So Rob Howe wrote an article....

[HawkIowa44]

Fry, I totally agree with you on the three coaches who should have been let go as well as I want nothing to do with Wallace as the next head coach. My question is how did Wallace manage to weasel his way into the Associate Head Coach roll? Does he have something on Kirk that allowed him to stay on and actually get promotion after promotion? I hope Beth takes those past indiscretions into account when the next head coach hiring happens. Are the big boosters involved with Wallace as well? A leader of men does not make fun of boys and men they are there to protect and teach. He should be nowhere near that job.

 

[Fryowa]

My question is how did Wallace manage to weasel his way into the Associate Head Coach roll? Does he have something on Kirk that allowed him to stay on and actually get promotion after promotion?

My experience in life so far is that 2 types of people get kept around and promoted.

1) People who work hard, treat people fairly, and are good at what they do.

2) Yes-men who primarily slither their way into the inner circles by sucking up to people in charge and who project to those people in charge a different personality than the one they use when dealing with their subordinates.

I'll let you decide which one you think Wallace fits into.

 

[HawkIowa44]

My experience in life so far is that 2 types of people get kept around and promoted.

1) People who work hard, treat people fairly, and are good at what they do.

2) Yes-men who primarily slither their way into the inner circles by sucking up to people in charge and who project to those people in charge a different personality than the one they use when dealing with their subordinates.

I'll let you decide which one you think Wallace fits into.

 

[Fryowa]

Here's the simplest way to do it...

Would Seth Wallace have treated Steve, James, or Brian Ferentz the same way he treated Jack Kallenberger if they had had a severe learning disorder? The answer is no, and that tells me all I need to know about his character.

 

[HawkIowa44]

We all assume Kirk knew something, but why shield him? It's like Joe Pa knew his assistant was a disgusting piece of sh!t. That's the major problem I have with Kirk retaining him.

 

[Fryowa]

We all assume Kirk knew something, but why shield him? It's like Joe Pa knew his assistant was a disgusting piece of sh!t. That's the major problem I have with Kirk retaining him.

I doubt Kirk knew the severity of it until Kallenberger spoke out. JK even kept the reason he was quitting secret from Reese Morgan who was the most beloved coach in the program, I don't think he probably reported any of that to anyone.

However, once it did come to light I think Wallace should've gotten a bus ticket back to Kentucky where he came from.

There's pretty good evidence that Paterno knew Sandusky liked young boys for a long time prior to the scandal breaking.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

Even if Wallace had zero baggage (and having any negative mentions in the law firm's report is at least a little baggage), I still don't think Goetz would roll the dice on an assistant who has never been a head coach. It is simply too critical of a hire. If Woods blows her away with his vision in an interview and everyone around the program (coaches, staffers, players, parents) reach out to her to elevate him, she may pause a bit. But even then, I think the best she'd likely do is promise that'd she'd make a strong recommendation to the next coach that he consider retaining Woods.

 

[Fryowa]

Even if Wallace had zero baggage (and having any negative mentions in the law firm's report is at least a little baggage), I still don't think Goetz would roll the dice on an assistant who has never been a head coach. It is simply too critical of a hire. If Woods blows her away with his vision in an interview and everyone around the program (coaches, staffers, players, parents) reach out to her to elevate him, she may pause a bit. But even then, I think the best she'd likely do is promise that'd she'd make a strong recommendation to the next coach that he consider retaining Woods.

If I had to bet my guess is Lester is a front runner. If it’s not Lester, Woods, or Fat Pitzgerald I’ll be disappointed.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

I appreciate the civility in this thread up to this point, btw, and I don't have any intentions of moving it to OT as long as it keeps going that way.

For those of us on the board in 2020 during the Iowa football chaos and COVID, we can all remember what that was like and this is much, much better.

Agreed. Its nice being on a board with good people who can discuss things with civility.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

If I had to bet my guess is Lester is a front runner. If it’s not Lester, Woods, or Fat Pitzgerald I’ll be disappointed.

You might be right. He's so likeable and down to earth in his interviews. I bet Goetz likes what she sees, including that he seems to get the state and understands the role includes being an ambassador...and also likes that he is well traveled and well connected within the industry (see Matt LaFleuer and Ruggiero).

She could minimize some risk by theoretically keeping much of the infrastructure in place with a Lester hire. Maybe Phil sticks around as DC, names Bell assistant DC, Ruggiero becomes OC if still around, Woods elevated to associate HC - just spitballin' here...

The downside is hiring essentially a .500 MAC coach to lead a Big Ten program.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

I think the biggest cancers in the program were Doyle, Wallace, and BF. Doyle was gone immediately which was good. Wallace should've been gone immediately and probably Brian too.

That's my biggest gripe with KF in the whole thing. They decided to make an example out of only Doyle in hopes of it going away and for the most part it worked. That was enough for most people. I don't think KF was as guilty of being a racist as he was of being ignorant number one, and selling part of his soul to keep Wallace and BF around.

No one is perfect. I've said and thought plenty of things in my life that I shouldn't have. That can be fixed most times if someone reflects. I think KF probably did that. My problem is he didn't do enough to fix the program when it came to accountability in Wallace and Brian. Those were the only two other individuals that had complaints come out from players and those complaints were really, really bad. We know the reason Brian was kept on staff, and after Wallace became assistant HC we know why he was kept. He's the son KF never had.

It would be ignorant to think the KF was in the weight room directly hearing what Doyle was saying, how BF treated guys in practice, and heard/saw how Wallace treated players like Kallenberger. At the P4 level head coaches aren't in those places. If you think they are you're just flat wrong...it doesn't work that way. P4 head coaches are like CEOs of big companies...they're managing at a high level and assistant caches are like supervisors directly running departments and interacting with employees every day. I've personally talked to several former players just because I got to know them in high school sports where I live. My part of the state has a lot of Hawkeye football players past and present. Several of those players have told me in casual conversation that they hardly ever saw KF other than in whole team meetings and some never had a single one on one interaction with him other than in passing for 30 seconds.

All that said, when it came to light what happened all 3 of those guys should've been gone. That's on no one but KF. It's a black mark, IMO and it's why I rant on here about what I'll do if Wallace becomes HC. That's not hyperbole from me, I just couldn't be a fan at that point as the father of someone who struggled in the exact same way with the exact same disorder as Kallenberger. I shudder sometimes when I think of how I'd react if what happened came out as happening to my son, because I don't know if I'd have the self-control it would take to stay out of prison.

I think you can be a good person and at the same time make huge mistakes. KF came from an era where things like that were just "hard coaching," which isn't an excuse, but it at least has to be considered because everyone of us is a product of our upbringing and environment. But KF was very, very wrong in how he handled the whole thing and I don't think winning a certain number of games wipes it away.

Fry, here is another way to look at it. I manage roughly 25 people in various capacities, and sometimes people screw up. Rare is the case that the mistake is so drastic that on the first occasion I am showing them the door. Good corporate culture is one of accountability, but also grace and opportunity to grow. If your workforce is scared that one mistake will get them fired, well, you won't have a workforce of people willing to take chances and willing to invest in the company.

Here, KF had an issue with his assistants. It was bad. KF loved Doyle. He was as close to him as anyone and Doyle was an OG. He also loved Wallace. Then there was his dopey son. But, can we not give KF the benefit of the doubt that he looked at this situation and concluded that what Doyle did was beyond repair, and he needed to show him the door, but he thought Wallace and BF could learn and grow and be better men and coaches after being shown the error of their ways? People suggest that Doyle was the scapegoat, but man, no one can really know what happened behind closed doors and what discussions were had. Maybe Doyle was not sorry, did not think he did anything wrong, and would not change, while the other two were humbled and embarrassed by their blind spots? We don't know. What we do know is that KF treated these three men differently for bad conduct, which tells me that he took a long look at the situation and decided that Wallace could change and be a long term part of the program.

I have not heard or understood that the racial and bulling culture has resurfaced since the changes were made, which would suggest that perhaps Wallace was humbled by the allegations and sincerely changed?

Either way, I thought the article was ill-timed and was long on conclusions and short on context. That is out of character for Rob, IMHO.

 

[Fryowa]

Either way, I thought the article was ill-timed and was long on conclusions and short on context. That is out of character for Rob, IMHO.

Re; the article, I think we're on the same page. I've had convos with Rob online before and I do think he's genuinely a good guy. But he's probably the polar opposite in his convictions than 80% of the people who follow the Hawks and that's going to be a big conflict either way.

My thought is he's finally free to speak his mind on how he really feels and he's doing that now with no stress about it.

Here, KF had an issue with his assistants. It was bad. KF loved Doyle. He was as close to him as anyone and Doyle was an OG. He also loved Wallace. Then there was his dopey son. But, can we not give KF the benefit of the doubt that he looked at this situation and concluded that what Doyle did was beyond repair, and he needed to show him the door, but he thought Wallace and BF could learn and grow and be better men and coaches after being shown the error of their ways?

As far as KF, I also agree that he probably thought what he did was enough...I just don't agree that it was enough. Treating an 18 year old kid that way is 100% inexcusable. Speaking for myself I would have without a 2nd thought fired any subordinate of mine for doing that once I found out that it was credible. That's just me and everyone is different. It wasn't an isolated lapse in judgement or an off-the-cuff joke...it was meant to humiliate, especially since most of it was done intentionally when others were around and it went on for a long time in multiple incidents. Posting GPA in a team room on a white board can only be interpreted in one way...ridicule in front of your peers. To be honest I don't for the life of me understand how he wasn't fired by the BOR for that single thing alone. You and I both know any professor doing that would be cleaning his or her desk out before lunch if that happened. I cannot reconcile what Wallace did with anything other than abuse and we'll just have to disagree. Which is ok.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

Fry, here is another way to look at it. I manage roughly 25 people in various capacities, and sometimes people screw up. Rare is the case that the mistake is so drastic that on the first occasion I am showing them the door. Good corporate culture is one of accountability, but also grace and opportunity to grow. If your workforce is scared that one mistake will get them fired, well, you won't have a workforce of people willing to take chances and willing to invest in the company.

Here, KF had an issue with his assistants. It was bad. KF loved Doyle. He was as close to him as anyone and Doyle was an OG. He also loved Wallace. Then there was his dopey son. But, can we not give KF the benefit of the doubt that he looked at this situation and concluded that what Doyle did was beyond repair, and he needed to show him the door, but he thought Wallace and BF could learn and grow and be better men and coaches after being shown the error of their ways? People suggest that Doyle was the scapegoat, but man, no one can really know what happened behind closed doors and what discussions were had. Maybe Doyle was not sorry, did not think he did anything wrong, and would not change, while the other two were humbled and embarrassed by their blind spots? We don't know. What we do know is that KF treated these three men differently for bad conduct, which tells me that he took a long look at the situation and decided that Wallace could change and be a long term part of the program.

I have not heard or understood that the racial and bulling culture has resurfaced since the changes were made, which would suggest that perhaps Wallace was humbled by the allegations and sincerely changed?

Either way, I thought the article was ill-timed and was long on conclusions and short on context. That is out of character for Rob, IMHO.

I think you could make the argument that the first chance was after the 2018 internal report. In my opinion, Barta and Kirk did not take it very seriously, and played at the edges rather than taking accountability. They didn't want to see a problem because they didn't think there was a problem. Some of the feedback in that report was from assistant coaches and staffers. It wasn't a few disgruntled players.

I'm not suggesting Kirk should have been fired in 2020, but it was problematic that his power wasn't checked in a couple instances prior to that. It led to a bad situation. I'm glad he's grown and addressed it.

This is old, but it's interesting to go back and read what Dochterman wrote on it at the time (excerpt and full link below):

From ignorant and inconsiderate rhetoric to outright bullying and beratement, Iowa’s power structure enabled a double standard that festered into distrust, anxiety and fear. It was demanding for white players and staffers; it was demeaning for Black players, assistant coaches and staffers. The release of a 28-page Husch Blackwell external review on the culture of Iowa’s football program confirmed all of those complaints and more.

(and later)...

By itself, the report is damning of an entire culture, one where success is determined partly by conformity. White players seemingly had a massive head start against their Black teammates. Black players described different disciplinary measures and rules enforcement than their white teammates and were subjected to constant ridicule for attire, slang and hairstyle. It’s that culture that led to only three Black players walking to midfield on Senior Day in 2017 and 40 early exits between 2012 and 2018.

Dochterman: Iowa football power structure enabled culture of racial bias

In its review, the Husch Blackwell law firm determined that the Iowa football program rules 'perpetuated racial or cultural biases.'

www.nytimes.com

 

[NCHawker]

I feel I need to write a long post about this subject.

I also think I'm guilty of judging Rob's motives. Dad taught me to avoid doing that when I was a kid.

But Rob's article reeks of contempt and resentment. The picture says a lot - its worth 1000 words

 

[Fryowa]

The picture says a lot - its worth 1000 words

I thought the same thing. It was intentionally drawn like that.

I also look at it as an editorial piece rather than a news article. Rob has a right to publish it and I can form my own opinion from it, so I'm not offended or upset in the least.

That's where things turn sideways with rage and mudslinging. If you see it for what it is which is opinion, then I think it's easier just to say, "Meh, agree to disagree." It's why I've never had facebook and never will. People can't help themselves from getting enraged over someone's opinion when it has zero effect on their day. Then they can't help themselves from screaming at people who probably don't care.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

I thought the same thing. It was intentionally drawn like that.

I also look at it as an editorial piece rather than a news article. Rob has a right to publish it and I can form my own opinion from it, so I'm not offended or upset in the least.

That's where things turn sideways with rage and mudslinging. If you see it for what it is which is opinion, then I think it's easier just to say, "Meh, agree to disagree." It's why I've never had facebook and never will. People can't help themselves from getting enraged over someone's opinion when it has zero effect on their day. Then they can't help themselves from screaming at people who probably don't care.

Yep, agreed, editorial piece. And I almost took it as more of a note, like hey, don't also forget about these important chapters that caused a lot of pain for a lot of people when evaluating Kirk's tenure.

But it felt incomplete to me. Like if you want to remind folks of those stains on his career, I think it'd be helpful to write a longer piece that provides context. The situation is complex with many layers.

 

[Fryowa]

Yep, agreed, editorial piece. And I almost took it as more of a note, like hey, don't also forget about these important chapters that caused a lot of pain for a lot of people when evaluating Kirk's tenure.

But it felt incomplete to me. Like if you want to remind folks of those stains on his career, I think it'd be helpful to write a longer piece that provides context. The situation is complex with many layers.

True. There are a lot of people of different races who've said KF had a big positive impact on their lives. I've heard it from lots of black players too. Good doesn't cancel out bad and vice versa, but you have to look at both I think.