Seriously Fans

[ShadasRevenge]

And Ped State, Northwestern, Nebraska and Purdue are equally terrible. What does that have to do with anything?

It means that the bottom 1/2 or 1/3 or both conferences are equally as bad. The argument for conference strength is that the teams at the top of the table in the B1G are light years ahead of the teams at the top of the table in the B12.

Kansas, K-State, Ok. State, and Iowa State don't really match up favorably with Indiana, Michigan, MSU, and Wisconsin. You could make an argument for Kansas, but that's it out of those 4.

 

[sportstalent]

Why are we talking about ISU and Iowa's conference...it doesn't matter. There are some bad teams in the Big Ten and Iowa blew a 19 point lead against one of them...stop comparing them outside of the one time Iowa played them and won.

 

[Tskinner]

It means that the bottom 1/2 or 1/3 or both conferences are equally as bad. The argument for conference strength is that the teams at the top of the table in the B1G are light years ahead of the teams at the top of the table in the B12.

Kansas, K-State, Ok. State, and Iowa State don't really match up favorably with Indiana, Michigan, MSU, and Wisconsin. You could make an argument for Kansas, but that's it out of those 4.

I agree 100% but when you consider Iowa only plays 3 of the top teams once it makes the point moot and proves nothing except that the people using the difference in conference strength as an excuse are clueless.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Lol @ the guy saying expectations were too high. Then says we can still beat Indiana and Illinois.

I was thinking the exact same thing! Too funny.

Expectations were NOT too high for this year's team.. To simply make the NCAA tournament in year 3 of Fran's tenure, that is a perfectly realistic goal. Or to be able to hold on and beat Nebraska after leading by 19.. Also a realistic expectation.

I'm sick of hearing about all of this crap about unrealistic expectations.. I guess if we keep expectations low enough, we will always be happy. I think it's high time this fan base starts expecting more out of Iowa sports, both football AND basketball.

 

[DuffMan]

Why are we in a position where we are so young?

I love the people that make the excuse "We're young". At year 3 the recruiting should be spaced out to where you aren't starting so many freshman. There is a team to the west where a coach took over an equally devastated program 3 years ago. That team has evenly spaced classes and will likely be in their second big dance in 3 years.

Being "young" like "rebuilding years" shouldn't be an excuse.

You clearly don't understand how things work.

 

[DuffMan]

I was thinking the exact same thing! Too funny.

Expectations were NOT too high for this year's team.. To simply make the NCAA tournament in year 3 of Fran's tenure, that is a perfectly realistic goal. Or to be able to hold on and beat Nebraska after leading by 19.. Also a realistic expectation.

I'm sick of hearing about all of this crap about unrealistic expectations.. I guess if we keep expectations low enough, we will always be happy. I think it's high time this fan base starts expecting more out of Iowa sports, both football AND basketball.

If you really believe Iowa should have been dancing in year 3 the you are really clueless on what it takes to rebuild a basketball program using 4 year players.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

If you really believe Iowa should have been dancing in year 3 the you are really clueless on what it takes to rebuild a basketball program using 4 year players.

Bobby Knight took a terrible Texas Tech to the NCAA Tournament in year ONE. But Iowa can't go in year 3? But I suppose that's "different", right?

Whatever.

 

[Seth53]

Good Gawd. I mean really.

We're good enough, talent wise, to be in the NCAA's this year.

We didn't execute well enough to win those games.

These teams we lost to didn't "beat us" IMO, we lost those games. Big difference.

To accept the losses, and "where we are" for any other reason is simply being apologetic and rationalizing.

 

[Seth53]

One more example (yes I'm old school)

I was a student @ Iowa in 79 when Fry was hired. 20 years of losing. 20 years of being a laughing stock. 20 years of being a FB graveyard. Nobody on campus was old enough to remember when Iowa last went to a bowl game much less won the league. The FB program was in far worse shape than the BB program was when FM took over.


First year, 5-6
2nd year, 4-7
3rd year, Rose Bowl

On the eve of playing MSU, do you think the atmosphere on campus was, "Well, if we lose tomorrow and blow a chance for the Rose Bowl, it's OK because we're only in the 3rd year of a rebuilding program?" (Or any other excuses?)

Are you out of your minds? That 81 team was ready then and there to seize the day and obtain greatness. There was no acceptance baloney. You think Hayden Fry or those players would have accepted the defeat as "part of the building scheme and it would be OK?" Again, are you out of your minds?

All that mattered was the moment. Any looking back or whatever would have simply been rationalizing.

 

[HomerChampless]

Is ISU better than Iowa? I don't care. I care about Iowa.

Yes, Iowa is playing a lot of freshman. It seems, Iowa has a freshman acting head coach as well.
Woody played a total of 8 minutes. Gabe played a total of 9 minutes (both off the top of my head from the paper). Nebby has some height. Iowa couldn't deal with Nebby's height in the second half when McCabe and Basabe exclusively played center. Woody and Gabe played, I think, all but 5 minutes of the first half at center.

Nebby seemed to adjust to the 2-1-2 full court press that plagued them in the first half.
Did Fran adjust to that adjustment?

Then of course, Fran had Gesell guard against Talley's winning shot. Talley is listed as a 6'5" guard and Gesell is maybe 6'0"? Remind you of the Minnesota game in Minneapolis? For crying out loud, put some defender like May, Sappy (I get the nickname now, he looks like Warren Sapp of Football Hall of Fame), or Marble who has more length to pester the shot. Of course, Fran puts Woody in the last few seconds of the game, after Nebby has taken the lead...

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Good Gawd. I mean really.

We're good enough, talent wise, to be in the NCAA's this year.

We didn't execute well enough to win those games.

These teams we lost to didn't "beat us" IMO, we lost those games. Big difference.

To accept the losses, and "where we are" for any other reason is simply being apologetic and rationalizing.

This times a million to both of your posts, Seth. Well said.

I was not DEMANDING that Iowa make the NCAA Tournament in year 3, but as you say, Iowa had the talent to make it this year. But it coughed up so many games.. It was a legit possibility that Iowa get into the NCAA's this year.

Sure, year 1, or even year 2 of Fran's tenure, given what he inherited, I think it should be taken into account. But I get tired of the rationalization and the excuses. I mean good grief, it was Alford's final year at Iowa (year 8), and I seriously saw people talking about "Baby Steps" and being patient, and the "We are Iowa, not Duke" comments. I think Fran could be here 20 years, and you would still here the same old stuff.

 

[Seth53]

I find most Iowa posters on here quickly gravitate between to bipolar extremes:

(When we're winning/or perhaps over-achieving (whatever that means))
"Hell ya! We're Iowa. We own you. We have pedigree. Stick that in your eye. Huff and puff."---lots of bravado.


(When we underachieve or lose games we shouldn't)
"No biggie...still rebuilding. We're only Iowa. Be happy with what you have. It'll be better next year"--lots of justifying/rationalizing/apologizing

Not much inbetween ground if you ask me.

 

[seepig]

And Ped State, Northwestern, Nebraska and Purdue are equally terrible. What does that have to do with anything?

State Penn, Northwestern and Purdue are easily better than Texas Tech and TCU. Texas is about the same and WVU might be as good as Purdue that's my only point and while the dolt about was saying Iowa ONLY played the best teams 1 time my point was that ISU gets 8! potential gimmes that makes your conference record look a TON better.

 

[BryceC]

The bottom four of both conferences are god awful. The difference is that if Iowa State played an unbalanced schedule like Iowa, they would essentially be playing ku, ksu, ou, and osu only once. The difference in conf SOS will be negligible.

The bottom four of both conferences are bad enough either team should expect to win. Doesn't always happen but arguing the merits of Texas vs Purdue seems a little pointless to me.

 

[DuffMan]

Bobby Knight took a terrible Texas Tech to the NCAA Tournament in year ONE. But Iowa can't go in year 3? But I suppose that's "different", right?

Whatever.

I mean you just have no clue what kind of shape Iowa was in. 20 loss season, no facilities, mass transfers ofer the previous regime. The on court product has noticeably improved each and every year and each recruiting class has been better than the last. Anyone honestly upset about the progress and state of the Iowa basketball program is just ******* nuts.

 

[LGEND24]

Lol @ the guy saying expectations were too high. Then says we can still beat Indiana and Illinois.

He said that we could...not that we will.

 

[sportstalent]

Why are we in a position where we are so young?

I love the people that make the excuse "We're young". At year 3 the recruiting should be spaced out to where you aren't starting so many freshman. There is a team to the west where a coach took over an equally devastated program 3 years ago. That team has evenly spaced classes and will likely be in their second big dance in 3 years.

Being "young" like "rebuilding years" shouldn't be an excuse.

Being young is not an excuse, it is a crutch for fans to use, just a sorry excuse.

Now, to your point of what Hoiberg is doing, he sacrificed early freshman recruiting to try and win quickly to help him sell his program.
I don't think you can judge short term success of a program when choosing to build a program in this fashion. Fred has done a good job recruiting freshman the last couple of years and now the question comes in will he be able to develop talent, unless he chooses to continue to bring in transfers from all avenues.

The way Fran is building Iowa, it appears he is and always has been thinking long term. I think he really has only missed out on one kid since coming to Iowa, but if he would have gotten the Armstead kid at WSU, would he have gotten Clemmons and Gesell, or neither of them?

Another guy I do like that Iowa didn't get is David Kravish at Cal, now he would be a very good player at Iowa, but would Iowa have gotten White, who is a better player at this stage?

No matter how you look and compare how coaches choose to build their program, it comes with a cost. Look at how long it took Cincy to rebuild after Huggins left and they quit bringing in JUCO's and other transfers. It is a process and Fran has the ship righted and headed in the right direction. There are still some missing pieces, but the way he has chosen to build Iowa, it will be year 5 before all those pieces are there, that is just the reality of the situation. Iowa lost more players than anyone in the three years Lickliter was at Iowa, it is not a wonder Fran has chosen to build from the ground up and not look for short cuts, I don't think it would have made a difference either way as there were so many holes to begin with.

 

[sportstalent]

I mean you just have no clue what kind of shape Iowa was in. 20 loss season, no facilities, mass transfers ofer the previous regime. The on court product has noticeably improved each and every year and each recruiting class has been better than the last. Anyone honestly upset about the progress and state of the Iowa basketball program is just ******* nuts.

Texas Tech made the NCAA tournament the year before Bob Knight got there, a lot of people were not happy that Dickey was fired.

Iowa was the worst job in the Power Six conferences when Fran came to Iowa. Anyone who thinks it wasn't is delusional.

 

[hawkforlife9]

Really

 

[CHShawk]

Bobby Knight took a terrible Texas Tech to the NCAA Tournament in year ONE. But Iowa can't go in year 3? But I suppose that's "different", right?

Whatever.

It actually is very different. Bob Knight was the coach of three national championships and 11 Big Ten titles at Indiana. Easy to get studs on campus with a resume like that combined with a team that went to the NCAAs the year before.