Thank you Jon

M

MNHawk

Member
...for not lecturing us on how Iowa was predicted to be a 6-6 team and this is to be expected. I appreciated hearing you express some frustration for a performance that should NEVER be acceptable to Iowa fans. It was cathartic.


I really like Kirk. I was on board with you about the Brian hire as OC thinking papa will do everything in his power, including changing, to ensure his success. Call it stubbornness, laziness, being too comfortable or whatever, but Kirk has not relented from his stale, predictable self.


A few things that bother me (that echo you, Deace and Howe)….


  1. When Kirk breaks tendency he has success. Breaking tendency is called coaching.

  2. Quotes from Rob. “The last two weeks, the staff on the other sideline found ways to exploit them (them being our lack of development). It’s been a one-way street.” And, “You don’t hear opponents stressing about what to expect from Iowa.” This is not acceptable for any P5 program. Sometimes you have to fool your opponent.

  3. Every B1G rebuilding program targets Iowa. MSU did, UW did, Northwestern did, MN did. Two, and arguably three of these programs have clearly passed us. We WERE Wisconsin before Wisconsin was. Five championship appearances in 7 years by UW. We (Kirk) blew our advantage over these programs and have since made excuses as to why we can’t be them. Sorry, but history, tradition, campus environment, facilities, pay all mean more than geography and population. We can and should have a resume close to UW year in and year out.

I predicted 8-4 this season believing that Kirk would work hard and even innovate so Brian would not fail. KOK and Polasek were the insurance policies to ensure this. Boy was I wrong! The man is far more rigid than I ever believed.
 
I agree with everything but the last part of your third point. Iowa's history/tradition is solid, but not great. Great campus environments can be found almost anywhere. I don't feel like Iowa City is anything unique compared to it's counterparts. Almost anyone who is anyone has high end facilities now. The University of Iowa offers a solid education, but that can be said of almost any of the Big 10 schools. So really when it comes to those things, there isn't really much separation between Iowa and the competition if any at all. When all of those things are even, geography and population do very much matter. It does get brought up a lot about how much Ferentz makes and it's a fair point. He's the fourth highest paid coach in the conference although Dantonio makes pretty close to what Ferentz makes as well. Paying up for that should lead to better results than we've gotten in 2017. To me, it's not the wins and losses. Some were expecting a rocky year in that regard and the logic behind it wasn't flawed. But it's the lack of improvement or in this case, regression that is the main problem regarding 2017. That alone makes his salary for 2017 unjustified.
 
I think Kirk is a good fit for Iowa. I don't think Iowan's would like a program full of scandal. Or a new coach every 3 years along with a sub .500 record every year.

On the other hand, I have to question what is happening when Iowa produces a team like what we are seeing on the field. And that is on Kirk's doorstep.
Many criticisms are directed at Kirk's lack of imagination on the playing field. To that I would say, it's tough to get creative when your student's are not grasping the basic concepts.

Football is not rocket science. It's catch the ball. Block. Run to daylight. Stop the other guy from doing what he wants to do. Iowa is failing on the basics.
 
thefizz said:
I agree with everything but the last part of your third point. Iowa's history/tradition is solid, but not great. Great campus environments can be found almost anywhere. I don't feel like Iowa City is anything unique compared to it's counterparts. Almost anyone who is anyone has high end facilities now. The University of Iowa offers a solid education, but that can be said of almost any of the Big 10 schools. So really when it comes to those things, there isn't really much separation between Iowa and the competition if any at all. When all of those things are even, geography and population do very much matter. It does get brought up a lot about how much Ferentz makes and it's a fair point. He's the fourth highest paid coach in the conference although Dantonio makes pretty close to what Ferentz makes as well. Paying up for that should lead to better results than we've gotten in 2017. To me, it's not the wins and losses. Some were expecting a rocky year in that regard and the logic behind it wasn't flawed. But it's the lack of improvement or in this case, regression that is the main problem regarding 2017. That alone makes his salary for 2017 unjustified.
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I think we agree more on that third point than you think. We are not at a tremendous disadvantage in most areas and for most of the 80's part of the 90's and '01-10 we were ahead of these programs and we didn't build upon this. That's what really bothers me when I say we were UW before they were.
 
MNHawk said:
...for not lecturing us on how Iowa was predicted to be a 6-6 team and this is to be expected. I appreciated hearing you express some frustration for a performance that should NEVER be acceptable to Iowa fans. It was cathartic.


I really like Kirk. I was on board with you about the Brian hire as OC thinking papa will do everything in his power, including changing, to ensure his success. Call it stubbornness, laziness, being too comfortable or whatever, but Kirk has not relented from his stale, predictable self.


A few things that bother me (that echo you, Deace and Howe)….


  1. When Kirk breaks tendency he has success. Breaking tendency is called coaching.

  2. Quotes from Rob. “The last two weeks, the staff on the other sideline found ways to exploit them (them being our lack of development). It’s been a one-way street.” And, “You don’t hear opponents stressing about what to expect from Iowa.” This is not acceptable for any P5 program. Sometimes you have to fool your opponent.

  3. Every B1G rebuilding program targets Iowa. MSU did, UW did, Northwestern did, MN did. Two, and arguably three of these programs have clearly passed us. We WERE Wisconsin before Wisconsin was. Five championship appearances in 7 years by UW. We (Kirk) blew our advantage over these programs and have since made excuses as to why we can’t be them. Sorry, but history, tradition, campus environment, facilities, pay all mean more than geography and population. We can and should have a resume close to UW year in and year out.

I predicted 8-4 this season believing that Kirk would work hard and even innovate so Brian would not fail. KOK and Polasek were the insurance policies to ensure this. Boy was I wrong! The man is far more rigid than I ever believed.
Click to expand...

So if we win this week we are 7-5. If that were to happen, how disappointed would you be? Surely it crossed your mind that an 8-4 season could just as easily be a 7-5 season with a bad break? So if that were to happen, how wrong would you have been? Would you have been REALLY wrong or BARELY wrong?
 
MNHawk said:
I think we agree more on that third point than you think. We are not at a tremendous disadvantage in most areas and for most of the 80's part of the 90's and '01-10 we were ahead of these programs and we didn't build upon this. That's what really bothers me when I say we were UW before they were.
Click to expand...

You have to be inventive off the field too. With the revenue that pours into the programs now due to licensing, exposure, etc etc....Iowa has the funds to try new ideas. We have world class facilities, we have a top academic university, and with no pro sports in the state, college sports is the bread and butter or the passion of the population.

What we don't have is the production of top athletes like the bigger states. Iowa is not a destination, or somewhere you go vacation like some of the coastal schools.

With all that being said, you need to find ways to make yourself attractive. Aside from 1999-2004, KF has never done that. Other schools used KF model for success, and they've adapted it since. WI has always been about big OL, and running the FB. But they go out and get a grad transfer in Wilson and transform their offense. They change their defense from the 4-3, to a 3-4 and have success. They adapt to the personnel they have, all while staying under the schematic umbrella that Barry created.

KF has done the same thing for nearly two decades, and he will not change.

Those of us who thought BF would be that change, why? Why would we think that? All BF has ever known is the Kirk way of football. Even going to the pros with Bill B wasn't going to change that. Patriots adapt on a weekly basis, Iowa doesn't.

This program has been stale for a very long time. Every year a win for Iowa feels like a relief, something we survived watching as a fan (and probably feels even more so for the players). OSU was the first win in a while that felt like something long ago, a celebration.

Aside from the players giving it their all each week for the program and school, there hasn't been anything to celebrate regarding football for a very long time (Please don't say Orange Bowl, that was almost 8 years ago)
 
Honestly why did many of you being adults and seeing life ever expect a sin to deliver a dad? It can happen but most times its a dad carrying a bumbling son. It happens in business. It happens in farming.

KF us not stupid. He knows how to win. He wants to win his way at least once meaning a boring style demolition of slan opponent. Winning the Big and getting to a playoff.

Brians hire may have ended that.

Kirk was a 12 and 21 coach before Iowa. There is film online of his teams then. They are mirror Iowa different uniforms. The highlites look good. It is the same strategy. Solid and boring.
 
GotTimDodge said:
Disagree.
Been to many college towns, and have spoken with many who have visited from other college towns.
IC is special.
Click to expand...

I never lived in Iowa City or went to school there, but I hung out there regularly during my "college years." Iowa City is great, but it's nothing special compared to other places in my opinion based on my personal experiences. I've been to Madison multiple times and went again last week. I could have seen myself really liking my experience there for 4 years. I went to Minnesota to hang out with a couple of friends after we graduated HS and I could have had a great 4 year experience there. I lived in Arizona for a 6 and half years and although I'd rank IC ahead of Tucson, I could have seen myself having a great experience there. For the record, Tucson really started to clean itself up over the past 4 years. I also spent some time in Tempe and I could imagine that being a great experience. I live in Denver now and I've been to Boulder. Politics aside, that would be a great 4 year experience. And those are just the places I've visited. So in short, the Iowa City experience is much better than the Cedar Falls experience, but I don't think it's anything significantly better or worse than the other places I mentioned.
 
HawkeyeDenis said:
I think Kirk is a good fit for Iowa. I don't think Iowan's would like a program full of scandal. Or a new coach every 3 years along with a sub .500 record every year.

On the other hand, I have to question what is happening when Iowa produces a team like what we are seeing on the field. And that is on Kirk's doorstep.
Many criticisms are directed at Kirk's lack of imagination on the playing field. To that I would say, it's tough to get creative when your student's are not grasping the basic concepts.

Football is not rocket science. It's catch the ball. Block. Run to daylight. Stop the other guy from doing what he wants to do. Iowa is failing on the basics.
Click to expand...
For all that scandals are pointed out - they are quite rare. Penn St and Baylor are the most recent examples, but 1 out of 124 teams every 5 years is really close to 1/10th of a percent. It's not that valid of a concern.
 
MNHawk said:
...for not lecturing us on how Iowa was predicted to be a 6-6 team and this is to be expected. I appreciated hearing you express some frustration for a performance that should NEVER be acceptable to Iowa fans. It was cathartic.


I really like Kirk. I was on board with you about the Brian hire as OC thinking papa will do everything in his power, including changing, to ensure his success. Call it stubbornness, laziness, being too comfortable or whatever, but Kirk has not relented from his stale, predictable self.


A few things that bother me (that echo you, Deace and Howe)….


  1. When Kirk breaks tendency he has success. Breaking tendency is called coaching.

  2. Quotes from Rob. “The last two weeks, the staff on the other sideline found ways to exploit them (them being our lack of development). It’s been a one-way street.” And, “You don’t hear opponents stressing about what to expect from Iowa.” This is not acceptable for any P5 program. Sometimes you have to fool your opponent.

  3. Every B1G rebuilding program targets Iowa. MSU did, UW did, Northwestern did, MN did. Two, and arguably three of these programs have clearly passed us. We WERE Wisconsin before Wisconsin was. Five championship appearances in 7 years by UW. We (Kirk) blew our advantage over these programs and have since made excuses as to why we can’t be them. Sorry, but history, tradition, campus environment, facilities, pay all mean more than geography and population. We can and should have a resume close to UW year in and year out.

I predicted 8-4 this season believing that Kirk would work hard and even innovate so Brian would not fail. KOK and Polasek were the insurance policies to ensure this. Boy was I wrong! The man is far more rigid than I ever believed.
Click to expand...

many....many fans have been saying this for a long, long time. kirk ferentz is his own worst enemy because believes he is untouchable. And, honestly, he has been because of the dumbass contract barta and Iowa signed with kirk THEN allowing brian to become the OC. Someone needs to sit kirk down and explain to him that brian will NOT be the next HC. You want to see fans leave in droves? Allow that to happen.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
many....many fans have been saying this for a long, long time. kirk ferentz is his own worst enemy because believes he is untouchable. And, honestly, he has been because of the dumbass contract barta and Iowa signed with kirk THEN allowing brian to become the OC. Someone needs to sit kirk down and explain to him that brian will NOT be the next HC. You want to see fans leave in droves? Allow that to happen.
Click to expand...
Maybe that's what it would take. KF retires after this season and Brian is named his successor along with Steve Ferentz being promoted from a volunteer to OL coach. That'll help sell out the north endzone....
 
Thawki said:
So if we win this week we are 7-5. If that were to happen, how disappointed would you be? Surely it crossed your mind that an 8-4 season could just as easily be a 7-5 season with a bad break? So if that were to happen, how wrong would you have been? Would you have been REALLY wrong or BARELY wrong?
Click to expand...

My 8-4 prediction was based on losing to PSU, OSU, UW and one loss to someone else. I also thought Naively that we might look a little differently. It's losing by margins that are out of line (UW) and games we should win (PU, and possibly NW and MSU) that are so disappointing. So really wrong or barely wrong is not important to me it's the way we look getting here.
 
GotTimDodge said:
Disagree.
Been to many college towns, and have spoken with many who have visited from other college towns.
IC is special.
Click to expand...
Iowa City is special because we are hawk fans. I used to think Kinnick rocked and then I saw a game at Nebraska and then I thought holy crap this place is loud and holds way more people. Then I saw a white out at Penn St and I have yet to see any environment better. I won't let myself ever go to a game at the shoe so who knows if that is even better. I doubt a fan from Knoxville, where they hold over 100k would be blown away by Kinnick. Unless they love Ozzie.
 
my response to jon's point about not running play action is if its the RT that's the problem, then you figure out a way to help that RT, either with a TE or back helping to chip or by formation. we lack creativity in play calling, formations and plays available to call.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
my response to jon's point about not running play action is if its the RT that's the problem, then you figure out a way to help that RT, either with a TE or back helping to chip or by formation. we lack creativity in play calling, formations and plays available to call.
Click to expand...

There are posters who find more contentment losing with built-in excuses than winning with creativity/adjustments.

Do I really believe that? It's getting harder and harder not to.
 
Performance has nothing to do with attendance, and attendance has almost nothing to do with revenue. T.V. $ and sponsors are all that matters. The Ferentz name is nice, clean, and inoffensive. The program bowl games and underdog image makes for good association for hard - working Iowa brands.
 
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