The Breakdown: Michigan State Wears Down Hawkeyes

[HawkGold]

Being out rebounded was a by product of Iowa missing way more shots than MSU did.

Two reasons why Iowa lost yesterday.

1 - Shot 33% from the field
2 - Made only 4 three pointers in 21 attempts.

That doesnt exlain zero offensive rebounds by starters other than Jok or JB.

If a MSU big doesnt have to slide over to stop pg penetration and can simply stay on their man and this block out does explain it....along with poor blocking out skills which is a part of FMs poor ability to coach 1/2 court.

Against outside shooting MSU takes away the landing zone of the shooter and puts fingers into the chest of the shooter which really messes w shooters which explains the shooting.

Zero foul shots by pt guard really hurts.

 

[ssckelley]

As Fran said in his post-game press conference, Iowa needed to go get more offensive rebounds with its poor shooting. It didn't. Rebounding was a sizable factor.

No disrespect to the coach but he is wrong. You don't win on the road shooting 33% from the field and 19% from 3's. The Hawks had 14 offensive rebounds, if they get 6 more (20 offensive rebounds is incredible) and convert them all into shots that's only 4 extra points (when shooting 33%). You just can't get around the fact that poor shooting was the blame for last nights loss. It is extremely unlikely Iowa will ever win a game with Jok and Bohannon shooting a combined 2-19 from the field and 0-11 from 3 point line.

 

[ssckelley]

That doesnt exlain zero offensive rebounds by starters other than Jok or JB.

I think you mean defensive rebounds, Cook and Wagner had 7 ORB between them. Iowa did give up 13 ORB to MSU but since they also got 14 ORB it's almost a wash. No matter how you cut it you cannot get around the poor shooting. Yes the defense could have been better in the 2nd half but they did force a ton of TO's in the first half but only came away with a 1 point lead at the half.

 

[thedukeofearl]

Being out rebounded was a by product of Iowa missing way more shots than MSU did.

Two reasons why Iowa lost yesterday.

1 - Shot 33% from the field
2 - Made only 4 three pointers in 21 attempts.

The elusive Bounce of the Ball factor was in play the second half.....

Sometimes no matter the positioning the ball goes elsewhere.....

Nobody seriously expected the Hawks to escape with a victory at Breslin after Wednesday night....;

 

[ShockHawk22]

It happens to other teams too. It's really common in basketball to have nights with no energy. This one was easy to see coming. Not many teams would have won last night in that situation.

I agree but shouldn't us playing so many guys counter that?

 

[RobHowe]

No disrespect to the coach but he is wrong. You don't win on the road shooting 33% from the field and 19% from 3's. The Hawks had 14 offensive rebounds, if they get 6 more (20 offensive rebounds is incredible) and convert them all into shots that's only 4 extra points (when shooting 33%). You just can't get around the fact that poor shooting was the blame for last nights loss. It is extremely unlikely Iowa will ever win a game with Jok and Bohannon shooting a combined 2-19 from the field and 0-11 from 3 point line.

I don't think the coach, or me for that matter, is saying that poor shorting was not a factor. We're just not dismissing the rebounding differential. Of course when a team shoots that poorly it's going to be a struggle on the road.

 

[RobHowe]

Also, six of Iowa's 14 offensive rebounds came in the final 3 minutes of the game when MSU had a comfortable lead. The Hawkeyes had 8 offensive rebounds in the first 37 minutes of the game. Again, rebounding wasn't the only season we lost. It was, however, a big reason, IMHO.

 

[ssckelley]

Also, six of Iowa's 14 offensive rebounds came in the final 3 minutes of the game when MSU had a comfortable lead. The Hawkeyes had 8 offensive rebounds in the first 37 minutes of the game. Again, rebounding wasn't the only season we lost. It was, however, a big reason, IMHO.

When you shoot 33% from the field we would have needed an additional 18 offensive rebounds to win that game. MSU owned the rebounding battle but that is mostly due to Iowa giving them 43 opportunities from missed shots while Iowa only had 31 opportunities.

 

[RobHowe]

When you shoot 33% from the field we would have needed an additional 18 offensive rebounds to win that game. MSU owned the rebounding battle but that is mostly due to Iowa giving them 43 opportunities from missed shots while Iowa only had 31 opportunities.

If you're getting offensive rebounds, you're often by the basket getting easy put-backs or they're long rebounds with the defense out of position. Higher percentage shots lead to a higher shooting percentage. There were more offensive rebounding opportunities because of all the missed shots.

Again, nobody is saying that the poor shooting was not a factor. Some of us just see the rebounding as one as well.

 

[ssckelley]

If you're getting offensive rebounds, you're often by the basket getting easy put-backs or they're long rebounds with the defense out of position. Higher percentage shots lead to a higher shooting percentage. There were more offensive rebounding opportunities because of all the missed shots.

Again, nobody is saying that the poor shooting was not a factor. Some of us just see the rebounding as one as well.

So if they make half the 2nd chances that's still an extra 12 offensive rebounds.

To blame rebounding as a reason why Iowa lost you are looking on the wrong side of the court. Of the 31 chances Iowa had at a defensive rebound they gave up 13 offensive rebounds (42%). But that is down the list a ways after poor shooting.

 

[RobHowe]

So if they make half the 2nd chances that's still an extra 12 offensive rebounds.

To blame rebounding as a reason why Iowa lost you are looking on the wrong side of the court. Of the 31 chances Iowa had at a defensive rebound they gave up 13 offensive rebounds (42%). But that is down the list a ways after poor shooting.

I'm saying it was rebounding on both ends of the floor. I feel like we're going in circles here. I've said my piece. We disagree. I'm moving on.

 

[ssckelley]

I'm saying it was rebounding on both ends of the floor. I feel like we're going in circles here. I've said my piece. We disagree. I'm moving on.

Fine, move on but your very first reply to me was about offensive rebounding. I think I've proved it's a ways down the list of reasons as to why Iowa lost last night.

 

[PCHawk]

I agree but shouldn't us playing so many guys counter that?

It's mostly the travel and the emotional draining of the double overtime loss than it was playing a handful of extra minutes 3 days earlier.

 

[HuckFinn]

Fine, move on but your very first reply to me was about offensive rebounding. I think I've proved it's a ways down the list of reasons as to why Iowa lost last night.

SS: Would you rather spend most of your time making sure you are right, or most of your time being happy? (This is a question often asked of people by clinical psychologists, just fyi)

 

[RobHowe]

Fine, move on but your very first reply to me was about offensive rebounding. I think I've proved it's a ways down the list of reasons as to why Iowa lost last night.

If you read the piece I linked in the OP, you will get my thoughts on the game last night. It was not 700 words on rebounding.

Sorry. But I choose not to go in circles with you anymore on this topic. I said my piece, you said yours and we disagree. What more is there to say?

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

You are entitled to an opinion. Great coaches take shooters out of their game. Jock can handle himself if healthy and complemented on the court. Pg play is easier to stop if not multi dimensional.
Wisky and MSU are top notch defenses.

The problem is it wasnt close late. Seriously, instead of watching the ball when those 2 shoot watch how both teams will close them out. Completely disrups the follow through ans landing. They also do or will close down JBs passing lanes daring him to go to the hoop.

Everything you typed above could possibly be true, I would even say I agree, but even with all that, Jok and Jbo had at minimum 7-8 open, uncontested 3's that didn't go in. make 2-3 of those(about their avg), it's a tight game to the wire. And made shots give you a moment more time to set up defensive position, it's fractional, but it might have made a huge difference.

Alas, poor shooting, poor freethrow shooting, poor rebounding....not a recipe for winning on the road, or at home for that matter.

Momentum and confidence is everything, even moreso for a what is still a very young team, these last 2 games have been the opposite. They need to catch a spark, as the schedule is pretty daunting to finish.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

Outside of dunks and layups, I think the entire team shot about 15%. No way can you win a game shooting that poorly.

and despite any other weaknesses...this is really what it came down to. They even missed a larger than normal number of layups.

 

[ssckelley]

SS: Would you rather spend most of your time making sure you are right, or most of your time being happy? (This is a question often asked of people by clinical psychologists, just fyi)

I honestly don't care, I'm wrong on my fair share of stuff and am not afraid to admit it (a trait not often found on message boards). Rob moved the target on me and says we are talking in circles, I thought we were having a decent discussion but whatever. I guess we can all go back to going around and around with 5656 instead.

 

[RobHowe]

I honestly don't care, I'm wrong on my fair share of stuff and am not afraid to admit it (a trait not often found on message boards). Rob moved the target on me and says we are talking in circles, I thought we were having a decent discussion but whatever. I guess we can all go back to going around and around with 5656 instead.

That's the thing. A lot of folks on here like to debate things until they're blue in the face. Honestly, that isn't enjoyable to me. I think we had a good discussion. We talked about our views on the game and it came to the point where it's obvious we don't agree. There's nothing more I want/need to say. We're not going to change each other's minds. Not a big deal.

 

[WindsorHawk]

It looks like I will just keep quoting my post from Friday afternoon...in multiple threads.

"MSU doesn't scare me all that much. But they lost by 29 at Michigan in their last game. They've had extra time to prep and rest. They definitely have a home court advantage. And we just played a 50 minute game...also traveling for the 2nd straight game.

I hope we play well and I hope we win. But I suspect we will compete; give a good effort; and lose by about 15. The deck is stacked against us in this one."

I wasn't upset when this game was over because the shooting, rebounding, etc. all come back to the things I mentioned above IMO. I'm pretty sure Bohannon played 45 minutes against MN. That's hard on a veteran player...not to mention a true freshman.