This is going to get messy

I'm kinda surprised that courts are touching this to the extent that they are. I figure schools/NCAA could make their own rules about athletic eligibility to this end. But all it takes is one judge.....
 
The NCAA did this to itself back in the 80s and now it finally has to pay the piper. And I love it.

Remember the only people mad about it are 50+ year old affluent white guys who've never met the athletes participating and have no vested interest, but who want said athletes to entertain them (effectively) for free like court jesters under a set of rules that they (old white dudes) get to set.

Funny enough the people mad about this tend to be conservatives who want free market and limited governance, except when it comes to their entertainment.

You folks pissed about this are no different (or less hypocritical) than some tree hugger celebrity whining about carbon emissions and then hopping on his or her private jet 8 times a month.

It's hilarious. Bring the thunder, triggered people. I'm waiting.
 
The NCAA did this to itself back in the 80s and now it finally has to pay the piper. And I love it.

Remember the only people mad about it are 50+ year old affluent white guys who've never met the athletes participating and have no vested interest, but who want said athletes to entertain them (effectively) for free like court jesters under a set of rules that they (old white dudes) get to set.

Funny enough the people mad about this tend to be conservatives who want free market and limited governance, except when it comes to their entertainment.

You folks pissed about this are no different (or less hypocritical) than some tree hugger celebrity whining about carbon emissions and then hopping on his or her private jet 8 times a month.

It's hilarious. Bring the thunder, triggered people. I'm waiting.
Are you inferring from my post that I'm angry about this, or just making a general statement? Either way, definitively stating that all minorities and younger Caucasian fans don't care at all about how this affects college athletics is a grossly generalized hyperbolic statement (at best).

Personally, I find the chaos annoying as I think the instability takes away from the product, but I don't have an issue with the personal liberties aspect of it at all. I posted it because it is an interesting development, not because I'm "pissed." The NCAA has created its own dysfunctional mess, and now that mess is going to get exponentially worse.
 
Either way, definitively stating that all minorities and younger Caucasian fans don't care at all about how this affects college athletics is a grossly generalized hyperbolic statement (at best).
Internet forums basically exist because of hyperbole.

Either way, you implying in a roundabout way that it isn't by far and away older affluent white males pissed about this is pretty ridiculous. You know...since we're being ridiculous on the internet and all.
 
Personally, I find the chaos annoying as I think the instability takes away from the product.
Which is totally fine.

The people mad about his should and do have the choice not to support it or pay money for it (you said yourself it is a "product"), but they want to pass laws restricting it. Which is hilarious hypocrisy. Not saying you are of them.
 
Internet forums basically exist because of hyperbole.

Either way, you implying in a roundabout way that it isn't by far and away older affluent white males pissed about this is pretty ridiculous. You know...since we're being ridiculous on the internet and all.
Not implying anything. It may very well be primarily older white affluent males that are upset. I don't know. Just pointing out that stating that it is "only" that subgroup is a baseless gross over-generalization.
 
Speaking for the almost 50 crowd, for me, its not this specific issue, its just a question of establishing uniform rules that bring order to the college football universe. Right now, it is the wild wild west and I fear that the game could devolve into something unrecognizable from what has made it so popular in the first place.

NIL, transfers, paying players, freedom of movement, conference realignment, superconferences, etc. There a lot of moving parts, and I for one just want a system that is reasonable, fair to all stakeholders in the process, and levels the playing field as much as possible. That cannot happen when you are legislating rules from a feckless governing body (the NCAA) and random hometown judges throughout the country.

What is the most popular sport in this country, ya know, the one that took Sunday away from the church? NFL. Why? They have a tight system that gives all participating teams an equal shot at prevailing. The best run programs do the best. Championships are not for sale. Every fan base can get excited and optimistic every year. The NFL Draft is a stand alone event for that reason.

What sport has been slowly dying for decades? MLB. Why? Only 6-7 teams have any shot at winning a World Series. The MLB draft is a nothing burger.

If wanting uniform and fair rules in place makes me a traditionalist, than I can live with that. The trendline for college football in this regard is not positive, IMHO. I don't much care what the rules are, I just want rules.
 
Speaking for the almost 50 crowd, for me, its not this specific issue, its just a question of establishing uniform rules that bring order to the college football universe. Right now, it is the wild wild west and I fear that the game could devolve into something unrecognizable from what has made it so popular in the first place.

NIL, transfers, paying players, freedom of movement, conference realignment, superconferences, etc. There a lot of moving parts, and I for one just want a system that is reasonable, fair to all stakeholders in the process, and levels the playing field as much as possible. That cannot happen when you are legislating rules from a feckless governing body (the NCAA) and random hometown judges throughout the country.

What is the most popular sport in this country, ya know, the one that took Sunday away from the church? NFL. Why? They have a tight system that gives all participating teams an equal shot at prevailing. The best run programs do the best. Championships are not for sale. Every fan base can get excited and optimistic every year. The NFL Draft is a stand alone event for that reason.

What sport has been slowly dying for decades? MLB. Why? Only 6-7 teams have any shot at winning a World Series. The MLB draft is a nothing burger.

If wanting uniform and fair rules in place makes me a traditionalist, than I can live with that. The trendline for college football in this regard is not positive, IMHO. I don't much care what the rules are, I just want rules.
This is maybe a partial reason for that. Baseball is such a reginal local sport. The draft has never hardly ever had an instant impact due to the nature of the game. Takes 3 yrs or so at the fastest for a kid to get to the big leagues let alone have an impact just about. With some few exceptions. I think pace of play for yrs hindered it just along with how daily life has evolved.

Baseball isn't exciting but for a handful of pitches a game if that. That doesn't hold the interest of younger folks with phones in their hands 24/7. It's been tough for baseball to bring in the next generation of fans as the greatest generation is dying off. But yeah what you said doesn't help any of it either.

Football has always pretty much had the same top 15ish teams jockeying for the top spot realistically every year. With some in the top 30ish range that can occasionally sneak into fighting range for it. But just look at the recent list of champions. It's the same few schools all the time. You gotta go back a long ways to find some one that isn't a Blue Blood of sorts. Maybe the Tebow/Urban Meyer FL yrs and as an SEC school they probably consider themselves a top 15-20 program too.

2022 GA
2021 GA
2020 Bama
2019 LSU
2018 Clemson
2017 Bama
2016 Clemson
2015 Bama
2014 OSU
2013 FSU
2012 Bama
2011 Bama
 
Speaking for the almost 50 crowd, for me, its not this specific issue, its just a question of establishing uniform rules that bring order to the college football universe. Right now, it is the wild wild west and I fear that the game could devolve into something unrecognizable from what has made it so popular in the first place.

NIL, transfers, paying players, freedom of movement, conference realignment, superconferences, etc. There a lot of moving parts, and I for one just want a system that is reasonable, fair to all stakeholders in the process, and levels the playing field as much as possible. That cannot happen when you are legislating rules from a feckless governing body (the NCAA) and random hometown judges throughout the country.

What is the most popular sport in this country, ya know, the one that took Sunday away from the church? NFL. Why? They have a tight system that gives all participating teams an equal shot at prevailing. The best run programs do the best. Championships are not for sale. Every fan base can get excited and optimistic every year. The NFL Draft is a stand alone event for that reason.

What sport has been slowly dying for decades? MLB. Why? Only 6-7 teams have any shot at winning a World Series. The MLB draft is a nothing burger.

If wanting uniform and fair rules in place makes me a traditionalist, than I can live with that. The trendline for college football in this regard is not positive, IMHO. I don't much care what the rules are, I just want rules.
I ok with people wanting things a certain way. If you get philosophical, everything in life boils down to individuals wanting something a certain way.

But people wanting legislation to decide how some kids they've never met and are not in any way affected by play a game with a playground ball is beyond dumb to me. That's where the hilarity comes in.

Speak with wallets (in a general sense...not you individually), and things will change.
 
Not implying anything. It may very well be primarily older white affluent males that are upset. I don't know. Just pointing out that stating that it is "only" that subgroup is a baseless gross over-generalization.
Describe for me a sub group that even remotely falls outside the one I described earlier that's upset about this thing, and support your point. I'll wait.
 
Speaking for the almost 50 crowd, for me, its not this specific issue, its just a question of establishing uniform rules that bring order to the college football universe. Right now, it is the wild wild west and I fear that the game could devolve into something unrecognizable from what has made it so popular in the first place.

NIL, transfers, paying players, freedom of movement, conference realignment, superconferences, etc. There a lot of moving parts, and I for one just want a system that is reasonable, fair to all stakeholders in the process, and levels the playing field as much as possible. That cannot happen when you are legislating rules from a feckless governing body (the NCAA) and random hometown judges throughout the country.

What is the most popular sport in this country, ya know, the one that took Sunday away from the church? NFL. Why? They have a tight system that gives all participating teams an equal shot at prevailing. The best run programs do the best. Championships are not for sale. Every fan base can get excited and optimistic every year. The NFL Draft is a stand alone event for that reason.

What sport has been slowly dying for decades? MLB. Why? Only 6-7 teams have any shot at winning a World Series. The MLB draft is a nothing burger.

If wanting uniform and fair rules in place makes me a traditionalist, than I can live with that. The trendline for college football in this regard is not positive, IMHO. I don't much care what the rules are, I just want rules.

I am not sure college football is becoming any less asymmetrical, however. There are 125+ FBS teams, and a shocking few have actually had a realistic chance at a championship over the past couple decades:

1702572863432.png

Are these developments going to make things any worse than they have been?
 
I ok with people wanting things a certain way. If you get philosophical, everything in life boils down to individuals wanting something a certain way.

But people wanting legislation to decide how some kids they've never met and are not in any way affected by play a game with a playground ball is beyond dumb to me. That's where the hilarity comes in.

Speak with wallets (in a general sense...not you individually), and things will change.
That's where I'm just a tiny bit surprised at the courts involvement in it. As far as them shaking the tree about it anyway and going against what's always been the case. I just figured the NCAA/schools can make eligibility rules for sports. The courts aren't going to tell the NBA they gotta do away with their 1 yr out of HS rule or however it's worded. They can and have gone back and forth on that and probably will again. This is somewhat of a similar thing in that it's just a matter of eligibility amongst the kids moving around. I don't care either way if kids can or can't.

I remember going back to Sam Okey and then Uthoff cases and thinking how dumb those were. Wisconsins Bo Ryan came off as such a tool in Uthoffs case. As far as I'm concerned allowing players to come and go when they want and be eligible right away across the board just cleans up all the confusion and simplifies it all. Can't say it's not fair everyone is in the same boat.
 
I am not sure college football is becoming any less asymmetrical, however. There are 125+ FBS teams, and a shocking few have actually had a realistic chance at a championship over the past couple decades:

View attachment 10557

Are these developments going to make things any worse than they have been?
Fair point. The one thing that I did not mention that will positively impact parity to some extent is playoff expansion. For years, humans picked the champions by simple voting. Then a computer helped us narrow it down to two teams to play each other for the title. Now, we have a committee picking 4 teams. Given the sheer volume of teams that were eligible, and most of them don't play each other, it was by definition a very exclusive clubhouse based a lot upon eye test and reputation. With 12 teams, programs like Iowa will get into the mix. Once you start playing real games, as opposed to paper match-ups, anything can happen. We will see someone not on that list in the next 5 years. Mark my word. And, just making the playoffs for programs like Iowa will be a really big deal. This will keep fan bases engaged.

But, I still believe that uniform rules, that are reasonable, and that are actually enforced with teeth, would be a benefit to the sport as well. A boy can dream.
 
That's where I'm just a tiny bit surprised at the courts involvement in it. As far as them shaking the tree about it anyway and going against what's always been the case. I just figured the NCAA/schools can make eligibility rules for sports. The courts aren't going to tell the NBA they gotta do away with their 1 yr out of HS rule or however it's worded. They can and have gone back and forth on that and probably will again. This is somewhat of a similar thing in that it's just a matter of eligibility amongst the kids moving around. I don't care either way if kids can or can't.

I remember going back to Sam Okey and then Uthoff cases and thinking how dumb those were. Wisconsins Bo Ryan came off as such a tool in Uthoffs case. As far as I'm concerned allowing players to come and go when they want and be eligible right away across the board just cleans up all the confusion and simplifies it all. Can't say it's not fair everyone is in the same boat.
It'd be different if there was public money being paid to these kids. But that would introduce 9,528 other problems, so the point is moot, tbh.

These kids' room, board, and tuition is paid for with athletic department funds generated from athletic department activities that are funded from private entities.
 
I ok with people wanting things a certain way. If you get philosophical, everything in life boils down to individuals wanting something a certain way.

But people wanting legislation to decide how some kids they've never met and are not in any way affected by play a game with a playground ball is beyond dumb to me. That's where the hilarity comes in.

Speak with wallets (in a general sense...not you individually), and things will change.
You moderate a board that is premised upon a bunch of old dudes sitting around chatting about that playground game played by 20 year olds all day long. Half of what we do here is talk about what is wrong with the sport and our team. If we take a step back and frame it these terms, the whole thing is pretty silly. That said, here we are...

I agree with the voting with your wallet concept. I have not watched a single MLB game since before the pandemic. I grew up a Cubs fan, and was also a Royals fan when living in KC. Both teams got a title. I cried during both. But, its just not interesting anymore when your team has no hope. Sports that isolate huge swaths of their fan bases from any meaningful involvement in the sport do so at their own peril.
 
Describe for me a sub group that even remotely falls outside the one I described earlier that's upset about this thing, and support your point. I'll wait.
That's not really the point. As I said, it may very well be primarily older white men, but to state that it is "only" older white men is an absolute and therefore an over-generalization. I can pretty much guarantee that there will be people outside of that demographic that are not going to like how this impacts college sports.

I agree in principle with what you are saying. The "product" is and always has been primarily supported and driven by our Anglo-American society. I just see an over-generalization with the statement. If you don't, that's fine.
 
But, I still believe that uniform rules, that are reasonable, and that are actually enforced with teeth, would be a benefit to the sport as well. A boy can dream.
I know you already know this, but "benefit to the sport" is 100% subjective.

A more succinct way for me to put it is...more beneficial to you or more beneficial to the athlete who's directly affected? And you can't suggest "better for the institution" because the institution is the athletes themselves. Any other illusion of the institution being bigger than the athletes falls apart because then you're back to the guy sitting on his couch with no stake in the matter.

Ask an athlete if allowing immediate transfers would be beneficial to the sport and I guarantee you his answer would be different than a rabid traditionalist football fan who's about to lose his team's star QB.

Philosophically, is it better to do things that improve an athlete's chance at wealth/opportunity the same as any other career where labor is traded for compensation (we don't need to be obtuse and say these athletes are doing this for amateur recreation), or better to satisfy the whims of an unaffected non-stakeholder sitting on his couch, who has zero relationship with or tie to said athlete? See how that makes no sense?

We say we'd be affected even if it's very indirectly, but be truthful...if an athlete at your favorite school is allowed an immediate transfer and leaves, and your team goes 2-9 the next year...are you actually affected other than your pride? The answer is no. You have a choice to buy tickets, TV subscriptions, and hoodies. Is the athlete directly affected by the same rule? Yep.

But the NFL has rules and regs you say, right? And it's the most popular and lucrative sport in America. You're correct. But players have representation and through collective bargaining have agreed to a system that makes it's best players worth nine figures. There is no such system in college football. I argue that such a system would be impossible to implement because it's best players are in the system 3 years tops, and usually 1 of those years is on the sidelines as a redshirt freshman. Do you imagine an 18 year old college redshirt freshman trying desperately to stay uninjured and make a starting spot on his team to be a savvy negotiator, and do you expect that demographic to get good counsel in those matters when they have no money to pay for it? And what incentive does an intelligent, driven college senior player have to advocate for his forthcoming peers when he's about to go make millions in the NFL/NBA anyway?

At the end of the day we are all just men and women who like to watch kids play a bouncy ball game wearing a certain color jersey that we grew up liking. There is no moral ground where we should have a say in what they do when no public money is involved. We try to invent that moral ground to stand on because we have this idyllic apple pie version of the way things "should be."

I respect someone who says, "I want college sports to be regulated because that's the way I like it, dammit," a million times more than someone who tries to come up with 100 different cockamamie legal reasons why it should, which is what we see on social media and TV today. At least the former is honest about it.

We all know deep down why we want college sports regulated to the hilt. And it ain't because of what's best for athletes.
 

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