In your opinion, what does it take to be defensively talented? I would say 75% of it is mental and 25% is ability.
So why are we so bad?
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In your opinion, what does it take to be defensively talented? I would say 75% of it is mental and 25% is ability.
Lateral quickness, foot speed and instincts. Defense is much more about ability than is mental. You think Bohannon is so bad defensively because he's not smart or doesn't try?
OUTofTOWNHAWK
Well-Known Member
Defense. You don't have to have a ton of talent to pay good defense. Defense is contagious on a team.
Mike G, Clemons, and woody worked very hard on defense. Apparently jok can't portray that to this years team.
Mike G, Clemons, and woody worked very hard on defense. Apparently jok can't portray that to this years team.
SteveGarvey1
Well-Known Member
We're going to experience a 2-3 year dip in making the Big Dance. I wonder if the fan base won't try to run Fran out of town by the 3rd year, it being what it is.
I sure hope Moss works out. I hope Garza is the big we need down low. I hope Wieskamp is as good as advertised. I hope Conner and Patrick aren't just going to be on the team because they're Fran's sons but because they're really that good. I hope Fran signs another difference-maker soon....
I sure hope Moss works out. I hope Garza is the big we need down low. I hope Wieskamp is as good as advertised. I hope Conner and Patrick aren't just going to be on the team because they're Fran's sons but because they're really that good. I hope Fran signs another difference-maker soon....
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
It's 50% ability, 25% coaching, and 25% mental (not lazy). Miss any of those and you can't play D. Again, very few of these guys played against real speed in high school. Most of them could fit in as a role player on D with other good D players (last year we had a 7 footer in the middle), as a collective group they are horrible. Izzo, Crean, Beilein and whoever is at Wisky will tear them to shreds.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
No, have a couple of good defenders on a team and it covers others weaknesses a lot. The individual defense by and large last couple of years was terrible as a group. Some individuals were either good by effort or in Woody's case, cause he's 7 foot. He played terrible position D though.
STILLBUSTER
Well-Known Member
You and me both, brother! All this drivel emphasizing it being a "guard" game is bunk! You can get by with competent guard play - someone who can direct the offense, control tempo, take care of and distribute the ball (Think Nathan Chandler at QB; I'm confident JorBo is going to fill this role very well)- but you aren't winning a damn thing without a strong, tough interior post player who contributes on both ends.
Iowa has not had a big, tough, productive post under Fran, period.
- Woody was tall but was so athletically and offensively limited that he often played "soft" and would be nothing more than a 5th body, even, occasionally, a liability.
- Gabe was an athlete with nice height. He found a shot-blocking niche on D but was very unreliable on offense.
- Wagner's 6'7; Uhl's a 6'9 pile of hot garbage. Neither is big enough / tough enough to do anything inside.
- The closest, most productive interior player was White. Even though he wasn't a true, back-to-the-basket player, he had enough size, savvy and scrappiness to play inside,
Even with legit candidates with potential to be complete post players (Woody, Gabe) this staff completely SUCKS at coaching up the inside. Not a single development of offensive moves on the blocks from a single player under McCaffery - not the most basic drop-step, baby hook, or, reverse with the off-hand, or, even a simple pivot and pump fake; NOTHING! The "strategy" to continuously hedge posts on defense is not only stupid misuse of personnel, it's completely self-destructive!
Lack of a true post player with competent skills and understanding of the interior is THEE #1 reason why Iowa has collapsed / struggled in February and late season. As the season progresses, it's easier to figure out how to disrupt / defend a shooter than to stop a formidable post player. Simple basketball philosophy dictates that, the further you take your game (force your opponent) away from the basket, the higher the degree of difficulty to score (the easier it is to defend).
This year is the epitome of this concept, proven by a quick glance at where Iowa is getting (and will continue to get) pummeled by every P5 opponent -- points in the paint, offensive rebounds / easy put backs. Everything else deteriorates from there.
hawkeyemark
Well-Known Member
Great post here that highlights an overlooked aspect of the game. I've watched college basketball since the Lute era and consider point guard and center the two most important positions on the court. It blew my mind two seasons ago that Fran recruited a class full of wing players with Woodbury and Gesell on the verge of graduating and it appears that only Moss has the potential to become a major contributor out of that group with Ellingson playing a support role if he sticks around.
Adam Woodbury seemed to have very thick skin as the criticism from the fan base seemed merciless almost from the moment he stepped on campus. Fran never used him right and he never developed on the offensive side of the ball which I think he might have under a better coaching staff like at Wisconsin. You win and lose games in the paint and this seems outside of Fran's coaching philosophy.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
EVERYONE on the team can play better defense. Maybe not good defense, but better defense.
1. You can't block a shot? Well, blocked shots are defensive last resorts. Everyone CAN draw a charge, but how many have we drawn this year?
2. How many times have we let someone drive from the perimeter and go all the way to the basket? It's a matter of will and effort that stops this.
3. How many times to these same opponents driving to the basket not get knocked to the floor by our bigs? You knock a player to the floor with a hard foul and he thinks twice before going there again. You only have five fouls to use in a game; make them count.
4. How many second, third and fourth shots do we give up? A big part of defense is boxing out for a rebound, and that's will and effort. You have to WANT to box out, to find your man and body him out and THEN go get the ball.
These are just a few things we can do to vastly improve the team defense. And it's up to the players, not the coaches, to have the will and intensity to play defense. The coaches can talk defensive schemes and how they want the players to defend certain plays, positioning, boxing out, etc., but it's up to the players to actually do it. And that's will and intensity on the players' part.
Wisconsin has had a lot of teams that defend very well who weren't as athletic as our team is now. Look at the UNI teams. Get defense by unathletic players. Our main problem right now is post defense due to mental mistakes and passive play.
Uni always has good defenders. Morgan is one of the best defenders in the country
You still didn't answer my question. Last year we started 4 very talented defensive players, who on this team is distinctively talented?
So UNI always has elite athletes?
trj
Well-Known Member
Not sure I agree with this just on how the game is played now. Your bigs now have to have the ability to guard people out in space on the perimeter . Today your 4 and 5 want to hang out on the perimeter.
The way you and I grew up playing/watching basketball you would be a 1000% correct. I am not sure how applicable it is now when everything is about spacing and spreading you out.
STILLBUSTER
Well-Known Member
Jok is the last guy anyone should ever expect to "portray" defense. His horrible positioning / stance and lax effort barely qualify as a bad impression of defense.
Looking to Jok for defensive leadership is like looking to Ickey for guidance on productive interactions and public relations.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
I can think of 2. Woody was not talented defensively. He by his size made a defensive impact. His hands/arms especially were terrible. His positioning wasn't so good. If he bodied up, he couldn't stop anyone well. He did make a big difference as a 7 footer and helped cover a lot of weakness.
hawkeyemark
Well-Known Member
Big men floating out on the perimeter like they do now seems trendy akin to the spread offense in football which to some degree seems to have fallen out of favor somewhat. You have a point that your big man now does need to have the ability to guard further out. But when you lack an inside post presence like we do now teams take advantage of that and it hurts you when it comes to rebounding and giving up drives to the basket.
The fundamentals of the game really haven't changed in that you have to rebound and defend in the paint whether it comes from guards driving or an opposing center making moves inside. Getting production in the middle always enhances your chances of winning. Remember all the games we lost when Fran would insert McCabe into the post in key stretches in the early days of Woodbury/Olesani? That didn't work out so well as I recall.
trj
Well-Known Member
Fair point. The Iowa defense is atrocious and I am not trying to defend it. I am just not sure if the old school way to defend is the right approach.
thedukeofearl
Well-Known Member
Relax, It is a rebuilding year after all. One returning starter who cannot carry the team by himself. This is a team in serious flux. Massive rebuilding of the program with 7 freshman, 4 sophomores with only Baer and Wagner carrying substantial game minutes, 1 junior with experience and 1 senior not on the injured list.....
Once again, a reminder that we are not Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina or Duke and will Never be able to duplicate their success year after year with top ten ranking before and after the season.....
This team is searching for an identity and functional starting lineup. Everything is in a state of disrepair and will take a while to correct itself. The pieces are there to work with. We have already seen, on occasion, the team we have been expecting.....
Team is coming together somewhat, although much more slowly than I anticipated. Starting to integrate Jordan into the point guard position. He will do very well, especially when he settles into the role and adjusts his pace.....
Tyler Cook will be a handful for the opponents when he returns. His upside is enormous, especially if he develops a reliable mid range/ three.....
Pensl is going to be very good inside, giving us a scoring option that has been missing for years.....
Baer and Moss will be essential to the success of the team this year. Both are capable on the floor, just do not have the ability to carry the team offensively right now. That will change when this team starts rolling......
And: Peter Jok, doing everything he can right now and doing it well, on offense.....
The entire team needs to develop an efficient defensive strategy. Press doesn't appear to be working. The half court trap is supremely ineffective. Perhaps drop the press completely and get back on D, playing man or zone or some combination of the two.....
Time for a break:
It is coming. Components are there and Have to be arranged in a competent fashion. I am not at all concerned that this team will manifest itself, surprising everyone.....
Give these Lads time. They have the ability and attitude to become a very nice team, the team that nobody wants to play at the end of the season. Upsets will be coming down the pike.....
That's All......
Once again, a reminder that we are not Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina or Duke and will Never be able to duplicate their success year after year with top ten ranking before and after the season.....
This team is searching for an identity and functional starting lineup. Everything is in a state of disrepair and will take a while to correct itself. The pieces are there to work with. We have already seen, on occasion, the team we have been expecting.....
Team is coming together somewhat, although much more slowly than I anticipated. Starting to integrate Jordan into the point guard position. He will do very well, especially when he settles into the role and adjusts his pace.....
Tyler Cook will be a handful for the opponents when he returns. His upside is enormous, especially if he develops a reliable mid range/ three.....
Pensl is going to be very good inside, giving us a scoring option that has been missing for years.....
Baer and Moss will be essential to the success of the team this year. Both are capable on the floor, just do not have the ability to carry the team offensively right now. That will change when this team starts rolling......
And: Peter Jok, doing everything he can right now and doing it well, on offense.....
The entire team needs to develop an efficient defensive strategy. Press doesn't appear to be working. The half court trap is supremely ineffective. Perhaps drop the press completely and get back on D, playing man or zone or some combination of the two.....
Time for a break:
It is coming. Components are there and Have to be arranged in a competent fashion. I am not at all concerned that this team will manifest itself, surprising everyone.....
Give these Lads time. They have the ability and attitude to become a very nice team, the team that nobody wants to play at the end of the season. Upsets will be coming down the pike.....
That's All......
thedukeofearl
Well-Known Member
Press doesn't appear to be working
Massive Understatement.....
Massive Understatement.....
