Should B1G go to 10 conference game schedule?

[SpecialKHawk]

ESPN exaggerates how bad the Big Ten is, but this conference isn't strong. And getting out to play teams that are more respected in the polls looks better for us. Because until the B1G starts getting out and beating the better Big 12, Pac-12 and SEC teams, the broken record is going to keep on spinning. And that holds back recruiting for most of the conference, too. For a recruiting visit, I'd much rather bring kids in to see Iowa beat Okie State/UCLA/Clemson than have them watch a snoozer like Ball State or Western Michigan (or replacing those crap games with Indiana, Maryland, or Rutgers). At least the ISU game creates a great stadium atmosphere, even if the game itself isn't great.

Now these are some decent points I can agree on except ISU. Are we ever going to beat the propaganda machine that is ESPN? Really? I would also argue that the population demographics shift as well as academic integrity goals of the leagues play as much a role in recruiting/success as the propaganda. Again these are not changing anytime soon.

Why not enjoy a 10 game B1G schedule over 8-9 with ISU? There is no way you will convince me that a game with OSU, UM, PSU or MSU is less energized than one with ISU. I can recall huge electricity in the stadium for these B1G match ups and my skin vibrating from the buzz. That is what the 10 game schedule brings. I will also argue that a unbeaten OSU, UM and maybe PSU gets into the playoff every time due to name brand. Do not fool yourself if you think that will not play a part in selections as well.

I am also not convinced that the playoff can stay at 4 very long. There is going to be a ton of backlash on which power conference (and Notre Dame) or conferences do not get in. ESPN will have you believe they can make it without the B1G footprint which now extends all the way to the East Coast but I am not buying it. If the playoff is SEC, ACC, Big 12 (non Texas) and PAC 12 (Oregon) for arguments sake that leaves a chunk of the major populations and fan bases out. What happens if it is 2 SEC!

This playoff will be at 8 real soon and when that happens there will be no more need for cross over power conference match ups because the winners of the power 4 or 5 will all get a bid leaving 3 or 4 at large spots for the next best. 8 is actually ideal long term.

So do what is best for the regular season and go to 10 games. Forgot the irrelevant ISU game.

 

[CAARHawk]

Basically, for me, the only legit football conferences are the Pac and B1G. The rest are semi-pro leagues where the term "student" is a freaking joke.

The worst decision ever made was for these two conferences to sell their souls to get into bed with the SEC, etc.

I just see no way to reverse the trend of phony student-athletes without blowing the whole system up.

Start over from good old days of PAC and B1G and build something from there.

 

[Seth53]

If Iowa's ultimate goal is the playoff, which it should be, then no, 10 conf games won't help as much as 9 conf games with a tough OOC game.

And the caveat to that statement is it depends on who IC we play.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

Without having read the entire thread, the biggest issue I see with a 10-game conference schedule would be the lack of non-conference road games. In today's college football environment, major conference schools see 7 home games per year as a non-negotiable. Moving to 10 conference games means that 5 of them would be on the road, which in turn means that both non-conference games would be home games. I just can't see the conference moving to a system in which the teams play very few (if any) non-conference road games.

Actually happens more than you think. OSU has had multiple seasons with 4 non con home games. This gives them 8 home games. If our home games are worth 3-4 million or more what do you think there games are worth and to get an extra one! I believe PSU has done this a few times as well. I am sure others have as well that draw fans. There is no reason we could not do this as well if we wanted to except the ISU game rotation. Not saying we want to but doing this would also 'keep the money in the state' which is the other media driven argument for this game (who are ISU alum or supporters).

I suspect the 13th game push with 10 conference games will be made by these schools to be able to do the extra home game if they want it.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

Basically, for me, the only legit football conferences are the Pac and B1G. The rest are semi-pro leagues where the term "student" is a freaking joke.

The worst decision ever made was for these two conferences to sell their souls to get into bed with the SEC, etc.

I just see no way to reverse the trend of phony student-athletes without blowing the whole system up.

Start over from good old days of PAC and B1G and build something from there.

Agree!

I am super surprised the PAC & B1G have not decided to do something like this and squeeze the other frauds out. The footprint alone would be massive combining forces in some kind of relationship. Then set the real terms for others to join in.

 

[H8IAST8]

Actually happens more than you think. OSU has had multiple seasons with 4 non con home games. This gives them 8 home games. If our home games are worth 3-4 million or more what do you think there games are worth and to get an extra one! I believe PSU has done this a few times as well. I am sure others have as well that draw fans. There is no reason we could not do this as well if we wanted to except the ISU game rotation. Not saying we want to but doing this would also 'keep the money in the state' which is the other media driven argument for this game (who are ISU alum or supporters).

I suspect the 13th game push with 10 conference games will be made by these schools to be able to do the extra home game if they want it.

This is precisely what will happen. Iowa will keep ISU and MSU will keep Notre Dame, etc.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

Still pushing for 10 conference games but this thread has had several interesting side bars as well.

One issue raised is conference SOS between the power 5. When I have looked at it this in the past the by looking at the actual match ups and results the sample size has been pretty darn small and inconsistent in terms of match ups to draw a good conclusion. I am really surprised you can come up with rankings of 1-5 based on limited games between a limited number of participants with one participant on the road no less.

In football I do not believe it is possible to get the depth of games to really draw huge conclusions. Therefore SOS is usually flawed to begin with. Does not the first premise of SOS start with who is perceived to be the best conference? In this case it is always the SEC so everything works off of this assumption.

Let's use a hypothetical example between B1G and Big 12. Let's say OSU beats Baylor but Oklahoma beats MSU. Then Purdue losses to West Virginia and we beat ISU. Which conference is better? What if OSU & MSU beat Baylor & Oklahoma but we lose the other 2 of these match ups? Now who is better? What if they upper echelon games were close but the other 2 were blow outs? Now flip the scenario around? What if you lose all 4 of those by 1 point 3 of which were on the road? My point is this SOS stuff is really difficult to draw hard conclusions even when the match ups line up somewhat. Some of this will decide the playoff participants no less!

The SEC has been leveraging their perceived strength recently saying that their conference is so good that we beat each other up and that any loss should not drop us much in the polls. We saw this happen and they benefited big time often getting 4-5 teams in the top 10. This also allowed them to always get a team into the BCS title game and made it difficult to pick the correct #2 from the other 4 leagues plus Notre Dame.

I find the conference SOS especially in football humorous. I also think the playoff will be interesting especially when we get to 8 teams and you have to win 3 match ups.

SOS to me is ESPN talking about the SEC and whomever else they want to prop up.

 

[deanvogs]

Looking at last year's final rankings, the B1G and Big 12 both had three teams in the final BCS standings, and both conference's average ranking was 10. But looking at the coaches' poll, 6 Big 12 teams at least received votes, while only four B1G teams did so. The Pac-12 6 teams in the final AP top 25 and 5 in the coaches (Washington was 25th and 26th in the two polls).

Whether you believe those schools are better or not, they get pumped up, and recruits see that. You can't change the culture if you don't even bother to fight it.

The bottom half of the Big12 last year was complete and total garbage. The bottom 5 teams in the conference went 1-24 against the top half. Think about that for a second. That is an awful, awful, awful bottom half of the conference. Plus it isn't like the top 5 were world beaters. Sure Oklahoma and Baylor were good. Texas, K-State, and Okie St. were ok, but beatable. The garbage that is the bottom half of the Big12 managed 1 win against them. It is actually good for teams like Oklahoma and Baylor to play so many conference games, they are assured 5 cupcake wins, and then have 4 decent teams to play. Baylor outscored those 5 cupcakes 307-135

I'm not saying that the B1G is all that good, but you are wayyyyyyy over valuing the Big12.

 

[deanvogs]

I would love to see the Power5 to break away from the NCAA, and require 10 conference games of each team to be eligible for the playoff. After that let the teams do what they want, but the selection committee can only look at other P5 teams played. IE if you play someone that isn't a power5 conference team, it doesn't count as a win. This would all but eliminate these cupcake games.

 

[bitmap]

... In football I do not believe it is possible to get the depth of games to really draw huge conclusions. Therefore SOS is usually flawed to begin with. Does not the first premise of SOS start with who is perceived to be the best conference? In this case it is always the SEC so everything works off of this assumption. ... SOS to me is ESPN talking about the SEC and whomever else they want to prop up.

Precisely why a true playoff system should be the goal. Conference champ against conference champ. Football needs to be decided on the field period. Not totally possible yet but until there are eight 16 team conferences we could do better than the mess we have now.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

Precisely why a true playoff system should be the goal. Conference champ against conference champ. Football needs to be decided on the field period. Not totally possible yet but until there are eight 16 team conferences we could do better than the mess we have now.

Amen brother and I think we will see this in the next 5-10 years even though I wish it would come sooner.

 

[ShadasRevenge]

The bottom half of the Big12 last year was complete and total garbage. The bottom 5 teams in the conference went 1-24 against the top half. Think about that for a second. That is an awful, awful, awful bottom half of the conference. Plus it isn't like the top 5 were world beaters. Sure Oklahoma and Baylor were good. Texas, K-State, and Okie St. were ok, but beatable. The garbage that is the bottom half of the Big12 managed 1 win against them. It is actually good for teams like Oklahoma and Baylor to play so many conference games, they are assured 5 cupcake wins, and then have 4 decent teams to play. Baylor outscored those 5 cupcakes 307-135

I'm not saying that the B1G is all that good, but you are wayyyyyyy over valuing the Big12.

Do you mean 1-44? 5 teams x 9 games each = 45.

 

[deanvogs]

Do you mean 1-44? 5 teams x 9 games each = 45.

No. I mean 1-24. By definition the top 5 in the league is 5 teams. So ISU played Oklahoma, Baylor, K-State, Texas and Okie St.

Now do that 4 more times (for WVU, Kansas, TCU, and Texas Tech), and you get the bottom 5 playing the top 5 25 games. The bottom 5 went 1-24 against them. ISU was outscored 249 to 81 by those 5 teams.

 

[AreWeThereYet]

No I don’t think going to ten conference games would automatically work out.


What is good for the goose isn’t necessarily good for the gander. The biggest problem with going to 10 conference games is it takes a lot of flexibility in opponent choice and scheduling away. Teams at the top of the league have a different set of priorities than those at the middle and bottom.

Elite teams need the marquee OOC games to get an idea of where they are in the national pecking order. If you are likely to be ranked in the top 15, winning a major marquee game can get you a major lift in the polls. The benefit of OOC marquee games drops off pretty fast after the top two teams in the conference. The pecking order of the rest of the bowls is going to be largely decided by conference games.

It the other end of things are the bottom feeders and teams having problems. They often benefit from a weak OOC schedule. Teams like Purdue and Illinois can benefit from the FCS tune-up games. They should at least have the option. Having too many heavies in the schedule can be something of a trap for lesser programs.


I would argue that the teams that might benefit the most from 10 conference games would be in the middle of the pack vying for bowl spots. The extra game will usually make for a little more separation between teams. So why not play the game as an OOC game. It might also make a team a little more attractive for a bowl appearance among closely matched teams. I could see an added Minnesota vs. Indiana game making a difference. I’d rather schedule an extra Iowa vs. Rutgers home-at-home series over playing Pitt or Syracuse. Want a tougher schedule, add a game against Michigan or Michigan State onto Iowa's OOC schedule.


There are a lot of reasons you might want to keep a good deal of flexibility in scheduling.

 

[guffus]

Bring it on!

10 conference games, 5 home, 5 away
1 game each year against ISU.
1 game each year against another P5 conference team.

End result. 6 home, 6 away.

Make it happen!

 

[tm3308]

Still pushing for 10 conference games but this thread has had several interesting side bars as well.

One issue raised is conference SOS between the power 5. When I have looked at it this in the past the by looking at the actual match ups and results the sample size has been pretty darn small and inconsistent in terms of match ups to draw a good conclusion. I am really surprised you can come up with rankings of 1-5 based on limited games between a limited number of participants with one participant on the road no less.

In football I do not believe it is possible to get the depth of games to really draw huge conclusions. Therefore SOS is usually flawed to begin with. Does not the first premise of SOS start with who is perceived to be the best conference? In this case it is always the SEC so everything works off of this assumption.

Let's use a hypothetical example between B1G and Big 12. Let's say OSU beats Baylor but Oklahoma beats MSU. Then Purdue losses to West Virginia and we beat ISU. Which conference is better? What if OSU & MSU beat Baylor & Oklahoma but we lose the other 2 of these match ups? Now who is better? What if they upper echelon games were close but the other 2 were blow outs? Now flip the scenario around? What if you lose all 4 of those by 1 point 3 of which were on the road? My point is this SOS stuff is really difficult to draw hard conclusions even when the match ups line up somewhat. Some of this will decide the playoff participants no less!

The SEC has been leveraging their perceived strength recently saying that their conference is so good that we beat each other up and that any loss should not drop us much in the polls. We saw this happen and they benefited big time often getting 4-5 teams in the top 10. This also allowed them to always get a team into the BCS title game and made it difficult to pick the correct #2 from the other 4 leagues plus Notre Dame.

I find the conference SOS especially in football humorous. I also think the playoff will be interesting especially when we get to 8 teams and you have to win 3 match ups.

SOS to me is ESPN talking about the SEC and whomever else they want to prop up.

You can believe whatever you want, but perception is reality in college football. If the media believes the Big Ten to be terrible, then the conference faces an uphill battle in earning respect from the media, which it's going to need in order to place teams into the playoff. And playing each other for 10 games and then scheduling body bag home games for the other two isn't going to convince anyone who matters that the conference is getting better. That's just a fact; it's one that won't escape the teams in the conference who feel they can contend for a playoff bid, and they will make sure that they are given the best opportunity to do so.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

You can believe whatever you want, but perception is reality in college football. If the media believes the Big Ten to be terrible, then the conference faces an uphill battle in earning respect from the media, which it's going to need in order to place teams into the playoff. And playing each other for 10 games and then scheduling body bag home games for the other two isn't going to convince anyone who matters that the conference is getting better. That's just a fact; it's one that won't escape the teams in the conference who feel they can contend for a playoff bid, and they will make sure that they are given the best opportunity to do so.

Glad to know that the media will be heavily involved in selecting the teams. Never mind the members of the selection committee with their own criteria.

You can argue all you want but an undefeated Ohio State even playing a 10 game B1G schedule is getting in. The same is probably true for Michigan and with a maybe on Penn St. when they become eligible again.

 

[tm3308]

Glad to know that the media will be heavily involved in selecting the teams. Never mind the members of the selection committee with their own criteria.

You can argue all you want but an undefeated Ohio State even playing a 10 game B1G schedule is getting in. The same is probably true for Michigan and with a maybe on Penn St. when they become eligible again.

Among which being SOS, which you have a very low opinion of. I won't be shocked at all to see an undefeated or 1-loss B1G team fail to get in this year. The SEC will likely get two, the Pac-12 champ is a virtual lock, and then there's still the Big 12 and FSU to contend with. There's likely only going to be one spot available to three conferences (Big 12, B1G and ACC). If the B1G limits itself to playing only each other, they're going to come out on the short end more often than they'd like.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

Among which being SOS, which you have a very low opinion of. I won't be shocked at all to see an undefeated or 1-loss B1G team fail to get in this year. The SEC will likely get two, the Pac-12 champ is a virtual lock, and then there's still the Big 12 and FSU to contend with. There's likely only going to be one spot available to three conferences (Big 12, B1G and ACC). If the B1G limits itself to playing only each other, they're going to come out on the short end more often than they'd like.

An undefeated Ohio State will not be left out. How on earth is the PAC-12 a virtual lock? The SEC is the lock and most likely to get 2 if any conference does. Every other conference plus Notre Dame is battling for the remaining 2-3 spots. I see no clear cut advantage for one league over another after the SEC.

The selection committee will make the selections using SOS as a factor but also other factors and does not have to rely on one piece of data. The committee is comprised of interests from across the spectrum including Osbourne and Alvarez. Each member is responsible for compiling a list of 25 teams including a list of the top 6 using whatever means. There is a process for compiling the final list from each member list. You know all of this.

No matter how objective the process there is little chance this stays at 4 very long. There will be too many teams with a resume that did not get in representing power 5 conferences.

I do have a low opinion of SOS in football due to the sample size and lack of match ups. It is not reliable. Take one team from the B1G and ask yourself how they would fair against an equally ranked opponent from the other 4 power conferences? Is it even possible to schedule this? How many games will any power conference cross over to play during the regular season? Maybe 2 tops? This is what SOS is built upon.

 

[STILLBUSTER]

Such great posts, chock full of sensible insights & rationales! Of course, its nothing morethan.shouting in the wind, much like the "Kinnick experience" threads.

GarBar knows best. Your gripes are futile. You will all be good little lemming Hawks & fork over your "donations" for the "privalege" of getting on the smile cam during the La-Lafayette game. You got to pump it up, people.