lightning1
Well-Known Member
I was under the impression that Jake was fine and would be starting. Did I miss something? Why do people seem to think that CJ is going to start or even play a significant amount?
This game is a audition for CJ
- Thread starter QuadCityHawkeye
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ThunderHawk
Well-Known Member
Before you all settle on Riddick being safer, please recall the atrocious INTs in the meatchicken and northern Illinois games last year.
Beathard is far more talented. His status as backup is a reflection of Kurt's cowardice and slavish loyalty. Nothing more.
And also please recall Vandenberg circa 2012. What's your excuse for Kurt sticking with that basket case?
Beathard is far more talented. His status as backup is a reflection of Kurt's cowardice and slavish loyalty. Nothing more.
And also please recall Vandenberg circa 2012. What's your excuse for Kurt sticking with that basket case?
ThunderHawk
Well-Known Member
Translation: the victory over Pitt was a function of a hit by a defender, not a function of smart coaching.
I am so, so shocked.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I think the difference is CJ read that Powell had man coverage on the outside. He then knew that Powell could outrun the DB, even though when he released the ball Powell hadn't gotten separation yet, and he also threw the ball to only where Powell could get it. CJ's read was better, as JR was gonna throw that ball deep to Powell no matter what and he threw into coverage with the safety over the top. The safer play was CJ's read and throw, not JR who threw into double coverage.
I think you are forgetting how awful CJB looked most of the time last year as well. Please post his stat line from the game against Wisky.
Please post his overall numbers from last year if you want to drag JR's performance last year into it.
I'll hang up and listen.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I think the real problem with JR and the deep ball is that as I state with the Powell throw, even though it was on the money, it was the wrong read (unless the staff was so desperate to have JR throw deep that they told him that was his only read for that play). The other issue is when he should throw deep (as he did with Vandenberg with 1 v 1 coverage) he throws a jump ball that could have just as easily been picked. I think the Defense says, no problem, good catch, we will stay in this coverage and take our chances again. It didn't take the D out of its gameplan of crowding the LOS, and bringing the safeties up. Keep in mind this was all after the deep throw to Powell.
Fast forward to CJ. Dude goes deep early just like JR. CJ reads the 1 v 1 coverage, determines his progressions pre snap, sees Powell is gonna beat his man, throws with confidence, and hits his man. For the entirety of the rest of the game, the D backed off. No more crowding the LOS, no more safeties in the box, and big cushions for the WR's on the outside.
Now I wasn't banging the drum for CJ before this. I think this performance was worth putting him in for an entire game. The reason begin, you can see how an opponent will prepare for CJ, how they will defend the offense with CJ in the game, and then determine going forward what QB forces the Defense to play honest, so you can be most successful. It could very well be that with a new QB the D blitzes every down, and makes CJ beat him. If he can't read those, beat the blitz, he might not be any better than JR.
Fast forward to CJ. Dude goes deep early just like JR. CJ reads the 1 v 1 coverage, determines his progressions pre snap, sees Powell is gonna beat his man, throws with confidence, and hits his man. For the entirety of the rest of the game, the D backed off. No more crowding the LOS, no more safeties in the box, and big cushions for the WR's on the outside.
Now I wasn't banging the drum for CJ before this. I think this performance was worth putting him in for an entire game. The reason begin, you can see how an opponent will prepare for CJ, how they will defend the offense with CJ in the game, and then determine going forward what QB forces the Defense to play honest, so you can be most successful. It could very well be that with a new QB the D blitzes every down, and makes CJ beat him. If he can't read those, beat the blitz, he might not be any better than JR.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
I never disagreed with tm regarding CJ's talent and potential. Which means I agree with most of what you're saying as well. I said before that his performance during the Pitt game should at the very least give him the opportunity to earn the starting role.
I'm just not going to be so quick to anoint him the clear starter over Jake when he's only played one good half of football in a live game. That's not necessarily his fault because he can't play unless the coaches put him on the field. Jake has played quite a bit and had plenty of good halves. However, I tend to believe the coaches have seen some things in practice out of CJ that are worrisome, and I'm cautiously sitting back hoping those things don't emerge on the field. Maybe Kirk just isn't playing him because he's too conservative and Jake is his guy. I'm not a big believer in that philosophy though.
I'm optimistic about what CJ can do after what we saw in the Pitt game. I hope he gets the chance to further prove himself on the field. It would be a mistake by Kirk not to give him that chance. Until I have more evidence that he is hands down better than Jake I'm going to refrain from making those statements because I don't know what goes on behind the scenes.
DesMoinesHawki
Well-Known Member
My two cents: If CJ comes out and has a strong performance and leads us to a solid win against Purdue: the starting job is his ... Homecoming and Indiana are there for the taking for CJ but he has to have a strong performance Saturday or "right back to the bench you go young man" if he stumbles because we all know Kirk likes to go with the solid practice players ... CJ, this is your one and only chance to win the starting job for the remainder of 2014 ... I am guessing this dilemna drives Kirk crazy because we know how loyal he is to certain players ... and I am guessing it would eat him up inside if he had to tell Jake he is now the backup ... I also believe Kirk hates to give the appearance he is buckling to fan or media wants/expectations. Kirk also knows the fan and media attention is on seeing CJ ... and so Kirk will give it a go but if it that experiment trips at all, Kirk will give us his "smugness" that says, 'see, I told you ...'
This is pure speculation on my part, but based off of KF's comments, he is going to have a hard time not starting Jake because he thinks he is such a good, smart kid. He does everything the coaches tell him, and he works hard.
From what I saw last year, I was good with Jake starting. But from what I've seen this year, CJ needs to be the started, no matter how good of guy Jake is. He has more talent, brings more energy, and gives defenses more to think about.
ThunderHawk
Well-Known Member
Before we get too hung up on what may or may not transpire during practice, please keep in mind that future Hall of Famers Tom Brady and Kurt Warner were there in practice every day and freaking elite NFL coaches couldn't even recognize what they had.
Or, closer to home, Brad AP Player of the Year Banks. Ricky America F Yeah Stanzi.
It's the games that matter. Period, full stop.
I don't know how good or bad Beathard is. Maybe he'll implode like a dying star. I know he's got talent, though. I want to see it.
Or, closer to home, Brad AP Player of the Year Banks. Ricky America F Yeah Stanzi.
It's the games that matter. Period, full stop.
I don't know how good or bad Beathard is. Maybe he'll implode like a dying star. I know he's got talent, though. I want to see it.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's unfair speculation given the type of guy Kirk Ferentz is. I actually think your intuition is probably pretty accurate. That's not a bad thing either. Naturally, Kirk wants to see high character guys who are leaders and have incredible work ethics do well. That's human nature as a coach. Jake has given his all for the team, and it's absolutely not an easy position to be in if you're stuck in a position where you may have to bench him because someone else is better.
With that said, it isn't the right decision for a coach to play a kid simply because you believe he deserves it and you want to see him do well. The right coaching decision is to play the best player. If another guy is outperforming him then he deserves to play. In football you earn your spot by performing on the field. By no accounts is CJ a bad kid off the field either. From everything I've heard he's an outstanding young man as well, and he's handled being the backup with poise. If he's playing better then he deserves to be the guy. I know Kirk is in an incredibly difficult position because either way one of them is going to be upset, but you risk losing the team if you play a guy based upon anything other than performance.
ThunderHawk
Well-Known Member
You can post his stat line against Wisky. I'll refer you to the second half of the Pitt game.
I'll hang up and listen coach.
Not sure last year is relevant. CJB played much better against Pitt than at any point last year. He's improved. We beat the best team we played so far albiet with a much improved game plan. On the flip side, we squeaked by UNI, Ball State (a really bad team) and got beat by ISU.
