This hurts to say, but...

Pretty straight forward. People do lie. People do say what is expedient. Except for no investigations, we have no other evidence pro or con.

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fair enough, but if Fran's cheating, he's not doing it right and you would have imagined that DJ would still have Iowa on his list.
 
I wonder if Carton has a different opinion of Michigan if they miss that miracle shot in the 2nd round last year. I know it changed the perception of them on this board. I put almost zero stock in lucky tournament runs.
Michigan has made several nice tournament runs this decade. Two national title game appearances, one Elite Eight, one Sweet Sixteen, conference tournament championships.

Most teams who get there multiple times do it as the result of a lucky shot once in a while. Bronson Koenig knocked, (was it Texas A&M?) out with a buzzer beater after Zack Showalter took a charge.
 
Nobody is upset Iowa just missed out on Carton, it's the culmination of missing out on all of the top PG prospects on a year in and year out basis. I would venture to say Iowa hasn't landed it's top PG target since Pierre Pierce which was 18 years ago!
Iowa fans don't expect to win recruiting battles against the blue bloods but we have fewer 4* on our team than Rutgers, Nebraska, Iowa State, and Creighton (of which we have more basketball tradition than all of them) just off the top of my head . It's not unreasonable to expect to recruit better than those programs.
 
Nobody is upset Iowa just missed out on Carton, it's the culmination of missing out on all of the top PG prospects on a year in and year out basis. I would venture to say Iowa hasn't landed it's top PG target since Pierre Pierce which was 18 years ago!
Iowa fans don't expect to win recruiting battles against the blue bloods but we have fewer 4* on our team than Rutgers, Nebraska, Iowa State, and Creighton (of which we have more basketball tradition than all of them) just off the top of my head . It's not unreasonable to expect to recruit better than those programs.

you aint wrong. I do think Mike G was our top pg prospect tho. But its a cumulative of things that have Iowa fans getting pissy. I get it. I'm there. They have only 1 thing they can do to sway my opinion back to a "ok, let's see"
 
you aint wrong. I do think Mike G was our top pg prospect tho. But its a cumulative of things that have Iowa fans getting pissy. I get it. I'm there. They have only 1 thing they can do to sway my opinion back to a "ok, let's see"

That would be Marcus Paige
 
I didn't think it was all that controversial of a podcast TBH. I agree in a way with both of them. On one hand, Iowa is a pretty middle-of-the-road basketball program historically. On the other hand, Iowa's paying their coach a TON of money and it's not like tickets and gear is half-price when Iowa sucks, so I have a difficult time stirring up a lot of sympathy for anyone involved when they're not getting it done.
 
I've heard Deace get it 100% right and I've heard him get it 100% wrong. Depends on the day and the topic. What podcast are we discussing?


^^^^^^This. Sometimes all the analogies work, sometimes they don’t. He makes a living and a very good one by having strong opinions so whom am I to judge.
 
These type of guys want to play right away, be competitive, and hope for NBA. How many of you would take a top job where the guy you will be competing with is the boss's son? Seriously how many? You think that you'd also think there will be room for the other son somewhere? Cuts down minutes.

14 losses hurt. Fran puts no one in the NBA. Fran doesn't use a real pt guard. All important but 2ndary issues.

Kid from my town never started a hs football game as was back up QB. He went to a BIG camp and was given a free ride at the BIG U, never having played HS QB. Who do you think was the QB that started over him?
I am supremely lucky that my kid loves to catch and is one of only about 5 kids on his team who wants to pitch. None of the other kids are interested to try catching. I’ve never had to deal with that as a coach and never will unless something changes drastically between now and next spring.
 
Deace is also a disinterested party who doesn’t have the highs when the Hawks win and the lows when they lose. Being a Michigan fan on a Hawkeye podcast isn’t exactly stressful as long as you understand the sports and the environment of the NCAA (i.e. you’re able to hold intelligent sports conversation) In Jon’s defense I’d be jaded as hell by now and either bored or sick of doing an Iowa podcast. You can only talk about the rinse and repeat for so long.
 
These type of guys want to play right away, be competitive, and hope for NBA. How many of you would take a top job where the guy you will be competing with is the boss's son? Seriously how many? You think that you'd also think there will be room for the other son somewhere? Cuts down minutes.

14 losses hurt. Fran puts no one in the NBA. Fran doesn't use a real pt guard. All important but 2ndary issues.

Kid from my town never started a hs football game as was back up QB. He went to a BIG camp and was given a free ride at the BIG U, never having played HS QB. Who do you think was the QB that started over him?

Connor, Patrick or one of the Ferentz boys? All formidable QBs at one time....
 
I didn't think it was all that controversial of a podcast TBH. I agree in a way with both of them. On one hand, Iowa is a pretty middle-of-the-road basketball program historically. On the other hand, Iowa's paying their coach a TON of money and it's not like tickets and gear is half-price when Iowa sucks, so I have a difficult time stirring up a lot of sympathy for anyone involved when they're not getting it done.
I haven't listened to the podcast, but I will add that Iowa's men's basketball program isn't historically "middle of the road."

I don't recall which publication it was - perhaps SI or Sport magazine - but there was an article maybe 10 years ago or so ranking the top college basketball programs of all time, and Iowa was in the top ten. The program had great success in the 40s and 50s and mid to late 60s, then again in the late 70s through the eighties. We've just been in a prolonged rut recently, starting with the hire of Alford and compounded by LIck.
 
I do NOT think Fran develops players and he certainly doesnt possess a working knowledge of defense. At the same time, i think Iowa not putting players in the NBA is an indictment of the lack of talent that we can attract more than attracting great talent and not developing it. With the exception of Uthoff, we havent had real NBA talent on our roster. Yes, i think Uthoff should be playing at some level in the NBA.

In our history, 29 Hawks have played in the NBA. Only three have avg'd 10 + ppg. 11 of the 29 played for Mr. Davis. Hawkeye basketball in the 2000's....mediocre would be a gift.
 
I haven't listened to the podcast, but I will add that Iowa's men's basketball program isn't historically "middle of the road."

I don't recall which publication it was - perhaps SI or Sport magazine - but there was an article maybe 10 years ago or so ranking the top college basketball programs of all time, and Iowa was in the top ten. The program had great success in the 40s and 50s and mid to late 60s, then again in the late 70s through the eighties. We've just been in a prolonged rut recently, starting with the hire of Alford and compounded by LIck.


Yes. Iowa basketball is a storied program with a rich tradition.

The timeline of Iowa's fall from relevance in my mind goes like this. Roy Williams stabs the beast and leaves it to bleed out. By picking Iowa's pocket for Collision, LaFrentz and Hinrich Roy really started a massive blood letting. Those guys playing for Tom Davis is a guaranteed Final 4 banner hanging in Carver. Instead the best our state has starts heading elsewhere to play ball. This cost Mr. Davis his job at Iowa and started the nasty tailspin for Iowa basketball.

Alford promptly came in and disgraced the program. He treated his players like they were above rules. His handling of Pierce left quite a bit to be desired. Pierce wasn't the only problem we had at the time though. Alford bread an environment that gave athletes superiority. Therefore bringing the bad stuff on himself. You will notice these things have followed the man at every stop. Both NM and UCLA have had player incidents. While individually they are of no fault of Alford's the pattern highlights the environment he builds. I will say this in defense of the man though. I believe he is a good coach and a heck of a recruiter. Alford might have been able to land a Harrison Barnes or Marcus Paige. He just wasn't a good fit, because he wanted to be beyond reproach, and he wanted special benefits for his players. I believe this led to the massive over reaction of Gary Barta by searching for a choir boy as replacement coach.

That leads up to possibly the worst 3 years of basketball that I have ever witnessed. Lickliter doesn't even deserve the print I have already given.

That leads way to Fran. Fran makes the necessary progress to get the team competitive again. In 7 seasons he has built 2 teams that were top 25 material. Both of those teams came up short when it mattered the most. The rate that Fran builds a good team is similar to the rate that Ferentz does it in football. I could indeed live with only having a really good team every four years if the other 3 years they were at least slightly better than average. Last season saw Fran's stock plummet to a new low. If Fran doesn't change the needle in a big way this season though I don't see how he survives another revival.
 
Yes. Iowa basketball is a storied program with a rich tradition.

The timeline of Iowa's fall from relevance in my mind goes like this. Roy Williams stabs the beast and leaves it to bleed out. By picking Iowa's pocket for Collision, LaFrentz and Hinrich Roy really started a massive blood letting. Those guys playing for Tom Davis is a guaranteed Final 4 banner hanging in Carver. Instead the best our state has starts heading elsewhere to play ball. This cost Mr. Davis his job at Iowa and started the nasty tailspin for Iowa basketball.

Alford promptly came in and disgraced the program. He treated his players like they were above rules. His handling of Pierce left quite a bit to be desired. Pierce wasn't the only problem we had at the time though. Alford bread an environment that gave athletes superiority. Therefore bringing the bad stuff on himself. You will notice these things have followed the man at every stop. Both NM and UCLA have had player incidents. While individually they are of no fault of Alford's the pattern highlights the environment he builds. I will say this in defense of the man though. I believe he is a good coach and a heck of a recruiter. Alford might have been able to land a Harrison Barnes or Marcus Paige. He just wasn't a good fit, because he wanted to be beyond reproach, and he wanted special benefits for his players. I believe this led to the massive over reaction of Gary Barta by searching for a choir boy as replacement coach.

That leads up to possibly the worst 3 years of basketball that I have ever witnessed. Lickliter doesn't even deserve the print I have already given.

That leads way to Fran. Fran makes the necessary progress to get the team competitive again. In 7 seasons he has built 2 teams that were top 25 material. Both of those teams came up short when it mattered the most. The rate that Fran builds a good team is similar to the rate that Ferentz does it in football. I could indeed live with only having a really good team every four years if the other 3 years they were at least slightly better than average. Last season saw Fran's stock plummet to a new low. If Fran doesn't change the needle in a big way this season though I don't see how he survives another revival.
That sums it up pretty well.

I have to disagree somewhat on Alford. He really wasn't that great of a recruiter. Craig Neal, however, was pretty good, and kept Alford above water for the most part. Nevertheless, he missed on a lot of top recruits yearly. Much like Fran, he was always in the mix, but struggled to bring in the top targets. Also much like Fran, his team's performances were wildly inconsistent.

Mr. Davis's downfall wasn't just those misses, though those were the high profile ones. Keeping it real, he always was a fairly average recruiter who won primarily with his system (and, the rumor was that he always hated the recruiting aspect of being a college coach and let Pearl and Close do most of the heavy lifting). We saw early on what can happen when you combine his system with great recruits, but, his conference record without those first 3 seasons (where he relied on Raveling's recruits) was only 90 - 87. I loved Tom, but, after after suffering through the next two dumpster fire coaches, fans probably have applied a little revisionist history to his legacy. I think his situation was a classic example of "The enemy of good is better." Fans just wanted a little more.

As for Fran, with that contract, he'll survive at least another 3-4 seasons. I could see his seat becoming a little warm with a repeat of last season, but, unless Barta is fired with him, I don't see him going anywhere anytime soon.
 
[QUOTE="#1DieHardHawk, post: unless Barta is fired with him, I don't see him going anywhere anytime soon.[/QUOTE]


I don't know. Barta really has no choice if the boosters turn completely on Fran. If Barta can't raise money he will have to make a move. That could happen overnight. It is what happened to Davis. Boosters wanted a change and they got it. Most of them are a lot more cautious now.
 
In this particular list, the Hawkeyes do not crack the top 100.....

https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/best-college-basketball-schools

Clones are listed at 45.....

Northern Iowa at 86.....

And the Iona Gaels at 101.....

No credit for the Ralph Miller, Mr. Davis or especially the Bucky O'Conner teams that made the Final Four one year and the Championship Game the next where they lost to Bill Russel's San Francisco Dons.....

Damn

:cool:
 

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