Some early morning positives and negatives

L

longtimer

Well-Known Member
Recruiting Looks like we have a better chance of landing Epenesa than maybe we thought 2 weeks ago? Would be big When does the wide receiver Smith decide between us and the gophers? Any others we are close to getting?

Defense and special teams are going to be fun to watch. Hopefully a lot of big plays. Hopefully we can play a lot of young players for at least the 4 game limit as we lose a lot for next year

Offense Can we be worse? probably not but I expect Sullivan to be the one to make a difference (if anyone does) McNamara besides the injury issues has never really shown anything that would project him as an even good QB. I read an article by a Michigan Sportswriter last year saying that Cade was a mediocre QB on a very talented team. We shall see Hopefully he proves us wrong.
I just can't bear to watch another offense like last year that can only be described as Painful to watch

NIL I see Ohio State lost a 5 star OL Josh Petty to Georgia Tech for a reported $800,000 per year for 3 years. Wonder where this ends
 
longtimer said:
Offense Can we be worse? probably not but I expect Sullivan to be the one to make a difference (if anyone does) McNamara besides the injury issues has never really shown anything that would project him as an even good QB. I read an article by a Michigan Sportswriter last year saying that Cade was a mediocre QB on a very talented team. We shall see Hopefully he proves us wrong.
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LOL. Nothing to "project him as even a good QB"? Come on. The guy won a conference title. I don't care how talented the team was around him, you don't do that without good QB play. Michigan's offense was highly efficient that season and that boils down to good QB play. The next year, he was barely beat out by a kid that was just drafted 10th overall (and now has blown his knee, damn Norse bad luck).

You want to discount the kid due to injury and you won't get any argument from me. But, if you look at tape and results in conference play to date, there is no comparison to what Sullivan and CM have done.

That said, I am not living in the past. Whoever looks best in camp should start. Period.
 
longtimer said:
Recruiting Looks like we have a better chance of landing Epenesa than maybe we thought 2 weeks ago? Would be big When does the wide receiver Smith decide between us and the gophers? Any others we are close to getting?

Defense and special teams are going to be fun to watch. Hopefully a lot of big plays. Hopefully we can play a lot of young players for at least the 4 game limit as we lose a lot for next year

Offense Can we be worse? probably not but I expect Sullivan to be the one to make a difference (if anyone does) McNamara besides the injury issues has never really shown anything that would project him as an even good QB. I read an article by a Michigan Sportswriter last year saying that Cade was a mediocre QB on a very talented team. We shall see Hopefully he proves us wrong.
I just can't bear to watch another offense like last year that can only be described as Painful to watch

NIL I see Ohio State lost a 5 star OL Josh Petty to Georgia Tech for a reported $800,000 per year for 3 years. Wonder where this ends
Click to expand...
Yea the Epenesa news seems to be trending the right direction now. I haven't seen anything recently on that WR for quite awhile now. I'm curious about that as well. Fleck is notorious for putting the pressure on recruits to commit fast so the longer he takes the more I like our chances. But I base that on next to nothing.

The whole QB thing is interesting it feels like whether KF wants it or not he's got a QB battle on his hands. I'm actually a bit torn on it. It'd be great if Cade could just take the bull by the horns and run with it. But since he's clearly not I'm intrigued by seeing what Sullivan can do in this O. He's significantly more mobile and could run the read option plays more often and better. And he's got another yr to play so having 2 yrs of being in it instead of sitting this yr and playing next could be big for him and Lesters chemistry. End of the day I just want the best one out there early and not be going back and forth unless it's injury related.
 
longtimer said:
Recruiting Looks like we have a better chance of landing Epenesa than maybe we thought 2 weeks ago? Would be big When does the wide receiver Smith decide between us and the gophers? Any others we are close to getting?

Defense and special teams are going to be fun to watch. Hopefully a lot of big plays. Hopefully we can play a lot of young players for at least the 4 game limit as we lose a lot for next year

Offense Can we be worse? probably not but I expect Sullivan to be the one to make a difference (if anyone does) McNamara besides the injury issues has never really shown anything that would project him as an even good QB. I read an article by a Michigan Sportswriter last year saying that Cade was a mediocre QB on a very talented team. We shall see Hopefully he proves us wrong.
I just can't bear to watch another offense like last year that can only be described as Painful to watch

NIL I see Ohio State lost a 5 star OL Josh Petty to Georgia Tech for a reported $800,000 per year for 3 years. Wonder where this ends
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Mediocre QB play would be a huge improvement over last year.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
Yea the Epenesa news seems to be trending the right direction now. I haven't seen anything recently on that WR for quite awhile now. I'm curious about that as well. Fleck is notorious for putting the pressure on recruits to commit fast so the longer he takes the more I like our chances. But I base that on next to nothing.

The whole QB thing is interesting it feels like whether KF wants it or not he's got a QB battle on his hands. I'm actually a bit torn on it. It'd be great if Cade could just take the bull by the horns and run with it. But since he's clearly not I'm intrigued by seeing what Sullivan can do in this O. He's significantly more mobile and could run the read option plays more often and better. And he's got another yr to play so having 2 yrs of being in it instead of sitting this yr and playing next could be big for him and Lesters chemistry. End of the day I just want the best one out there early and not be going back and forth unless it's injury related.
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Unless one QB or the other just pulls away in camp, I would love to see each get some reps in the opener. give them each a quarter and evaluate who gets the second half from there.

This sacrosanct notion that you cannot rotate QBs is just tired logic. If we can't beat Illinois State while trotting out two veteran QBs for a looksy, this gonna be a long season.
 
NorthKCHawk said:
Unless one QB or the other just pulls away in camp, I would love to see each get some reps in the opener. give them each a quarter and evaluate who gets the second half from there.

This sacrosanct notion that you cannot rotate QBs is just tired logic. If we can't beat Illinois State while trotting out two veteran QBs for a looksy, this gonna be a long season.
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Yeah this is one thing Kirk never learned from Hayden Fry. Give the backups as much of a chance to play so they are ready if needed. This is especially true at the QB position. Hayden also didn't go out there against the weaker teams and play conservative offense. If we were considerably much better we would crush the team and by the beginning of the second half the backups were on the field getting in reps.

I am not addressing that particularly to you because we are both old enough to have experienced Hayden from day one of his hire and we both witnessed his greatness. I'd take him over Kirk if given the chance to choose after all that I seen. Hayden wasn't afraid to roll the dice on offense and his defense were solid also.

Goodcompany is funny commenting once on me being an old guy, yet I am six years younger than Kirk. Does that make Kirk ancient? One day a ancient dig will dig up Kirk's bones and they will find him gripping a football so tight that no one will be able to separate the ball from his hands. If they did separate the ball from his hands Kirk's skeleton would sit up grab a note pad and pen and start writing it down. I sure if they also find Brian's playbook they will sit in over in the dinosaur section of the museum........... I kid, I kid....... just having a little fun this morning.

I am just grateful that we have an OC that has been a successful QB and had ton's of coaching experience. Tim should be able to figure out how to get Cade back on the right track. In one interview I watched with Cade he admitted he was having issue's with dealing with "Happy Feet". Chuck Long mentioned he noticed the QB's throwing from their back foot. Those mechanics can be worked out with practice and dramatically improve their accuracy and velocity of their throws.
 
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NorthKCHawk said:
Unless one QB or the other just pulls away in camp, I would love to see each get some reps in the opener. give them each a quarter and evaluate who gets the second half from there.

This sacrosanct notion that you cannot rotate QBs is just tired logic. If we can't beat Illinois State while trotting out two veteran QBs for a looksy, this gonna be a long season.
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If say one qb brings something the other doesn't and you want to take advantage of ones legs or stronger arm situationally that's one thing. But from a leading the teams perspective I'd like to think you sort that out before you play against a scrub team if you can. KF and most coaches aren't about that rotating QBs just to do it. He wants to have one be the guy.

It's not about just beating IL St. It's about setting a tone for the yr and hitching the wagons to the leader. Yeah it's an archaic way of maybe doing it. If players are just told from the git go hey we'll be rotating you every quarter or half then it is what it is. I think the coaches are who have the bigger issue with it then the players. The players are at the coaches mercy anyway.
 
BigD said:
Yeah this is one thing Kirk never learned from Hayden Fry. Give the backups as much of a chance to play so they are ready if needed. This is especially true at the QB position. Hayden also didn't go out there against the weaker teams and play conservative offense. If we were considerably much better we would crush the team and by the beginning of the second half the backups were on the field getting in reps.
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Yeah we haven't been in the position to be crushing teams for quite awhile now unfortunately. It's just not a scenario KF has had to navigate. I just thought last yr was so stupid... It literally took till the bowl game for them to sit down Hill when that coulda shoulda been done every game he played. They coulda been trying to coach up Lainez situationally. No feelings from Hill coulda gotten hurt had they yanked him for Lainez for a quarter or even just a series here or there. They coulda went into games having a package of plays for Lainez to run taking advantage of his legs. But BF & KF are just too rigid and unimaginative with their thinking.

And I know all that goes against what I'd just said about having 1 leader. But last yr with Hill specifically we didn't have such a thing. He was so so bad. He's not a D1 level qb that to me we shoulda threw out all the 'rules' and just tried some different things. Cause we hit rock bottom with QB play last yr to say the least.
 
The other thing to rotating QBs, assuming that CM ends up being the starter, is that it presents less game reps and contact for a veteran guy with injury issues. I would love to see Sullivan get a series or two and do some running things that CM cannot or should not be doing. The less hits CM takes, the more likely he can make it through the season. I understand the team leader aspect of things, but the team needs more than one leader and I suspect Sullivan has the respect of his teammates as well.

If you have two QBs that bring different skillsets, play them both and make the DC prepare for both styles.
 
NorthKCHawk said:
LOL. Nothing to "project him as even a good QB"? Come on. The guy won a conference title. I don't care how talented the team was around him, you don't do that without good QB play. Michigan's offense was highly efficient that season and that boils down to good QB play. The next year, he was barely beat out by a kid that was just drafted 10th overall (and now has blown his knee, damn Norse bad luck).

You want to discount the kid due to injury and you won't get any argument from me. But, if you look at tape and results in conference play to date, there is no comparison to what Sullivan and CM have done.

That said, I am not living in the past. Whoever looks best in camp should start. Period.
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My comments about Cade were based on Michigan sportswriter and to a limited degree his performance last year before his injury. As far as not winning a division without a QB Iowa did it winning with the worst offense in the country and the worst QB I have ever seen at Iowa???
 
Hawkfnntn said:
Yeah we haven't been in the position to be crushing teams for quite awhile now unfortunately. It's just not a scenario KF has had to navigate. I just thought last yr was so stupid... It literally took till the bowl game for them to sit down Hill when that coulda shoulda been done every game he played. They coulda been trying to coach up Lainez situationally. No feelings from Hill coulda gotten hurt had they yanked him for Lainez for a quarter or even just a series here or there. They coulda went into games having a package of plays for Lainez to run taking advantage of his legs. But BF & KF are just too rigid and unimaginative with their thinking.

And I know all that goes against what I'd just said about having 1 leader. But last yr with Hill specifically we didn't have such a thing. He was so so bad. He's not a D1 level qb that to me we shoulda threw out all the 'rules' and just tried some different things. Cause we hit rock bottom with QB play last yr to say the least.
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How can anyone argue with your point. The offense would have been more productive if Lainez had been put in and we ran nothing but the wish bone with an occasional pass of some kind just to mix things up. Obviously any thing would have been an improvement.
 
Thinking back to the old Alabama teams and Geogia teams that would just run the ball down opponents throats until they just wore them out and ran over them in the fourth quarter. I am trying to think of the name of the old Heisman trophy winner from Geogia that was a powerful running back that did just that. His name is on the tip of my tongue.
 
BigD said:
Thinking back to the old Alabama teams and Geogia teams that would just run the ball down opponents throats until they just wore them out and ran over them in the fourth quarter. I am trying to think of the name of the old Heisman trophy winner from Geogia that was a powerful running back that did just that. His name is on the tip of my tongue.
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You are thinking of Frank Sinkwich.
 
BigD said:
Yeah this is one thing Kirk never learned from Hayden Fry. Give the backups as much of a chance to play so they are ready if needed. This is especially true at the QB position. Hayden also didn't go out there against the weaker teams and play conservative offense. If we were considerably much better we would crush the team and by the beginning of the second half the backups were on the field getting in reps.

I am not addressing that particularly to you because we are both old enough to have experienced Hayden from day one of his hire and we both witnessed his greatness. I'd take him over Kirk if given the chance to choose after all that I seen. Hayden wasn't afraid to roll the dice on offense and his defense were solid also.

Goodcompany is funny commenting once on me being an old guy, yet I am six years younger than Kirk. Does that make Kirk ancient? One day a ancient dig will dig up Kirk's bones and they will find him gripping a football so tight that no one will be able to separate the ball from his hands. If they did separate the ball from his hands Kirk's skeleton would sit up grab a note pad and pen and start writing it down. I sure if they also find Brian's playbook they will sit in over in the dinosaur section of the museum........... I kid, I kid....... just having a little fun this morning.

I am just grateful that we have an OC that has been a successful QB and had ton's of coaching experience. Tim should be able to figure out how to get Cade back on the right track. In one interview I watched with Cade he admitted he was having issue's with dealing with "Happy Feet". Chuck Long mentioned he noticed the QB's throwing from their back foot. Those mechanics can be worked out with practice and dramatically improve their accuracy and velocity of their throws.
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Holy shit, you're old AF ;)
 
longtimer said:
My comments about Cade were based on Michigan sportswriter and to a limited degree his performance last year before his injury. As far as not winning a division without a QB Iowa did it winning with the worst offense in the country and the worst QB I have ever seen at Iowa???
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I didn't say division, I said conference title. Winning the west is no shakes. Everyone's QB sucked in the West. But when we got to the title game we were trucked by Michigan. Different level of talent.

As for Michigan writers, given that JJ was in the fold, I am sure that they thought CM was outclassed. Turns out he was. Does not mean he is not more talented that any QB Iowa has had since Beatherd. Again, programs with different levels of talent.

As for injury last year, um, Cade sustained his injury in camp and never fully recovered and then reinjured it and was out for the season. You don't remember his one-legged scramble for 20 yards in the second game. Kid needed crutches out there. So, you have never seen a healthy CM in an Iowa uniform. Let's hope you do this year.
 
BigD said:
I read about him and he was a great running back in Geogia football history but before my time. However you did jar my memory and the one I was thinking of was Hershel Walker.
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The guy who made the Dallas Cowboys America's Team again without ever playing a snap for them.
 
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