hawkeye12345
Well-Known Member
C'mon, Ghost told us all a long time ago how "the System" is supposed to work:
I just about ****** my pants reading this. Great way to start off the day.
System?
- Thread starter HawkeyeNTexas
- Start date
I just about ****** my pants reading this. Great way to start off the day.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
This. Tom Davis had a system. Alford had a system, even if it didn't look like it a lot of the time. Lickliter has a system.
It's a matter of having the talent to run it. I see no reason why a talented basketball player who can run, jump and shoot couldn't do well in any coach's system.
I agree, it really comes down to being able to put good personnel on the floor.
HawkeyeNTexas
Well-Known Member
Jon, us Iowa fans could care less what he did at Butler or anywhere else. All we care about is right now, and this Iowa team. The question is, if he doesn't have the "right" parts to run the system now, when or IS he ever going to get them? I believe this current team is running the wrong offense. I would have them running a motion offense. Most of them aren't capable of beating someone off of the dribble all the time. They need to mix in a ton of screens. This screen at the top of the key is pointless because it's not used properly. Teams know it's coming.
This team has shown at limited times that is it capable of playing with the big boys. They just make too many mistakes at key times in the games. You could say it's due to their youth, but that's hogwash if you ask me. IT'S COACHING!!!
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
That's not really true. Obviously it helps to have talented athletes, but look at Wisconsin or Georgetown or Tony Bennett at Washington St. and now Virginia. All these coaches have well defined systems that work without top talent. A good coach can make a huge difference. And Rick Barnes' coaching skills are a big reason why Texas only has one final four appearance despite all the talent he has brought in.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
"ONLY" 1 Final Four? How many Final Fours has Bo Ryan taken Wisconsin to? We all know Bo Ryan can coach, but in this case, Rick Barnes' talent seems to be trumping Bo Ryan's coaching when it comes to Final Four appearances, if that is the criteria you want to use.
I'd take Rick Barnes in a heartbeat over a good coach that can't recruit, and settle for just the one Final Four. Not saying Bo Ryan can't recruit (because it looks like he can), I'm just saying that in general terms.
Before you say that Georgetown doesn't have "top" talent, here is a breakdown of their recent recruiting class, going by star ranking according to Scout:
2007:
1 3-star
1 4-star
1 5-star
2008:
2 4-stars
1 5-star
2009:
1 3-star
1 4-star
2010:
2 4-stars
I won't list all of the recruits Wisconsin gets, and it's not quite as impressive as GT's recruiting, but they still easily have gotten more 4-star recruits over the past several years than Iowa has.
I don't see how anyone can deny that Iowa's recruiting, or lack thereof, is a big reason why we are not competing at a very high level.
And what about Coach K? Did he just suddenly forget how to coach? In recent years, Duke can't get past the Sweet 16, where they used to be a Final Four lock just about every year.
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What? You do realize Georgetown currently has Greg Monroe on their team. He is slotted as the #11 pick in the NBA draft this year.
You do realize they have also had Jeff Green who currently averages 14.5 PPG, 6 RBG, and 1.6 APG in the NBA.
How can you say Georgetown is some system team devoid of talent....
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Look at the talent Thompson started with when he took over. Roy Hibbert was a barely recruited "project", who became a first round draft pick. Of course when you get results, you start recruiting better. But he won without a ton of talent early on.
It wasn't so much a lack of recruiting that hurt Coach K, but more like misevaluating players. Greg Paulus and Josh McRoberts were both top five HS players that he landed, but neither of them came anywhere close to the hype. He has also tried to avoid recruting one and done's since Luol Deng left and as a result has missed out on a lot of those top tier difference makers.
And I'm not trying to deny Iowa's lack of talent, it's obviously a huge factor. But how talented was Washington St. when Bennett took them to sweet 16 a couple years ago, having a good coach makes a lot of difference.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
You do realize they run the same system that Thompson ran at Princeton. He brought in his system to a team that was not filled with top flight talent and did a great job of re-establishing G'town. Obviously, with his success he has been able to recruit better players like Monroe. Believe it or not the more you win, the better recruits you get.
He runs a similar system to what he ran at Princeton. He said in various intervies that when he got to Gtown and was able to recruit better players than Princeton he decided to tweak the system to fit better athletes.
I do understand he has increased his talent as he was won more consistently.
I think Lickliter would probably change a tad if Iowa had more talent. It seemed Todd was more lenient toward the end of last season when he realized, wow I have a 6'6 long guard who can put the ball on the floor and go both left and right.
I was just pointing out that Georgetown does not run the exact same offense that Princeton ran when GTIII was at Princeton. He transformed it right away when he got to Georgetown.
I agree Hibbert was more of a project who got better and is in the NBA for the time being because he is tall, can pass well and should be able to alter shots.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
I wouldn't say he transformed it right away, he has slowly evolved it as his talent has changed. Initially, it was the same offense. His starting pg on their final four team, Johnathon Wallace, was a lightly recruited high school player who committed to Princeton and followed Thompson to G'town.
A solid offensive system is not a bad thing to have, it can work. It just doesn't look like it's going to work out here for Lickliter, at least not without a major talent upgrade.
I agree 100% with you. Coach Lickliter is a good coach (past evidence supports it, heck even some things he has done at Iowa supports it) He however is not a good enough coach (nor is anyone) to win consistently in a major conference with a talent gap. Like I have said from day one, Coach Lickliter is only going to be successfull if he can consistently recruit good talent. He needs to probably start beating out some major conference schools for talent. It's just hard to execute perfectly for 40 minutes. You need great talent to bail you out at times on the offensive and defensive end.
ForeverHawk
Well-Known Member
When somebody puts up a post like this above, it is very naive to think that somebody is not going to counter with the record of that year and who Butler beat, thus making a post like this below relatively irrelevant in my opinion:
__________________________________________________________________
GUARANTEE someone is going to tell you the teams Butler beat in the tourney that year and the fact Butler gave Florida their toughest game.
Watch. It will be one of the 3 posters as well.
Wait. I all ready said it. they do not read everyones posts though, so it will probably be said still.
_________________________________________________________________________
So, to take this a step further, I just thought I would highlight some of Butler's other games from that seaon.
In addition to beating a ranked Maryland team in the NCAA tournament and playing Florida to a close game, Butler also won the NIT pre-season tournament by beating a few teams you may have heard of: Notre Dame, Indiana, Tennessee and Gonzaga. They also beat Purdue that year. Yes, they play in a conference that top to bottom is not as good as the big 10, but you can't say that Butler doesn't step outside their conference a play the big boys, especially Lick's last year.
You're Welcome!
HawkeyeNTexas
Well-Known Member
I could care less what TL did at Butler. It doesn't matter at this point.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Other than that it shows the man is not a bad coach. Sure, his success at Butler does nothing to help the situation here. But it does say that the struggles are not because he's a terrible coach with a system that can't work against the big boys, because he's already made it work before.
