we have with that kind of confidence, and neither is that good of a 3-point shooter.

 

[ICbornNraised]

HawkIhoops,
I agree with you. I was the one who started “Gatens is the reason we got killed”, and was blasted for being critical of the home town hero. The reality is that Fran has given Gatens the opportunity to be the hero all season, and he has almost always disappointed. People go to the percentages in his defense. That’s overrated. What’s is his percentage made of wide open shots in the clutch? It is a very low number this year. MAKE YOUR WIDE OPEN SHOTS!! Is that too much to ask from a Big Ten shooting guard?? One whos specialty is the 3 ball. This goes for all of our shooters. Gatens is a vet, a leader, and our “best shooter”, so he gets held to a higher standard, as he should. I think Stoermer could probably hit those wide open 3’s, but problem is he can’t defend like Gatens.
The hardcore Gatens defenders with surely bash this post, but we all know they/you are running out of excuses…. GO HAWKS!!

 

[tm3308]

HawkIhoops,
I agree with you. I was the one who started “Gatens is the reason we got killedâ€, and was blasted for being critical of the home town hero. The reality is that Fran has given Gatens the opportunity to be the hero all season, and he has almost always disappointed. People go to the percentages in his defense. That’s overrated. What’s is his percentage made of wide open shots in the clutch? It is a very low number this year. MAKE YOUR WIDE OPEN SHOTS!! Is that too much to ask from a Big Ten shooting guard?? One whos specialty is the 3 ball. This goes for all of our shooters. Gatens is a vet, a leader, and our “best shooterâ€, so he gets held to a higher standard, as he should. I think Stoermer could probably hit those wide open 3’s, but problem is he can’t defend like Gatens.
The hardcore Gatens defenders with surely bash this post, but we all know they/you are running out of excuses…. GO HAWKS!!

You got bashed for a stupid post that made it sound like Gatens was the reason we lost the game. Then you went on your "he's not the reason we lost, he's the reason we got killed" argument, spawning one of the funniest threads of all time

 

[hawkIhoops]

Spirited debate by all, which is the point of these boards ( I think). I would love for Gatens to prove me wrong and score 25 Wednesday night, but I don't think he has the tools do it. I certainly respect and appreciate his effort every night, but IMO, other guys need take shots away from him and no more sets for him in crunch time unless as a 3rd option.

I think the fact that McCaffrey signed two shooters (White and Oglesby) says it all.

 

[hawkIhoops]

Sooo, your beef is with Cartwright and McCabe and not with Gatens and May?

Cartwright is a PG, not a shooting guard and plays virtually the whole game with the entire weight of the offense on his shoulders. Cartwright has made more clutch shots this season than Gatens has in 3 years.

 

[tm3308]

Spirited debate by all, which is the point of these boards ( I think). I would love for Gatens to prove me wrong and score 25 Wednesday night, but I don't think he has the tools do it. I certainly respect and appreciate his effort every night, but IMO, other guys need take shots away from him and no more sets for him in crunch time unless as a 3rd option.

I think the fact that McCaffrey signed two shooters (White and Oglesby) says it all.

Or perhaps Fran sees a little of Gordon Hayward in White (that's a comparison getting drawn more and more frequently), which is hardly the kind of player to turn down if you can get him. And Gatens is going to be a senior. Oglesby would be the next in line.

I don't think that's any kind of indictment of Gatens. That's just signing his heir apparent in the shooter's role and a player who could possibly be a hidden superstar (if the Hayward comparisons are anywhere near accurate).

 

[EddyP]

Cartwright is a PG, not a shooting guard and plays virtually the whole game with the entire weight of the offense on his shoulders. Cartwright has made more clutch shots this season than Gatens has in 3 years.

Come on now, don't just throw stuff out there without anything to back it up. I know Cartwright isn't a 3 point shooter, my point was that you listed stats of MSU players and Gatens and May's 3 point % is right in line with theirs.

 

[hawkIhoops]

Come on now, don't just throw stuff out there without anything to back it up. I know Cartwright isn't a 3 point shooter, my point was that you listed stats of MSU players and Gatens and May's 3 point % is right in line with theirs.

What am I throwing out there? If you know Cartwright isn't a 3 point shooter, then why reference him as the person I should have a problem with? Cartwright brings more to the table than Gatens and May and these guys AT LEAST should be able to account for themselves offensively once in while. Instead May is AWOL and Gatens can't throw it in the ocean. Did you happen to catch tonight's game? We showed MSU who can shoot the 3. What did we end up 0-12?

You certainly put me in my place.