The 2013 Hawks like the 2008 squad.

[trj]

Meh, barring injuries not really worried about the running game. Same ole, same ole....... 8, 9 men in the box, single coverage on the receivers, defense giving no help over the top. Is there a receiver in the Iowa receiving corp. that can take advantage of that? is there a deep vertical route in the GD playbook? A brokedown-shell of himself Brodell was able to take advantage of that late in the '08 season with deep post routes. Seam routes, deep post routes all that will be available this year. The running game will be sufficient enough you don't need Shonn Greene like production to make the PA/waggle stuff work.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Is it crazy yo think weisman could have a year like Greene in terms of YPC? Last year he averaged 5.1 YPC. As a senior Shonn averaged 6.0. I believe this years oline will be more experienced.

Shonn didn't have a senior year, pal. He would declared early for the draft after his junior year. The greatest exercise in alternative Hawkeye history is what would have happened had Shonn been on that 2009 squad and evaded AIRBHG the whole year.

 

[hwk23]

Meh, barring injuries not really worried about the running game. Same ole, same ole....... 8, 9 men in the box, single coverage on the receivers, defense giving no help over the top. Is there a receiver in the Iowa receiving corp. that can take advantage of that? is there a deep vertical route in the GD playbook? A brokedown-shell of himself Brodell was able to take advantage of that late in the '08 season with deep post routes. Seam routes, deep post routes all that will be available this year. The running game will be sufficient enough you don't need Shonn Greene like production to make the PA/waggle stuff work.

The question is will we play a QB that can extend the play and make plays. Iowa has plenty of WRs that can get open with enough time. Everything revolves around the QB's ability to make plays from the success of the running game to the success of the defense.

 

[kmurp]

who will be the starting OL this year? as the OL goes, so goes Iowa. had the two OTs last year not gotten season ending injuries v. psu, the year certainly would have been different.

Thought it was one tackle. Donnal was a guard if I recall. I don't remember if be started most of the games prior to injury.

 

[ShadasRevenge]

Shonn didn't have a senior year, pal. He would declared early for the draft after his junior year. The greatest exercise in alternative Hawkeye history is what would have happened had Shonn been on that 2009 squad and evaded AIRBHG the whole year.

That, and what happens if guys like Bulaga, Reiff, and Sash came back for their senior years.

 

[JonDMiller]

It's easy to say that now, but nobody would have made that claim in July of 2008.

Probly not then, but I wrote it in November of 2008

 

[JonDMiller]

I liked this topic...wrote about it:

The comparisons have begun, at least internally. 2013 is reminding some of Iowa’s 2008 scenario.
Rick Brown of the Des Moines Register has an article where the 2008 v 2013 comparisons come out,which you can read here. Included is this quote:
“In 2007 we did have a young team, a little bit like last year,” Ferentz said. “Young in a lot of areas, and we knew we were going to have some challenges that way. We had a lot of off-the-field issues going on, guys making dumb decisions. And then not going to a bowl and basically losing that opportunity on our home field in the last ballgame. That left a bad taste.”
There’s a line early on in that article, from Brown, that says:
The 2008 team rebounded with a 9-4 record, including a late-season upset of No. 3 Penn State, and won the Outback Bowl. That team holds a special place in the heart of coach Kirk Ferentz because of its off-season attitude and work ethic coming off a bowl-free season. This team reminds Ferentz of that 2008 group. And he didn’t need to make a rah-rah speech for that happen.
I never got the feeling from any of the quotes Brown used that Ferentz was drawing any strong comparisons to 2008, other than the fact that both the 2007 and 2012 teams were ‘young’ and that this year’s team is unsettled at quarterback.
I would love to look back on the 2013 season and say ‘Wow, that really was like 2008′ because that would greatly exceed my expectations for this year. Could it happen? I guess it’s possible. However I would bet strongly against it.
The 2008 Hawkeyes: At the start of the season, we didn’t realize how dominant this team would become. In my opinion, it became the third best Ferentz-era team and if you put together a bracket of the Top Eight Ferentz era teams, if they could play each other at the end of their respective seasons, I’d put the 2008 Hawkeyes #2 behind the 2002 Hawkeyes, who might have been playing the best ball of any Iowa team at the end of any season since the 1950′s.
That’s an incredibly high bar, but for the sake of this exercise or comparison, one has to try to block out what the 2008 team became; at the end of that year, I wrote that the 2008 roster may go own as the best in Iowa history as it related to draft picks over the next five classes, and it did become that. One also has to remember what the 2008 outlook was coming off of the incredibly long 2007 offseason (something else the summer of 2013 has in common with the summer of 2008).
2007 Hawkeye Offense: Here is where Iowa ranked nationally out of 119 schools in some key areas:
Total Offense: 109th
Scoring Offense: 110th
Rushing Offense: 92nd
Passing Offense: 94th
Sacks Allowed: 114th
Until last year, this might have been the worst offense of the Ferentz era, considering the program wasn’t in start up mode the way it was in 1999 and 2000. It was atrocious in 2007, just painful to watch on third downs…and it was better than the 2012 group was in nearly every facet:
2012 Hawkeye Offense
Total Offense: 114th
Scoring Offense: 111th
Rushing Offense: 101st
Passing Offense: 99th
Sacks Allowed: 55th
Jake Christensen was tough to watch in 2007, yet he threw for 17 TD’s to 6 INT’s and 2269 yards passing and he had a passer rating of 116.94, 84th ‘best’ in the nation. The 2012 season for James Vandenberg was much worse, as he threw for a nearly identical 2249 yards but seven touchdown passes and eight interceptions. His passer rating was 107.72 and he didn’t crack the top 100. Still, the 2012 team was over 36% on third downs where the 2007 team was under 32%.
Either way, the spring and summer of 2008 did not find Iowa fans brimming with confidence…
-Iowa’s two top rushers, Albert Young and Damien Sims, had exhausted their eligibility.
-The top returning rusher was Jevon Pugh at 40 yards (similar to last year’s with Damon Bullock’s career total before the start of the year)
-DJK had a solid freshman year in 2007 as did James Cleveland, but Cleveland was no longer with the team and Marvin McNutt was still a quarterback. Iowa did have a promising tight end corps, with a young Tony Moeaki and senior to be Brandon Meyers in the fold for 2008.
-The offensive line was not expected to be as good as they would become. Rob Bruggeman supplanted Rafael Eubanks at center, Bryan Bulaga was a sophomore starter as was Julian Vandervelde, Seth Olsen was a senior at right guard but hadn’t played up to some expectations in his career and Kyle Calloway was the starting right tackle as a junior. While this group would play at a very high level, especially Bruggeman and Bulaga, nobody saw it coming in the out of season.
Now, onto the defense…
2007 Defense: Here is where that team ended the season, statistically
Total Defense: 36th
Rushing Defense: 24th
Scoring Defense: 12th
And…..we can pretty much call a TKO right now and stop writing. I’m not wired that way; we’ll finish it out.
2012 Defense:
Total Defense: 49th
Rushing Defense: 63rd
Scoring Defense: 33rd
The 2012 defense wasn’t horrible. Through six games, they were pretty salty but that was a function of the schedule as much as anything. They were challenged against the run, as challenged as any Iowa defense had been against the run since the 2000 Iowa team. However, they were on the field a lot with and offense that could not convert third downs. Then again, the defense had little to no pass rush, certainly not a consistent pass rush nor did it have a player you have to scheme around.
Going into next season, I don’t think you can give me a player that Iowa’s opponents are staying up late at night worrying about right now. Heading into the 2008 offseason, that to be 2008 Iowa defense had several of them; seniors to be Mitch King and Matt Kroul to name two. Adrian Clayborn and Christian Ballard were just ready to make their presence felt in 2008 as they were soph’s in that season and not really on anyones radar outside of Iowa City at that point. AJ Edds had made a name for himself by that time and Pat Angerer hadn’t done that as of yet.
Any attempt at connection between 2008 and 2013 has to stop dead cold when you get to the defense…the defensive outlook heading into 2008 was significantly brighter than what it is right now. The 2008 group delivered, turning in one of the best statistical performances of any Iowa defense in school history: 12th in total defense, 9th in rushing defense, 5th in passing efficiency defense and 5th in scoring defense allowing just 13 points per game.
Here were some of the names on the two-deep roster heading into the 2008 Iowa at Minnesota game: King, Kroul, Clayborn, Ballard, Angerer, Edds, Tyler Sash, Bradley Fletcher, Amari Spievey, Jeff Tarpinian, Jordan Bernstine, and Karl Klug; all of these names have taken snaps in the NFL. Also on that two deep was Brett Greenwood, Broderick Binns, Tyler Nielsen, Jeremiha Hunter and Shaun Prater.
Find me an Iowa defense that had more talent on it than that one.
2013 is not likely to have a 2008-style season because it does not have the horses on defense to stem the tide until the offense gets its legs under it; Iowa scored just 67 points over a four-game stretch in 2008 where it went 1-3 and the defense allowed just 64 points in that stretch. The 2013 offense may be just as challenged early on and the Hawkeyes would be very fortunate to start the season 4-0; I don’t think it will happen.
Are there stars in waiting on the defensive line? Is Carl Davis going to play to his size and be consistent? Will Darrian Cooper become a force to be reckoned with on the inside? Will Jaleel Johnson and Faith Ekakitie play beyond their years? Will LTP take off to another level? Will the defensive line keep blockers off the linebackers?
Too many questions there…far too many questions.
Then again, the Iowa rushing game outlook heading into 2008 was frightening (but similar to what Iowa faced last year) and Shonn Greene burst on the scene with the best season in school history. I doubt this coming year’s offensive line will play at the level of the 2008 line, but the offensive line should be solid.
So no, I don’t think the 2013 Hawkeyes can be like the 2008 Hawkeyes. I don’t think they will ever get to the point of dominating their opposition the way the 2008 team did, but 6-6 is possible.

 

[herkeye]

I guess I can see the comparasons between the summers leading up to the 2008 and 2013 seasons (coming off of disappointing seasons, missing bowl games, etc.). However, the talent on the 2008 team supecedes the talent available to the current Hawkeye roster by far. If anything, I would liken the up-coming 2013 squad to the 2001 squad. The 2001 squad just came off of a 3-9 season and started to show a bit of improvement toward the end of 2000. That team had a lot of YOUNG talent that had not yet come together as a cohesive unit, and throughout the 2001 season came so close to winning a lot of games that would have been upsets, but learned how to win the close games later in the season. If this season can turn out to be anything like the 2001 season and the younger talent is able to develop into a cohesive unit (cough, cough, offense, cough), I will be happy. Furthermore, great things should be on the way in 2014 given the experienced talent and the schedule. Either way, I am cautiously optimistic about this team and that they might surprise this year...I'm thinking 7-5 and a bowl game.

 

[Section136]

That, and what happens if guys like Bulaga, Reiff, and Sash came back for their senior years.

I dont think Reiff or Sash would have made much of an impact on the outcome of the 2011 season if they came back. Maybe an extra win.

But if Dace, Spievey and Bulaga had all returned for the 2010 season, I think that would have changed that season dramatically.

 

[theboat]

So no, I don’t think the 2013 Hawkeyes can be like the 2008 Hawkeyes. I don’t think they will ever get to the point of dominating their opposition the way the 2008 team did, but 6-6 is possible.

Is that your optimistic ceiling?

I think the OSU is a definite L, Michigan and Nebby are long-shots, with all the rest being some degree of winnable. Kurts a driver, he's a winner. Things are gonna change, I can feel it.

 

[HawkeyeMHA]

1. Wishful thinking
2. We're hoping for a card that's already been played

 

[eveningnewsteam]

This times 1000. Not a chance I buy that. Not saying that this team won't out perform my expectations, but to do that all they have to do is go 6-6.

If this defense is half as good as the 2008 defense, I will be pleasantly surprised. The 2008 Iowa roster had more talent on it than any in Iowa football history, senior to redshirt freshman.

And boy do I hope I am wrong.

Agreed. Also Clayborn and Ballard really started to show up in the last part of the year in 07.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I knew who he was (for the record, I was 15 when Greene first arrived on campus). I remember him tearing up Ball State as a freshman in 2005 and being excited about his potential. But in 2008, he was coming off a year away from the program and we had no clue what to expect from him. He was a gigantic question mark before the season. He answered those questions in a big way, but that doesn't change the fact we were unsure of what we had at tailback before the season. We know exactly what we have now, and we don't have Shonn Greene.

There were also rumors he wasn't coming back, or was transferring to Clemson or VaTech, etc.

In addition, early in his career he couldn't/wouldn't pick up a blitz or, too often, did a perfunctory block, didn't stay with the block, and then the rusher would either sack our QB or at least force things.

ANYbody who claims they "knew" the kind of year SG would have in 2008 is lying.

 

[tm3308]

I dont think Reiff or Sash would have made much of an impact on the outcome of the 2011 season if they came back. Maybe an extra win.

But if Dace, Spievey and Bulaga had all returned for the 2010 season, I think that would have changed that season dramatically.

This. Hyde turned into an excellent corner, but he was shaky as a sophomore at times. The whole situation was very similar to 2009, actually. If we'd had Fletcher for an extra year, that secondary would have been downright frightening.

 

[ICHawk24]

I dont think Reiff or Sash would have made much of an impact on the outcome of the 2011 season if they came back. Maybe an extra win.

But if Dace, Spievey and Bulaga had all returned for the 2010 season, I think that would have changed that season dramatically.

I think Spievey would have made a huge difference. Every loss that year could have been saved with better pass defense in the clutch.

 

[hawkinn3]

Motivation, grit, heart, being pi$$ed off or whater you want to call it does not overcome a lack of talent. It can make a differnece if its close but thats about it. If the other guys is faster and stronger he will beat you even if he doesnt care as much.

 

[whammer33024]

Motivation, grit, heart, being pi$$ed off or whater you want to call it does not overcome a lack of talent. It can make a differnece if its close but thats about it. If the other guys is faster and stronger he will beat you even if he doesnt care as much.

tell that to rocky balboa...or average joe's gym

 

[Eda]

Motivation, grit, heart, being pi$$ed off or whater you want to call it does not overcome a lack of talent. It can make a differnece if its close but thats about it. If the other guys is faster and stronger he will beat you even if he doesnt care as much.

Mitch King did pretty well for himself, considering he was undersized much if the time. Although looking back I suppose it could've bed the hair. Kind of like Samson.

 

[LASBUR]

Not always. Sometimes that is when execution factors in

Motivation, grit, heart, being pi$$ed off or whater you want to call it does not overcome a lack of talent. It can make a differnece if its close but thats about it. If the other guys is faster and stronger he will beat you even if he doesnt care as much.

 

[Golfer]

The gentleman that mentioned the injuries to the OL last season is correct in my estimation.

I've heard the O line was way ahead of the D line this spring, and that isn't supposed to happen very often. Actually, in spring it hardly ever happens. No one really knows, including coaches that early, but I'm hoping with the returning YPC, it is a good sign for the O line, and not a concern for the D line.

The painful lateral passing game last year actually did open up the running game. It wasn't often, but when it did, you could see what they were attempting. Not to get in to the debate about KoK again. He's gone, this is what we have for now. It is what it is.