The Shadow spring football tidbits

WinOneThisCentury said:
Although I know losing MacMillan and Gettis really hurt, it was one offensive line position and it wasn't like we threw a freshman in there. I think it hurt the running game more than the passing game,
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You are wrong. Josh and James made up the smallest tandem in the middle of the line in the Big Ten BY FAR. Guys basically steamrolled the middle of that line in those games. Stanzi didn't even have time to finish his drop before he had someone in his lap. If James was not an already small center, it might not have been so bad. But, although nasty, size is not his strong suit.

Now, KOK could have realized this and made the necessary adjustments to roll the pocket away from that pressure. But that is asking a bit much.
 
CAARHawk said:
You are wrong. Josh and James made up the smallest tandem in the middle of the line in the Big Ten BY FAR. Guys basically steamrolled the middle of that line in those games. Stanzi didn't even have time to finish his drop before he had someone in his lap. If James was not an already small center, it might not have been so bad. But, although nasty, size is not his strong suit.

Now, KOK could have realized this and made the necessary adjustments to roll the pocket away from that pressure. But that is asking a bit much.
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When you combine an undersized interior OL with the fact that ARob was concussed ... that made things even tougher on Stanzi.

And yes, it definitely also hurt our running game too.
 
CAARHawk said:
You are wrong. Josh and James made up the smallest tandem in the middle of the line in the Big Ten BY FAR. Guys basically steamrolled the middle of that line in those games. Stanzi didn't even have time to finish his drop before he had someone in his lap. If James was not an already small center, it might not have been so bad. But, although nasty, size is not his strong suit.

Now, KOK could have realized this and made the necessary adjustments to roll the pocket away from that pressure. But that is asking a bit much.
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Man, I may have to go back and watch those games because I thought Stanzi had time to throw against those teams, especially against NW and Minnesota. I know OSU brought pressure, but I still think he had time to get the ball out most of the time. We had so many chances in the Wisconsin, NW, OSU, and Minny games to put points on the board in the second half and we couldn't execute. I'm not saying it's all Stanzi's fault, but great QB's make great plays when their team needs them right. I thought he was great in 2009 at critical times, but, for some reason he just didn't make the plays down the stretch in the 2010 games. His mistake in the NW game (interception deep in their territory) really was the play of that game. I can't believe KOK was telling him to throw deep into coverage...into the wind. A bonehead throw at a CRITICAL time.

The funny thing is, I like Stanzi alot and am a big fan, but you have to call it like you see it and I just don't think he was good with the game on the line in 2010.
 
homerHAWKeye777 said:
When you combine an undersized interior OL with the fact that ARob was concussed ... that made things even tougher on Stanzi.

And yes, it definitely also hurt our running game too.
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Coker was a better running back at the end of the year than Robinson and I'm talking about from the Indiana game on so I don't view the Arob concussion as major. If you are saying having to rely on Coker in the passing game hurt us, I get that as he was maybe tentative on protection and doesn't have Arob's feel for the passing game. But he should have been seeing the ball more at the end of the year because he was the better runner.

We ran the ball decent at the end of the year...Coker had over a 100 against Indiana, Robinson had over a 100 against NW, and Coker had 70 against OSU and 90 against Minnesota in limited carries. OSU had one of the best run defenses in the country, top 3 I believe, so we knew we wouldn't get much there.

He wasn't good against NW or Minnesota and that was the bottom line. I know the weather wasn't good, but 10-22 against that defense was terrible. He was only sacked one time against Minnesota also, so it wasn't the pressure. Against NW, they had three sacks, but I think two were in the last minute or drive. I just don't remember the pressure being that great on Stanzi in those games. Maybe I'm getting old.
 
Deacon said:
Worst coaching decision of the season? I vote for leaving Arob in late in the MSU game.
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Doesn't hold a candle to the decision to not play Coker the entire game against OSU or not calling a time out late against WI.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
Coker was a better running back at the end of the year than Robinson and I'm talking about from the Indiana game on so I don't view the Arob concussion as major. If you are saying having to rely on Coker in the passing game hurt us, I get that as he was maybe tentative on protection and doesn't have Arob's feel for the passing game. But he should have been seeing the ball more at the end of the year because he was the better runner.

We ran the ball decent at the end of the year...Coker had over a 100 against Indiana, Robinson had over a 100 against NW, and Coker had 70 against OSU and 90 against Minnesota in limited carries. OSU had one of the best run defenses in the country, top 3 I believe, so we knew we wouldn't get much there.

He wasn't good against NW or Minnesota and that was the bottom line. I know the weather wasn't good, but 10-22 against that defense was terrible. He was only sacked one time against Minnesota also, so it wasn't the pressure. Against NW, they had three sacks, but I think two were in the last minute or drive. I just don't remember the pressure being that great on Stanzi in those games. Maybe I'm getting old.
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I don't doubt that Coker is the better runner. However, my remark was placing extra emphasis on ARob's important role in pass-pro, route-running, and catching the ball. Past the MSU game, concussion issues clearly hampered him for the whole latter part of the season. You don't get 2 concussions within a few game period and still end up being "okay."

As for my remark about the impact on the running game, the context was supporting CAARHawk's post about our injuries on the interior OL. It impacted our O on many different fronts ... and a big facet was in the running game too.

An important part of a quality running game with most teams (including within our program) is the ability to utilize a few RBs and be able to scheme their contrasting skill-sets to exploit the opposition. Iowa's running game would have been better last year, late in the season, with BOTH a healthy and productive Coker and ARob. Given the contrasting successes of Russell and Lewis in 2002, you couldn't conclude that one RB was the better based on their productivity in a game or two.
 
Homer, I get what you are saying and I have no doubt that Arob's injury and the fact that both Gettis and MacMillan got hurt impacted the passing game. I will just argue the point that Stanzi had still had opportunities to make plays even in light of those situations. He didn't play great in the 2nd half against NW, OSU, or Minnesota...and in the NW and Minnesota games he had huge turnovers that killed us.

It's funny, in 2009 he threw the ball all over the place, yet made play after play at absolutely critical times to win games. In 2010, statistically he made great strides, but in all the games we lost, he was somewhat ineffective when he had chances to put the game away or win the game at the end. I don't count the Arizona game even remotely on Stanzi. Our offensive line got whipped at the end...and McNutt's tipped pick six absolutely killed us...and the blocked punt...and, well you know the story.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
Homer, I get what you are saying and I have no doubt that Arob's injury and the fact that both Gettis and MacMillan got hurt impacted the passing game. I will just argue the point that Stanzi had still had opportunities to make plays even in light of those situations. He didn't play great in the 2nd half against NW, OSU, or Minnesota...and in the NW and Minnesota games he had huge turnovers that killed us.

It's funny, in 2009 he threw the ball all over the place, yet made play after play at absolutely critical times to win games. In 2010, statistically he made great strides, but in all the games we lost, he was somewhat ineffective when he had chances to put the game away or win the game at the end. I don't count the Arizona game even remotely on Stanzi. Our offensive line got whipped at the end...and McNutt's tipped pick six absolutely killed us...and the blocked punt...and, well you know the story.
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The weather also turned, which makes passing tougher. Stanzi did not play as well overall in November, and not just last season. That's typical in this part of the country. The injuries compounded that.
 
tm3308 said:
The weather also turned, which makes passing tougher. Stanzi did not play as well overall in November, and not just last season. That's typical in this part of the country. The injuries compounded that.
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I believe that given the following factors ....

1. Excellent level of experience, talent, and depth on the OL
2. Coker's health + a guy stepping up from the pool of Johnson/Coe/McCall
3. The extra little "zip" that Vandenberg puts on his passes


... that the Iowa O will be more effective in adverse weather conditions. Thus, in addition to being a good nice-weather O ... our O will also be pretty good in bad weather too. Improved consistency in the running game will be huge. Furthermore, the ability to execute a more "precise" quick passing game will also help. Given our RB issues, injuries on the OL, and Stanzi's passing "style" ... our running game lacked consistency and our passing game was a bit too reliant on the ability to "go vertical." I really don't believe that that will be the case in 2011.
 
homerHAWKeye777 said:
I believe that given the following factors ....

1. Excellent level of experience, talent, and depth on the OL
2. Coker's health + a guy stepping up from the pool of Johnson/Coe/McCall
3. The extra little "zip" that Vandenberg puts on his passes


... that the Iowa O will be more effective in adverse weather conditions. Thus, in addition to being a good nice-weather O ... our O will also be pretty good in bad weather too. Improved consistency in the running game will be huge. Furthermore, the ability to execute a more "precise" quick passing game will also help. Given our RB issues, injuries on the OL, and Stanzi's passing "style" ... our running game lacked consistency and our passing game was a bit too reliant on the ability to "go vertical." I really don't believe that that will be the case in 2011.
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I couldn't agree more. I just can't foresee a situation where our offense won't be able to score on other teams due to the things you mention. You are right on with our tendency to go "vertical" last year, rather than get the 6-7 yards to keep the drive going with an accurate timing pass. As you mention, this also resulted in inconsistency and inability to move the chains and play keep away from opposing offenses. Maybe I'm in offseason fantasy land, but I think our offense is going to be very, very difficult to stop and will score points in bunches. The key is obviously Vandenberg, but I just think the kid is going to be great. He has years now in the program...has tasted the pressure and spotlight and now he is eager to show what he has. I honestly think this could be one of the best offensive teams we have had...1985 good. We will see.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
I couldn't agree more. I just can't foresee a situation where our offense won't be able to score on other teams due to the things you mention. You are right on with our tendency to go "vertical" last year, rather than get the 6-7 yards to keep the drive going with an accurate timing pass. As you mention, this also resulted in inconsistency and inability to move the chains and play keep away from opposing offenses. Maybe I'm in offseason fantasy land, but I think our offense is going to be very, very difficult to stop and will score points in bunches. The key is obviously Vandenberg, but I just think the kid is going to be great. He has years now in the program...has tasted the pressure and spotlight and now he is eager to show what he has. I honestly think this could be one of the best offensive teams we have had...1985 good. We will see.
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I'm not certain that just one ingredient is "the key." To me, I think that the OL + Vandenberg + Coker + McNutt are really the central ingredients. If those elements can all remain adequately healthy and play at a high level ... then our O will be VERY good. If other guys also step up an contribute as we'd hope ... like Davis, Herman, Fiedorowicz, and a back-up RB ... then the O could potentially be dominant.

I may be a bit too much of a "homer" but I definitely see the skill level of the O to be good enough to nearly rival the 2002 O. 2009 was the last time I was this excited about the potential of the OL ... and even then the group didn't live up to expectation due to so many injuries. However, I don't think that anybody could end up complaining about how the '09 season turned out.

And, what is particularly cool, is that the 2012 O could be poised to be every bit as good too!
 
Against NW, the wind/rain was so strong from the East,that passing was virtually impossible for half the game....that can not be overstated too much. It was no coincidence that both teams did nothing on offense against the wind that day.
The weather was a huge factor in both of those games....
 
I think we know what we have at all positions on Offense except two. I think the season is on James Vandenburg's back. The other is fullback. Do we really know what we got at fullback? Brad Rogers looks very good, but he is still being evaluated. Brett Morse was the most under appreciated player on our team. We really don't know what we have with those two at this point. But, I am really confident if we stay healthy that RB, OL, WR, and TE will be fantastic.

Predictions if they stay healthy
James V- 2,900 22 9
Coker- 1,400 12
McNutt- 800 7
Davis- 650 6
Herman- 450 4
 
It would seem that "the Shadow" may have been jumping the gun a little bit with regard to Shumpert. That is not to say that he doesn't have tremendous potential ... however, he still needs to develop plenty in order to reach that potential.

Word has it that Shumpert has been passed recently on the depth chart ... we'll see if he redoubles his effort to earn the spot back.
 
homerHAWKeye777 said:
It would seem that "the Shadow" may have been jumping the gun a little bit with regard to Shumpert. That is not to say that he doesn't have tremendous potential ... however, he still needs to develop plenty in order to reach that potential.

Word has it that Shumpert has been passed recently on the depth chart ... we'll see if he redoubles his effort to earn the spot back.
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Who is it rumored that he was passed by? It seemed that MM, KD, KMM and DS were the top 4 pretty recently. Is there a name for this person who has maybe passed him? Cotton?
 
tm3308 said:
Wow! Who saw THAT one coming?
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Not to brag, but I wasn't really all that surprised by it. You have to remember that Staggs really turned some heads at combines the summer following his high school JR campaign. The young man had all the raw tools ... impressive speed, very good size, and a good work ethic. The primary "knocks" on him were that he was still a bit on the raw side AND that he wasn't necessarily assertive enough when playing ball in high school.

It would seem like maturity and development, both resulting from working hard with Doyle AND in practice, ended up helping him to refine his game and exploit the considerable potential that he has.

Also, I'd look for Haluska to be another guy, who down the road could end up contributing quite a bit. Another guy with really nice size, speed, athleticism, and work ethic .... another guy who could develop into a pretty impressive WR.

Anyhow, none of us should give up on Shumpert by any stretch of the imagination. By all accounts, Shumpert really is an athletic freak. However, he's also only going to be a TR SO this fall ... and he's now seeing his first-ever spring camp. In other words, Shumpert still has plenty of time to develop ... he needs to just keep on working hard, pressing forward, and trying to continue to improve.
 
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