So Rob Howe wrote an article....

Fryowa said:
My experience in life so far is that 2 types of people get kept around and promoted.

1) People who work hard, treat people fairly, and are good at what they do.

2) Yes-men who primarily slither their way into the inner circles by sucking up to people in charge and who project to those people in charge a different personality than the one they use when dealing with their subordinates.

I'll let you decide which one you think Wallace fits into.
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The number 1's have little respect for the number 2's. Number 2's have animosity toward the number 1's. However, life and this country is full of the number 2's.
 


NorthKCHawk said:
Fry, here is another way to look at it. I manage roughly 25 people in various capacities, and sometimes people screw up. Rare is the case that the mistake is so drastic that on the first occasion I am showing them the door. Good corporate culture is one of accountability, but also grace and opportunity to grow. If your workforce is scared that one mistake will get them fired, well, you won't have a workforce of people willing to take chances and willing to invest in the company.

Here, KF had an issue with his assistants. It was bad. KF loved Doyle. He was as close to him as anyone and Doyle was an OG. He also loved Wallace. Then there was his dopey son. But, can we not give KF the benefit of the doubt that he looked at this situation and concluded that what Doyle did was beyond repair, and he needed to show him the door, but he thought Wallace and BF could learn and grow and be better men and coaches after being shown the error of their ways? People suggest that Doyle was the scapegoat, but man, no one can really know what happened behind closed doors and what discussions were had. Maybe Doyle was not sorry, did not think he did anything wrong, and would not change, while the other two were humbled and embarrassed by their blind spots? We don't know. What we do know is that KF treated these three men differently for bad conduct, which tells me that he took a long look at the situation and decided that Wallace could change and be a long term part of the program.

I have not heard or understood that the racial and bulling culture has resurfaced since the changes were made, which would suggest that perhaps Wallace was humbled by the allegations and sincerely changed?

Either way, I thought the article was ill-timed and was long on conclusions and short on context. That is out of character for Rob, IMHO.
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IMHO, I don't think firing Doyle was Kirk's decision.
 


Gander Hawk said:
IMHO, I don't think firing Doyle was Kirk's decision.
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Doyle did a really long sit down interview with a reporter from Des Moines a year or two ago, and I got the impression that Kirk probably had at least some say in it.

Doyle was asked if he has talked to anyone from Iowa since he got fired and his answer was no. Said from the night before he got fired until the day of the interview he had not had a single text or communication from Kirk whatsoever. Now I know the U probably told KF not to communicate with him because of the lawsuit, but that's been over for a while and Doyle sounded pretty jilted by it. If they were buds and Kirk didn't have any hand in it, there would've been some communications at some point whether official or not. Even if they couldn't admit publicly to conversing, Doyle wouldn't have said so emphatically that no one had contacted him. He was somewhat emotional.

Doyle deserved to get fired 100%, but KF also used him as the whipping boy to save Wallace and BF.
 




NorthKCHawk said:
Fry, here is another way to look at it. I manage roughly 25 people in various capacities, and sometimes people screw up. Rare is the case that the mistake is so drastic that on the first occasion I am showing them the door. Good corporate culture is one of accountability, but also grace and opportunity to grow. If your workforce is scared that one mistake will get them fired, well, you won't have a workforce of people willing to take chances and willing to invest in the company.

Here, KF had an issue with his assistants. It was bad. KF loved Doyle. He was as close to him as anyone and Doyle was an OG. He also loved Wallace. Then there was his dopey son. But, can we not give KF the benefit of the doubt that he looked at this situation and concluded that what Doyle did was beyond repair, and he needed to show him the door, but he thought Wallace and BF could learn and grow and be better men and coaches after being shown the error of their ways? People suggest that Doyle was the scapegoat, but man, no one can really know what happened behind closed doors and what discussions were had. Maybe Doyle was not sorry, did not think he did anything wrong, and would not change, while the other two were humbled and embarrassed by their blind spots? We don't know. What we do know is that KF treated these three men differently for bad conduct, which tells me that he took a long look at the situation and decided that Wallace could change and be a long term part of the program.

I have not heard or understood that the racial and bulling culture has resurfaced since the changes were made, which would suggest that perhaps Wallace was humbled by the allegations and sincerely changed?

Either way, I thought the article was ill-timed and was long on conclusions and short on context. That is out of character for Rob, IMHO.
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Yeah the convos with Barta and KF about this at the time woulda been fascinating to know. Cause I'm sure that Barta and the powers that be after all that demanded that they had to get a pound of flesh. KF firing BF was a complete non starter and letting go of Wallace and Doyle woulda been a tough pill to swallow. KF leans on his assistants a shit ton maybe more then most.

We all know that Doyle was KFs right hand man for the duration of his time there. He was #2 within the organization and it wasn't even close. But he was who HAD to go. I woulda also liked to have been privy to the convos between him and KF throughout that. Cause that bridge wasn't burnt to the ground it was blown up with a nuke. It's easy to see how the hard feelings would emerge from all that but surely Doyle could see that firing him wasn't what KF wanted to do. So maybe that's the disconnect. He thought KF did have a choice and Doyle felt like he was thrown under the bus.

Wallace has shown to be a good coach and recruiter. Maybe it's just that simple for KF to where he wasn't going dump him either. We've had pretty dang good LB rooms over his time here and with him being the ultimate company yes man to KF it just endears him to him that much.

When we talk about what ifs I'd certainly say that that fork in the road for the program was a mighty mighty big one. Had KF let those guys all go how would things have gone? Offensively getting rid of BF could've only been a good thing. Replacing Wallace woulda been problematic. Maybe Hodge woulda been brought on to be LB coach instead of TEs something like that. Hard to say.
 




HawkeyeDug said:
This is exactly what I expected from this board. Mostly just excusing it away, or distancing themselves. I'm sure most didn't even get all the way through that two minute read. For sure very few of you read the reports. Only 19 pages between them. You probably spend more time reading these posts than it takes to read those reports. If you truly cared about the program you would read them. Understand them. Think about them and what they mean. About Kirk, the program, and the university as a whole. I have not yet read the reports, but I'm going to once I post this reply. I suspect I will not like what I read.

This board is truly a microcosm of our country today.
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FYI, don't start shit on this thread going after what you think forum members' intentions are. That's a good way to start an argument and it's not happening here. If you want to rant and whine and piss and moan about members' opinions go do it on the OT Open Discussion board. This isn't a thread for people who are mad about what other people think.

Only warning. This thread has been EXTREMELY civilized to this point and I'm not ruining it. Your post just now was exactly the kind of thing that turned HN into chaos during the scandal and COVID, but now you have an outlet in OT where you can yell at the trees if you want. Literally no one here cares about your opinion of the board or it's members.
 






NCHawker said:
Rob, the difference between you and others is that others have moved on. Others are not stuck in resentment. Others arn't mired in contempt dressed up as rightousness. People do bad things every day. I just can't spend time stewing about the sins of others.
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See this.

Knock it off.

Either talk about the thread subject without arguing with other posters, or go....
 


Last time I'm going to mention this before a few dumbasses unfortunately are going to have to make me nuke this thread.

No arguing with other posters. I've had to delete 5 posts so far this morning of people whining "nana nana boo boo" at other members like toddlers.

Take it to OT if you wanna do that. This isn't turning back into 2020 again, sorry.
 


Fryowa said:
FYI, don't start shit (...)
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That is fair. I did not mean to disturb the hive.

I do hope that people read the report. I think t it is pretty damning. All the coaching side has is "I didn't know", "Nobody told me", and victim blaming. A good number of things to consider, from all sides, that I think should be discussed. But, I know how that goes and I already had my warning.
 


HawkeyeDug said:
That is fair. I did not mean to disturb the hive.

I do hope that people read the report. I think t it is pretty damning. All the coaching side has is "I didn't know", "Nobody told me", and victim blaming. A good number of things to consider, from all sides, that I think should be discussed. But, I know how that goes and I already had my warning.
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We created the OT Open board just for that purpose. If you start a thread there you'll get the kind of discussion and debate you were looking for. I non-sarcastically encourage you to use it...best of both worlds for members who do or don't want to read it.
 


Fryowa said:
We created the OT Open board just for that purpose. If you start a thread there you'll get the kind of discussion and debate you were looking for. I non-sarcastically encourage you to use it...best of both worlds for members who do or don't want to read it.
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If another thread gets started there I might check in. I doubt I find the type of discussion I am looking for.
I don't wish to get into politics. Just what that report means, what we think about it, how that makes us feel about, and why we have these thought and feelings and if they are rational/right.

That's a tough order to fill.

Actually, I will start a thread.
 




Gander Hawk said:
IMHO, I don't think firing Doyle was Kirk's decision.
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I don't either. He wouldn't have fired Doyle much the same way he never woulda gotten rid of BF if he wasn't forced to. (it took alot of on the field ineptness and a new AD to finally get rid of BF) Doyle probably thinks KF didn't put up a fight to try and keep him not knowing how those convos between Barta and whomever above him was putting the pressure on went woulda been interesting. That's what I'd have liked to have been a fly on the wall for. What was KFs thought process to it all. Obviously his kid could do no wrong and Wallace ended up staying. It felt really scape goatish from where I sit to have gotten rid of Doyle and nobody else. But I don't think I know the half of it.
 


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