soph slumps and frosh fire

Foval21 said:
btw i said they struggle because of more attention based off how well they played in the previous yr. to think he wont get more attention next yr and not expect them to have a harder time is ignorant.
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I don't think it's ignorant at all. I'm just acknowledging the fact that every player is different, and that some guys will wilt in the face of extra attention and other guys won't. Again, regarding Aaron White-- do you really think teams are going to game plan around him? It's not like he is a post player that you can just double. And how do you neutralize some of the stuff he does-- steals, getting on loose balls, offensive putbacks, etc.? I'm not saying he's unstoppable, but he has a sense for the ball, a variety of ways to score and a huge motor. Guys like that are going to get their production.

You also don't have to go back that far in Hawkeye history to see guys who played well as freshmen and kept improving throughout their careers, including their sophomore years. Jeff Horner scored 8ppg and had 4.5 assists as a freshman point guard, and kept getting better. Greg Brunner wasn't the scorer Aaron White is (7.5 ppg to 10 for Aaron), but he shot 53% and had 5 rebounds/game. (I don't have minutes per game stats on these guys, but Brunner probably would have scored more had he gotten as many looks as Sonderleiter and Jared Reiner, both of whom had more shots per game than Bru.) There was no sophomore slump or junior slump or senior slump for these guys, and there's no reason to think that it's an automatic for any player.
 
Foval21 said:
he scored 2 more pts and had lower percentages in the 3 point scoring categories (fg%, 3pt%, ft%). bc is having a soph slump (2nd yr against this competition). may had one. basabe is having one. 4 seems like something that could be significant. we would know better if we hadnt had such mass defections during the lick yrs
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1. What do you consider a slump?
2. Your logic is flawed because to know if a sophomore slump exist you would at least have to run numbers on EVERY D1 player their freshmen year and then run them for their sophomore year. At that point you have to look at the numbers then probably have to look at what team members came and went.

Do you have the time to do this? If not it's pretty hard to say a sophomore slump even exists. I for one don't believe in a sophomore slump.
 
White will be better next year I can promise you. He has the work ethic and the attitude. What other teams do against him doesn't matter. Like some have said to think that they aren't preparing for him this year doesn't make any sense, they are. Along that same line of thinking, some on here have suggested that Basabe will be back to himself next year once we get Woodbury on the floor. I understand that line of thinking but I don't buy into it. Only Mel can fix Mel.
 
hawk2012 said:
I don't buy the line of logic where freshmen excel because the league hasn't seen them play and that sophomores slump because they are well known quantity. We live in the year 2012 and have DVRs. Every game is taped. Any Big Ten coach worth a grain of salt knew about White going into the BigTen season. They certainly knew about him after the Wisconsin game. I guarantee Penn State focused more on controlling White than Basabe. They aren't going to myopically focus more on Basabe just because he played well last season. In fact coaches are able adjust to good performances game by game. Defenses tightened up on McCabe after his back to back 20 point performance.

Nor does our own team produce any evidence of this phenomenon. McCabe and Marble have both improved as Sophomores. Gatens improved as well as a sophomore (points, rebounds, assists -- his shooting % went down but that was probably a result of having to force things more often). I don't think May can be classified as a sophomore slump as well because he is also having a junior slump. This seems to be a mixture of injury problems and confidence.

As for Basabe, Big Ten defenses should have started keying on him midway through the BigTen season last year but I don't remember a huge slowdown in production. Thus, something else is to the blame. Likely candidates: 1) the loss of Jarryd Cole 2) extra weight (even if it was muscle it could slow him down; there is a reason sprinters don't look like bodybuilders) 3) effort 4) confidence.

I think confidence is the most likely problem. Freshmen generally don't play with expectations. Sophomores are often required to carry more of the load. I think many people expected Basabe to carry our team. I think that combined with the fact that Basabe thought he needed to develop a jump shot to make it into the NBA messed up his game. Fran always focuses on how Basabe needs to play his own game.

As our team will be pretty deep and more veteran next year, I don't expect any of our Sophomores to get hit by the confidence bug. The most likely candidate would be Ogelsby as many posters here already expect him to replace Gatens production which is far too big a burden. In addition, confidence is especially problematic with three point shooters. I don't think White will have an off year as we are very deep at the 4 and he won't feel too much burden to carry the team.
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Huh? Sprinters are usually jacked.

Adding muscle always makes you faster and more explosive if you are doing any sort of an intelligent regiment, which Basabe obviously was.

Muscle weight does reduce endurance though, which is why the longer the distance usually the thinner the runner.
 
i was bringing up soph slumps because you talk about them in all sports and all levels. the question next yr in the nfl will be if cam newton can duplicate or have a soph slump. same happens in nba (try the wizards pg). i hope aw doesnt but when expectations are high for someone's second yr and they dont seem to meet them we tend to call it a soph slump. you dont have to believe it or expect it to happen. i am just saying aw looks to be a canidate because he will be more planned for next yr as he will likely be our #2 scoring threat. of course they are planning for him this yr but are you telling me teams are planning more for him than gatens or marble. not a chance.
 
Foval21 said:
you play well when people dont expect much out of you (usually frosh yr). then struggle when more attention is put on them (usually soph yr) then you see how they adapt to it and that is when we see what they really are.
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Here is how your logic falls apart:

1. Iowa has played 24 games, including 11 in the Big10
2. The other Big10 teams have scouts, game tape, and prep time
3. When other teams play Iowa, they know how good White is NOW, and they know how to prepare for him. There isn't some barrier that prevents players being evaluated until their soph year.

QED
 
FCAS said:
Here is how your logic falls apart:

1. Iowa has played 24 games, including 11 in the Big10
2. The other Big10 teams have scouts, game tape, and prep time
3. When other teams play Iowa, they know how good White is NOW, and they know how to prepare for him. There isn't some barrier that prevents players being evaluated until their soph year.

QED
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Rebuttal: "sophomore" and "slump" both start with the letter S.

And that is how you debate!
 
Foval...nobody is saying that it won't happen but to expect it is not overly logical. As has been mentioned White's game doesn't exactly lend itself to being stopped easily. He can occasionally hit the three, he can drive, he can run the break and he gets put backs, plus has a knack for getting to the line.

There are a lot of cliches in sports like the sophmore slump and freshman inconsistency. And while this applies to certain players it certainly doesn't apply to all or even most. People always say freshmen are inconsistent and that will improve as they develop but in reality I see a lot of inconsistent seniors as well, so you never know.

As far as the example of Gatens, May and Basabe. Others have mentioned but I will summarize.
1. Gatens had Jake Kelly and Jeff Petersen his freshman year, soph year he had Cully Payne. I actually think he had a Junior slump more than a sophmore slump which was probably in part due to adjusting to a new system.
2. May as already described has major problems with his offensive game that will never get better
3. Basabe I agree with you that he slumped overall

However, recent history shows many other examples of players that improved upon good freshman years. Horner, Brunner, Oliver are just three off the top of my head.
 
John Wooden said the two most important things in basketball are balance and quickness.

Describes Aaron White pretty well. If he keeps those traits, he should be fine.

At the same time, Basabe seems to have less balance and quickness than last year, perhaps due to inadvisable weight gain. Although it should be pointed out that Wooden also said the two most important things in life are balance and love. So perhaps personal issues related to balance or love are also driving Basabe's sophomore struggles.

Mostly, I wanted to drop a couple John Wooden quotes here.
 
RocknRollface said:
Huh? Sprinters are usually jacked.

Adding muscle always makes you faster and more explosive if you are doing any sort of an intelligent regiment, which Basabe obviously was.

Muscle weight does reduce endurance though, which is why the longer the distance usually the thinner the runner.
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"Adding muscle always makes you faster and more explosive if you are doing any sort of an intelligent regiment" is just not a factual statement. The more you weigh the more power you have to exert to move. While I agree with your general statement about endurance and strength, at some point more muscle will make you slower. Coach had Gatens shed 12 pounds so he could keep up with the fast 2 guards in the league, not to help with his endurance.

It's true that spinters are jacked. Usain Bolt is 6 foot 5, 202 pounds. However, if adding 25 pounds a muscle would make him faster, he would do it. It's just that 202 pounds is his ideal combination of muscle and weight. Basabe was 6 foot 7 212 pounds last year and gained 25 during the offseason. Why is it so unbelievable that he 212 is closer to his ideal speed power range than 235?
 
The term "sophomore slump" has been used for 70 years...it is not a new concept.

With Basabe, I think teams learned how to play against him this year and he didn't know how to counter and Iowa didn't have the strength inside to help him counter. I think Basabe was a little exposed this year, plus the addition of the weight hurt him.

With next year's class, a guy like Basabe is going to greatly benefit because opposing teams will not be able to key on him plus he will be able to play his natural position. I will be very surprised if we don't see an all new Basabe next year.

He just needs to hack through the year...better days are coming.
 
NewMexHawk said:
The term "sophomore slump" has been used for 70 years...it is not a new concept.

With Basabe, I think teams learned how to play against him this year and he didn't know how to counter and Iowa didn't have the strength inside to help him counter. I think Basabe was a little exposed this year, plus the addition of the weight hurt him.

With next year's class, a guy like Basabe is going to greatly benefit because opposing teams will not be able to key on him plus he will be able to play his natural position. I will be very surprised if we don't see an all new Basabe next year.

He just needs to hack through the year...better days are coming.
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I don't belive in a sophomore slump.

I am sure I could find just as many sophomores who equaled their freshmen year or got better in some categories.
 
hawk2012 said:
Basabe was 6 foot 7 212 pounds last year and gained 25 during the offseason. Why is it so unbelievable that he 212 is closer to his ideal speed power range than 235?
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I don't buy the weight excuse for Basabes performance issues, because watching him play, it is clearly a desire issue, not an ability one. The problem is between Mel's ears, not around his middle.
 
SwirlinLingerie said:
John Wooden said the two most important things in basketball are balance and quickness.

Describes Aaron White pretty well. If he keeps those traits, he should be fine.

At the same time, Basabe seems to have less balance and quickness than last year, perhaps due to inadvisable weight gain. Although it should be pointed out that Wooden also said the two most important things in life are balance and love. So perhaps personal issues related to balance or love are also driving Basabe's sophomore struggles.

Mostly, I wanted to drop a couple John Wooden quotes here.
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oh great i `m in middle of slump , does it mean i gotta go to my gf house
and beg her to take me back?
 
i think that quote is crap. theres no excuses for lack of performances... however if he`s sick or still healing from sprain or whatever, i can understand but he looked to me very healthy basketball player. he didnt have the heart .
 
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