This isn't Kirk's offense anymore

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Herkyalert

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People have long said that KOK and the offense was controlled by Kirk. Well I don't buy that with Greg Davis. We are seeing plays and routes that have never been run before. All the WR's and TE's are running 5 yard outs, and rocket screens/sideways passes are frequent. Players just don't seem to be on the same page, and the style does not fit the QB. If you ever listen to post-game interviews, you'll hear that Vandenberg is doing what he is told to do by Greg Davis. The locking on to one WR is something he's been instructed to do. Why does Iowa make the field smaller with those outs? The TE seam route is almost invisible in this scheme and that worked in the past. Listen to the On Iowa podcast from this past week and you'll hear that and more about how bad a fit Greg Davis is here. Iowa doesn't have the guys to run this offense, and never will. Every QB on the roster (and the 1 recruit) is a pro-style QB and that isn't going to work with a horizontal passing game. The play calling is terrible (how many times were the run off tackle stuffed?), and everyone looks lost. Greg Davis was the single worst thing to happen to Iowa football this season. Vandenberg has regressed and isn't comfortable in this new style, and the WR's are not fast enough to make yards after catch, which is what Greg Davis is trying to do.

Kirk Ferentz may run the show but this offense isn't his. Things have changed for the worse and I can only hope the Davis experiment ends after the season. It will only go south from here if he stays folks.
 
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Eh. I don't buy that. If GD had full discretion to implement the offense, I think we'd be in shotgun about 90% of the time. What you've got is two separate schemes that don't jive because Kirk won't be the HC and OC, but also won't relinquish control of the offense (my theory based on watching for the last fourteen years). I don't know about Ferentz's pllaycalling and design acumen, but I suspect this offense may at least appear coherent if we just didn't have an OC and Ferentz called plays. Maybe not good, but coherent would be a step up from this year.
 
If you look up Coach Davis' record, he seems to only spend about 2 years at a place before he moves on. I agree that Iowa doesn't have the players in the system and they probably won't have either. If this scheme didn't work at Texas with all their talent then why did Kirk think it would work here? And now it is worse with the injured linemen. Vandenburg is a scrambling duck looking to get sacked on almost every play.
I don't see a lot of hope for the rest of the year. Indiana's defense isn't that good when compared to the other B1G defenses that Iowa has yet to face. And they gave up 2...3 Sacks? Purdue has problems, but their D line is stout. And then you tack on a trip to Ann Arbor and the Huskers in Kinnick. These next three games could be an very ugly end to an already bad season.
 
Ok... Lets put ourselves in Greg Davis' shoes for a minute.

You want to install a "new" offense at a program that has been operating a traditional pro-style since the year 1875.

You immediately figure out that your receivers do not have enough speed, and you say as much, multiple times during spring football, fall camp, etc...

Your QB is struggling with the 3 and 5 step drops that are necessary in the new offense, because he spent 12 years in the old system of 7 step drops. He is not as accurate with his throws, and is struggling to find the open receivers.... probably because he is being asked to release the ball a lot quicker than before. (which has resulted in fewer sacks, btw)

During fall camp, and in pre-conference games, your wide receivers accumulate more drops than any other team in the BIG. They can't catch. The trend continues throughout the season.

You are down to your 8th string running back by the 3rd game of the season, and as time goes on there are injuries piling up on the O-line.


So you are Greg Davis. Your QB can't throw, or find receivers, your slow receivers can't catch, you have a revolving door at running back and now your O-line is cobbled together with anyone left standing.

Are you going to call plays that ask your slow receivers, who can't catch to stretch the field? The longer the pass, the less accurate the throw. That's just the way it is. Our QB is already struggling with accuracy, and asking him to stand in the pocket a little longer for those deep passes is extremely dangerous with this O-line.

OR...

Would you rather put together a short passing game, with quick, short passes which are much more likely to be completed to your slow receivers who can't catch, coming from your QB who isn't very accurate, behind your O-line that is cobbled together, being supported by ????? at running back?

Given the tools Greg Davis has had to work with, I'd say he's a freaking genius for doing what he has been able to do.

Lets face it, Marvin McNutt made JVB look like Tom Brady last year. In reality, he isn't that great of a QB, but he doesn't tend to make a lot of mistakes which is why KF likes him.
 
Ok. And..GD didn't evaluate the players he had to work with? And having not evaluated his talent or lack of...went ahead with a offensive scheme that didn't work with Texas sized talent but it was supposed to work here? Yeah...Not getting the genius part at all.

McNutt was a decent receiver. Better than what Iowa has now. He was hardly the entire reason Iowa has fell apart this year. Seems there was another guy that was pretty good the year before too. So following your analogy..Stanzi was only good because he had McNutt (second receiver) and DJK?
 
HawkeyeDenis said:
Ok. And..GD didn't evaluate the players he had to work with? And having not evaluated his talent or lack of...went ahead with a offensive scheme that didn't work with an accurate QB but it was supposed to work here? Yeah...Not getting the genius part at all.
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I won't do the pompous 'FIFY' thing, but I think my alteration to the quote above is the biggest deal here. See, e.g., 2009 Texas Longhorns Statistics | College Football at Sports-Reference.com. Colt McCoy was a 70% passer. JVB is ~55%. That said, I agree you need to play to your talent. A ball-control passing attack was destined to fail this year.
 
It is safe to say that with Iowa's receivers as bad as they are this year, and with the situation at running back and now offensive line.... Any offensive system was going to struggle significantly at Iowa this year. Add in a defense that is average at best, and it doesn't add up to much success.
 
if you would watch other games most use a short passing game to control the game all you have to do is look at NW to see how that drove Iowa nuts with the dink and dunk slipping a deep ball in once and awhile..
Oklamoma does the same a short passing game but the big difference is their WR can break off long runs with their speed, long runs inflate stats just look at what happened Indiana turned a busted play into a 75 yard pass reception they also had a 75 yard run to give them 150 yards of offense on just 2 plays, JVB IS NOT A shotgun QB and has a hard time rolling out, the few times he does roll out good things happen,, he is not the QB for GD's system. as for Rudock he is using this year to learn GD's system and Sokol and Beathard are both Red Shirting.. sorry but its called dealing with the hand that is dealt. as for the comment about him changing jobs every 2 years is just BS, HE spent quite a few years with Texas and had them in the top 15 statistically all but 2 times since 2004
 
INTIMIDATORHawk said:
It is safe to say that with Iowa's receivers as bad as they are this year, and with the situation at running back and now offensive line.... Any offensive system was going to struggle significantly at Iowa this year. Add in a defense that is average at best, and it doesn't add up to much success.
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So are you implying that JVB is a very good QB and because of his slow and very poor WR unit that is the reason he is struggling?
 
HawkPrdatr40 said:
So are you implying that JVB is a very good QB and because of his slow and very poor WR unit that is the reason he is struggling?
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I never once said that. In fact, in my original post in this thread, I acknowledged that he is struggling significantly with the 3 & 5 step drops in the GD system. He is used to the 7 step drops in the KOK system. Understandable.

Also, I feel that in 2011, Marvin McNutt made him look an awful lot better than he really is.
 
HawkPrdatr40 said:
So are you implying that JVB is a very good QB and because of his slow and very poor WR unit that is the reason he is struggling?
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Agreed. If it's all on the receivers, and not JVB, then in the event our receivers ever got open he'd be able to get them the ball. Our receivers aren't great but the fact is when they do get open they either aren't seen, or the ball is no where near them. To say the problem is the receivers and not JVB is an absolute joke.
 
I think the problem is with KF. He probably vetos plays he doesn't want run..thus one of the reasons it often takes so long to get a play in.
 
You give a me QB yesterday that can throw accurate passes and hit players in stride and we have ourselves a win yesterday. Iowa left points on the field because of it. I'm not going to take this to a level of blaming WR's saying they slow, or can't catch just not going there based on all I've seen from JVB this season..

.. KMM was wide open on 2 plays yesterday and all JVB had to do was hit him in stride. I would argue that both would have been TD's..
 
JVB is not a shotgun QB nor does he roll out very well, this type of play does not fit with GD system. this is also the difference between JVB and Stanzi or Tate, it would have been interesting to see what GD could have done with those 2
the WR and their speed or supposed like of as I have seen on more than a couple time WR out run JVB's passing range
Smith 4.4 40 listed time backup WR
KMM 4.5 40 listed time starter
Cotton 4.5 40 listed time.
Hillyer 4.5 40 listed time
RS this year
Mabin 4.4 40 listed time
Wilson 4.5 40 listed time
Fleming who people raved about because of his speed 4.5 40 listed time
Hyde looked pretty fast by running that Indiana 4.5 40 listed time
committed but not yet signed
Willies 4.4 40 listed time WR
Wilson 4.5 40 listed time WR
Michell 4.48 40 listed time WR
Harris 4.44 40 listed time WR
Hill 4.44 40 listed time S
Rucker 4.48 40 listed time S
Warfield 4.48 40 listed time S
THE SPEED ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL IS COMING
 
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redhawk55 said:
JVB is not a shotgun QB nor does he roll out very well, this type of play does not fit with GD system. this is also the difference between JVB and Stanzi or Tate, it would have been interesting to see what GD could have done with those 2
the WR and their speed or supposed like of as I have seen on more than a couple time WR out run JVB's passing range
Smith 4.4 40 listed time backup WR
KMM 4.5 40 listed time starter
Cotton 4.5 40 listed time.
Hillyer 4.5 40 listed time
RS this year
Mabin 4.4 40 listed time
Wilson 4.5 40 listed time
Fleming who people raved about because of his speed 4.5 40 listed time
Hyde looked pretty fast by running that Indiana 4.5 40 listed time
committed but not yet signed
W
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Como? Are you saying our wide receivers are too fast for JVB's arm? Nope. I don't think we have quite the dearth of speed that some people often suggest we have at WR, but we don't have an abundance of it. As for Vandy, raw arm strength is about the only thing he has going for him right now.
 
redhawk55 said:
JVB is not a shotgun QB nor does he roll out very well, this type of play does not fit with GD system. this is also the difference between JVB and Stanzi or Tate, it would have been interesting to see what GD could have done with those 2
the WR and their speed or supposed like of as I have seen on more than a couple time WR out run JVB's passing range
Smith 4.4 40 listed time backup WR
KMM 4.5 40 listed time starter
Cotton 4.5 40 listed time.
Hillyer 4.5 40 listed time
RS this year
Mabin 4.4 40 listed time
Wilson 4.5 40 listed time
Fleming who people raved about because of his speed 4.5 40 listed time
Hyde looked pretty fast by running that Indiana 4.5 40 listed time
committed but not yet signed
Willies 4.4 40 listed time WR
Wilson 4.5 40 listed time WR
Michell 4.48 40 listed time WR
Harris 4.44 40 listed time WR
Hill 4.44 40 listed time S
Rucker 4.48 40 listed time S
Warfield 4.48 40 listed time S
THE SPEED ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL IS COMING
Click to expand...
sorry hit the wrong post and posted it before my post was finished
 
Herkyalert said:
People have long said that KOK and the offense was controlled by Kirk. Well I don't buy that with Greg Davis. We are seeing plays and routes that have never been run before. All the WR's and TE's are running 5 yard outs, and rocket screens/sideways passes are frequent. Players just don't seem to be on the same page, and the style does not fit the QB. If you ever listen to post-game interviews, you'll hear that Vandenberg is doing what he is told to do by Greg Davis. The locking on to one WR is something he's been instructed to do. Why does Iowa make the field smaller with those outs? The TE seam route is almost invisible in this scheme and that worked in the past. Listen to the On Iowa podcast from this past week and you'll hear that and more about how bad a fit Greg Davis is here. Iowa doesn't have the guys to run this offense, and never will. Every QB on the roster (and the 1 recruit) is a pro-style QB and that isn't going to work with a horizontal passing game. The play calling is terrible (how many times were the run off tackle stuffed?), and everyone looks lost. Greg Davis was the single worst thing to happen to Iowa football this season. Vandenberg has regressed and isn't comfortable in this new style, and the WR's are not fast enough to make yards after catch, which is what Greg Davis is trying to do.

Kirk Ferentz may run the show but this offense isn't his. Things have changed for the worse and I can only hope the Davis experiment ends after the season. It will only go south from here if he stays folks.
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