sometimes the fans DO know better than the coaches

hwks1 said:
Of course I'm not saying that. I am saying that some times they lose objectivity because they have too much knowledge and lose that gut feel.

The fans I think can have better 'feel' for a guy in live action.

Just look at KF... how often has he put the right QB on the field? McCann? Christensen? Rudock? I remain amazed that Tate ever played for KF, not exactly KF style player.
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I think you may have something there. Let's put a fan who has not watched any practices during the week on the sidelines during games and tell coaches what their gut feels.
 




Why do people always go to the argument of "he's lazy in practice"? More times then not it's going to be a case of one player being slightly better in practice than another player. In that case the other player might be a "gamer" and play in games better. Now the coach has no way of knowing that until the other player finds a way into the game. But once that happens and the outcome is obvious, the change has to be made. I promise not a single player on the team will say "but the other guy is slightly better in practice!"
 


Also players just want to win. If a guy was extremely lazy in practice and played over a guy who busted *** in practice because he was maybe a tiny bit better, then players might have a problem with it. But how often do you think that extreme example is actually the case?
 


I think it's this

ESPN Spielmann + every other tv talking head (playing to win (4th down attempts) and vertical game)
>
iowa fans =

the pushback by Eddie P in post-game is indicative of that with the appropriate DB back pedaling by HC KF
 
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Stubborness is stubborness. If you act like and talk like the smartest guy in the room, you had better be. Today KF got exposed. Again.
 




PCHawk said:
Why do people always go to the argument of "he's lazy in practice"? More times then not it's going to be a case of one player being slightly better in practice than another player. In that case the other player might be a "gamer" and play in games better. Now the coach has no way of knowing that until the other player finds a way into the game. But once that happens and the outcome is obvious, the change has to be made. I promise not a single player on the team will say "but the other guy is slightly better in practice!"
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As well as he played today I highly doubt he's a steaming piece of garbage in practice. This is Ferentz throwing out excuses to deflect away from his poor personnel decisions.
 


PCHawk said:
Why do people always go to the argument of "he's lazy in practice"? More times then not it's going to be a case of one player being slightly better in practice than another player. In that case the other player might be a "gamer" and play in games better. Now the coach has no way of knowing that until the other player finds a way into the game. But once that happens and the outcome is obvious, the change has to be made. I promise not a single player on the team will say "but the other guy is slightly better in practice!"
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I'm not saying laziness is an issue in the case why some guys like CJ have not been playing. Just saying that coaches are seeing things every day in practice that we as fans don't get to see. I personally will rarely criticize a coach deciding who plays and who doesn't. I will criticize for schemes, play calling and game management.
 


hwks1 said:
I think most times, the fans are more objective.

I call bull to all that practice knowledge. Some guys are technical practice players...some are gamers.

You can watch a live game and generally have a strong idea of the way to go. Coaches are too close to it.. they know too much
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Agreed. Some QBs look great in practice because they aren't afraid of getting crushed, therefore they stand in the pocket and calmly deliver strikes. When it comes to live game action, Rudock checks down and dumps off way too quickly. Beathard hung in there and took some shots give the WR some time to get clear.
I also liked CJ's play action. He sells it better.
 


I think Kirk's overwhelming fear of change or the unknown causes him to make bad decisions. I don't think there is any way fans should have got on Kirk for choosing Rudock in the beginning because there was absolutely no way for us to know. But when it's made perfectly clear that the competition is close and then the one who gets picked struggles so bad to stretch the field that he makes it almost impossible to sustain drives, then the backup actually gets a chance and looks way better, then it's ok for the fans to question things. Then I also think its ok to use hindsight and say that maybe Kirk made a bad decision in the first place after all.

If he starts Rudock next week it's for one of three reasons. Blind loyalty, fear of the less experienced player, or stubbornness and a big F U to the fans. It should have absolutely nothing to do with practice from this point on.
 


lightning1 said:
Agreed. Some QBs look great in practice because they aren't afraid of getting crushed, therefore they stand in the pocket and calmly deliver strikes. When it comes to live game action, Rudock checks down and dumps off way too quickly. Beathard hung in there and took some shots give the WR some time to get clear.
I also liked CJ's play action. He sells it better.
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CJ does sell it better as he doesn't over emphasize it like JR. But, we still continue to call a PA pass on 2nd down after a short gain on 1st down. Open it up. PA on 1st down. Get the DBs thinking about it, then the run game opens up. Remember Hayden's "scratch where it itches?" Why do we stubbornly cling to this "impose our will" mentality?
 


lightning1 said:
Agreed. Some QBs look great in practice because they aren't afraid of getting crushed, therefore they stand in the pocket and calmly deliver strikes. When it comes to live game action, Rudock checks down and dumps off way too quickly. Beathard hung in there and took some shots give the WR some time to get clear.
I also liked CJ's play action. He sells it better.
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Also some people get nervous when the pressure is on and with people watching. With some people pressure brings out there best and they are just cocky or arrogant enough to "want to show how awesome they are" when people are watching.
 


It would be very interesting to see the personal dynamic between KF and CJB. I'm guessing there are a number of things about CJ that create doubt in K's mind and that is a very tough hurdle for him to overlook. But K needs to look at him in a balanced manner instead of placing more weight on his concerns.

If K is going to play each game in a close manner, then he should realize that he may be behind at the end of many games and needs an offensive drive to re-take the lead. In such a case, there is no substitute for poise under pressure and CJ has that quality naturally. It's not that JR cannot develop more poise and confidence with experience but his tendency is to over-think each play from the "avoid the mistake" mentality and CJ does not let that enter into his head, at least I have not seen much evidence of that.

Bottom line, this puts K in a quandary because his natural tendency is to play safe, thus JR. I think that is fine, but only if he plays to build sufficient leads and that has been difficult to do with JR. Therefore, I believe the best option now is to go with CJ and please Coach K, don't try to coach away his natural strengths and ability.
 




I can think of several times that KF has been proven wrong when he's stubbornly played certain players, in spite of all of the evidence stacked against him. He is stubborn.
 




iloveyoularrystation said:
Ummm, i'm gonna guess there's not a thing about college football you know better than Ferentz and the coaching staff except how to watch it on TV.
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At face value of your quote I'd agree 100 percent. But in the context of this discussion I stongly disagree.

Ferentz knows much more about college football than us. No doubt. He's still human and prone to making mistakes and being stubborn.

Many here myself included thought that CJ should get a shot earlier. Ferentz did not. He finally put him in for the second half and it was the only half that the offense looked good.

Just because someone knows a lot about football doesn't mean that they are not capable of making bad decisions. By that logic the Chargers would have known not to draft Ryan Leaf. But even dum dums like me who just "Watch the games on tv" can see that it was a very poor decision. :D
 


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