This team better get back to what got them here.

Knight78 said:
Let's examine the statement "Our defense has been horrible lately".

Minnesota, 38% FG and 27% 3pt. Minnesota season avg is 41% FG and 31% 3pt. (Steals were equal, but we had more blocks and less turnovers)
Indiana, 42% FG and 36% 3pt. Indiana season avg is 50% FG and 41% 3pt. (They had one more steal, one more block but 3 more turnovers)
Illinois, 39% FG and 32% 3pt. Illinois season avg is 43% FG and 36% 3pt. (We had more steals, more blocks and less turnovers)
Penn St, 30% FG and 5% 3pt. Penn St season avg is 40% FG and 30% 3pt. (We had less steals and blocks and more turnovers)

That is probably "lately" as it is the past two weeks. So tell me, if we are holding teams below their season average of shooting percentages, how is that bad defense? Our rebounding hasn't been consistent, and we aren't passing and cutting with the same sense of purpose as we did earlier in the season... but those aren't really defensive issues.
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It's the same logic people use to ***** about CJ, the WRs and the passing game when we rush for 250 yards on a cold, windy day and we only win by 7 to 10 points, are never behind in the game, and we go all vanilla in the second half. Some times, a win isn't really a "win".
 
Knight78 said:
Let's examine the statement "Our defense has been horrible lately".

Minnesota, 38% FG and 27% 3pt. Minnesota season avg is 41% FG and 31% 3pt. (Steals were equal, but we had more blocks and less turnovers)
Indiana, 42% FG and 36% 3pt. Indiana season avg is 50% FG and 41% 3pt. (They had one more steal, one more block but 3 more turnovers)
Illinois, 39% FG and 32% 3pt. Illinois season avg is 43% FG and 36% 3pt. (We had more steals, more blocks and less turnovers)
Penn St, 30% FG and 5% 3pt. Penn St season avg is 40% FG and 30% 3pt. (We had less steals and blocks and more turnovers)

That is probably "lately" as it is the past two weeks. So tell me, if we are holding teams below their season average of shooting percentages, how is that bad defense? Our rebounding hasn't been consistent, and we aren't passing and cutting with the same sense of purpose as we did earlier in the season... but those aren't really defensive issues.
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Like he explained earlier, rebounding is part of defense. We are doing fine defending the shot but we are having trouble rebounding the ball. Therefore our defense sucks. I know it doesn't make sense but just go with it. Otherwise you'll need to give him 50 bucks to explain it further.
 
It all boils down to defensive rebounding. Fix it and we will be fine. I hope we're just a tad fatigued because a week off could fix that. Just survive tonight and we should be good.
 
In team analysis i have a hard time separating defensive rebounding and defense. They are different skill sets but they are very intertwined. Think of how low the shooting percentages would be if we rebounded.
 
Knight78 said:
Let's examine the statement "Our defense has been horrible lately".

Minnesota, 38% FG and 27% 3pt. Minnesota season avg is 41% FG and 31% 3pt.
Indiana, 42% FG and 36% 3pt. Indiana season avg is 50% FG and 41% 3pt.
Illinois, 39% FG and 32% 3pt. Illinois season avg is 43% FG and 36% 3pt.
Penn St, 30% FG and 5% 3pt. Penn St season avg is 40% FG and 30% 3pt.

That is probably "lately" as it is the past two weeks. So tell me, if we are holding teams below their season average of shooting percentages, how is that bad defense? Our rebounding hasn't been consistent, and we aren't passing and cutting with the same sense of purpose as we did earlier in the season... but those aren't really defensive issues.
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I wanted to look at Big 10 games only since the quality of non conference schedules varies significantly...had no idea if numbers would look better or worse. And the data is more current/relevant IMO. These are conference season averages and (against Iowa).

MN - 41% & 28% (38% & 27%)
IN - 47% & 39% (42% & 36%)
IL - 41% & 35% (39% & 32%)
PSU - 40% & 27% (30% & 5%)

Side Note - We are 13th in the conference in defensive rebound percentage at 67.1%. Purdue is 1st at 78.8%.

Unrelated - We are 8-2 over our last 10 games. There are 4 teams at 7-3...MD, IN, WI and PU.
 
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bcl20 said:
In team analysis i have a hard time separating defensive rebounding and defense. They are different skill sets but they are very intertwined. Think of how low the shooting percentages would be if we rebounded.
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No question. How many buckets did Indiana get off 2nd shots? I honestly dont even want to know
 
bcl20 said:
In team analysis i have a hard time separating defensive rebounding and defense. They are different skill sets but they are very intertwined. Think of how low the shooting percentages would be if we rebounded.
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So in a situation where we are defending good and not getting the rebound, would you say "we need to play better defense" or "we need to rebound better"?
 
Free throw shooting is part of the offense so do you say "our free throw shooting sucks right now" or "our offense sucks right now"?
 
If we're scoring 1.5 points per possession but not getting any fast break points, does our offense suck or do we need to get the transition game going?
 
bcl20 said:
It all boils down to defensive rebounding. Fix it and we will be fine. I hope we're just a tad fatigued because a week off could fix that. Just survive tonight and we should be good.
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You are right - just survive tonight. This upcoming week off will be a godsend...
 
PCHawk said:
So in a situation where we are defending good and not getting the rebound, would you say "we need to play better defense" or "we need to rebound better"?
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If they aren't scoring on putbacks probably rebounding but if they are second chance shots people will look at shooting percentages and say we didn't defend well either.

I get we're basically criticizing lightning for his comment I'm just saying that from an analytical perspective it's hard to separate rebounding and defense though the reason you say one thing over another is because they do involve different skill sets.
 
bcl20 said:
If they aren't scoring on putbacks probably rebounding but if they are second chance shots people will look at shooting percentages and say we didn't defend well either.

I get we're basically criticizing lightning for his comment I'm just saying that from an analytical perspective it's hard to separate rebounding and defense though the reason you say one thing over another is because they do involve different skill sets.
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Yea that all makes sense. Just not in the context of this thread. When someone says the defense was bad and I say the defense was fine, it was the rebounding that was bad, you can't come back and say rebounding is part of defense.

When Lightning originally said we're playing bad on defense, he wasn't insinuating we need to box out better. He was saying we were defending poorly. When I said all we need to do is rebound better, he changed his arguement to "rebounding is part of defense". If he wants to argue that it's not just rebounding, it's everything on defense, that's fine. But to pretend he's still right because rebounding is part of defense is dumb.
 
I dare anyone here to tell Fran that rebounding isn't part of playing defense. The fact that some of you insist on trying to separate the 2, only tells me you've never played the game on a competitive level. If the guy you are guarding in the post, gets 12 points off of put backs from offensive rebounds, YOU PLAYED GARBAGE DEFENSE!!! It makes no difference if the guy you are guarding scores from the 3 pt line or off of offensive rebounds. YOU GAVE UP 12 POINTS!!!
Just let it go. The more you type the dumber you look.
 
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