trj
Well-Known Member
and to speculate on things we don't have all the facts on. That by definition is a rush to judgment.
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Rush to judgement
- Thread starter tm3308
- Start date
and to speculate on things we don't have all the facts on. That by definition is a rush to judgment.
jacknicholson
Well-Known Member
Good post, BigD, I was enthusiastic about Anthony coming to Iowa, and thought it was admirable of Fran to give him a chance to become a Hawkeye playing in the Big Ten on a national stage and getting a quality education in an excellent environment, but it didn't work out for whatever reason. We might never know the reason, and that is alright with me. It isn't necessary to add any more baggage to Hubbard. Hope he makes it in life, but not at Nebraska. That would be adding insult to injury, just would leave an unsavory taste. The timing of the event would suggest a problem with Summer School, which would be really unfortunate considering the tutors available.
I also don't believe Losing Hubbard is the end of the World. This should provide even more incentive to the team to excel this year. He certainly would have been a valuable addition to the team, but in reality, he was somewhat raw to be playing in the Big Ten, not that proficient a shooter unless close to the basket. He would have helped at point but Devyn would be as good if not better than him at that, especially with the experience gained last year. We will be OK without him.
Woodbury and Gesell must become Hawkeyes to accelerate the turnaround Fran has started quite nicely. Fran will find a quality point guard. I wonder just how good Murphy is? He certainly gets a lot of attention, and might be able to spell Bryce for a few minutes. Might not hurt to let him walk on. Onward and upward for the Hawks.
I also don't believe Losing Hubbard is the end of the World. This should provide even more incentive to the team to excel this year. He certainly would have been a valuable addition to the team, but in reality, he was somewhat raw to be playing in the Big Ten, not that proficient a shooter unless close to the basket. He would have helped at point but Devyn would be as good if not better than him at that, especially with the experience gained last year. We will be OK without him.
Woodbury and Gesell must become Hawkeyes to accelerate the turnaround Fran has started quite nicely. Fran will find a quality point guard. I wonder just how good Murphy is? He certainly gets a lot of attention, and might be able to spell Bryce for a few minutes. Might not hurt to let him walk on. Onward and upward for the Hawks.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
But again, we have no idea what happened. Like I said, if it's grades, that can happen to anybody, and I'm not sure there are a whole lot of JUCO's out there that we would hold on to if they were going to be ineligible to start the season, regardless of their past.
BlckNGldHwk
Well-Known Member
What we know based on his past...
1. Makes poor decisions
2. Does not abide by the rules
3. Does not consider the consequences of his actions
If he decided to just leave then we can point to 1 and 3 as red flags.
If he failed a class we can point to all three as red flags.
If he was arrested/ticketed, we can point to all three.
If he failed a drug test, we can point to all three.
If he didn't feel team chemistry then we can look at 1 and 3.
I guess the question is, what scenario can be presented that we can't point to at least one of these flags?
1. Makes poor decisions
2. Does not abide by the rules
3. Does not consider the consequences of his actions
If he decided to just leave then we can point to 1 and 3 as red flags.
If he failed a class we can point to all three as red flags.
If he was arrested/ticketed, we can point to all three.
If he failed a drug test, we can point to all three.
If he didn't feel team chemistry then we can look at 1 and 3.
I guess the question is, what scenario can be presented that we can't point to at least one of these flags?
BigD
Well-Known Member
Good points with the exception of grades. Even a average student in high school can find it very very difficult to make it through college academically. Some unfortunately struggle terribly even though they study religiously they just have a terrible time grasping education and it's not because of a lack of effort. Yes it's true that there are irresponsible people whose parents put up the money for them to go to college and they go their freshmen year and do nothing but party and flunk out. I've spoken to some of these same people who now are older and look back on their past with regret and the opportunity they squandered. The three you list would apply if he did the latter and partied and failed courses. If however he tried his best and even got tutored and still struggled then those three items would not apply. Of course all of this is total speculation as we don't know exactly why he left and why the university was so quick to let him go so easily. The grades issue would make sense as they would have no choice but to let him go and to do it in the respectful way they did it. I will be honest and say that if he did some thing reflecting bad behavior I will be as upset as anyone. Just think about this however, if it was grades and he honestly tried his best and failed.......how bad must he feel at this point and then some among the fan base come along and douse him with gasoline and light him up, I wonder what that would feel like?
What is done is done, now let's look forward to and hopefully get some good recruiting news.......... Hopefully sooner than later.
What is done is done, now let's look forward to and hopefully get some good recruiting news.......... Hopefully sooner than later.
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tm3308
Well-Known Member
So every student who ever fails a class is some kind of self-centered person with a criminal record? Students fail classes every day, and most of them don't have anything beyond public intox/PAULA on their record. I nearly failed a class, and it was because I was simply in over my head. It had nothing to do with poor choices, rule-breaking, or failure to consider consequences.
And how can the lack of chemistry be his fault? They didn't click because he makes poor choices? Recruits don't typically get to spend much time around the team until they've signed. And again, it's not uncommon for there to be a lack of chemistry, and there aren't exactly a lot of ex-cons playing college basketball, so there must be other reasons for it.
Pinning these scenarios on his past are two examples of choosing the easy target. I just don't see how you could put this on his past in these two scenarios, since plenty of people have had the same issues without the rap sheet.
And finally, what we KNOW based on his past is that he DID make poor choices, DIDN'T abide by the rules, and DIDN'T consider the consequences. That was 8 years ago. We don't know that he's the same person that he was then.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
As stated just a brief while ago, sometimes students fail, even with tutoring. It's not always for lack of effort or help. Sometimes their best simply isn't good enough. I'd prefer to accept that rather than provide "tutoring".
There are ways of keeping athletes passing classes. Plus, the guy qualified academically, so he should be able to pass a math class.
Epic academic fail if he that's what happened.
1hawkeye1
Well-Known Member
If he just isn't able to succeed academically, I would be a LOT less upset with him. But this vague statement put out about "perhaps closer to home" sounds like a cover up for something else.
If he doesn't like IC or his teammates, then I say T.S.
A lot of people went way way out on a limb to give him a chance to succeed. To just run off and leave is extremely immature. Especially for a 26 year old man.
I can't wait to find out the real reason so I can exude the proper level of anger.
If he doesn't like IC or his teammates, then I say T.S.
A lot of people went way way out on a limb to give him a chance to succeed. To just run off and leave is extremely immature. Especially for a 26 year old man.
I can't wait to find out the real reason so I can exude the proper level of anger.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Yep, completely agree. This is more on Fran, than Hubbard. It's not too early to judge this as a complete failure for Fran. I don't get how Fran could misevaluate Hubbard and how he would fit in with the team and in Iowa City so badly. As you said, you have to be 100% sure that he will be able to succeed at all facets of college life to take a risk on a guy like Hubbard. This was a huge risk with limited upside, never made sense to me in the first place.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
The fact that the guy qualified says next to nothing. The standards that typical students must meet are tougher than the requirements for a scholarship, and yet they fail classes, too.
As for the "ways of keeping athletes passing classes", I'm not sure what you mean, but I will say that I would rather have a player fail than cheat to keep him eligible.
And like CAAR said earlier, for non-trad transfers, math courses have a very high failure rate. It's not uncommon for someone to fail.
BigD
Well-Known Member
I took every math course available to man while I was in high school. I excelled in math and even aced most of my math courses in college but then I took calculus and suddenly I felt like I had a brain tumor. No matter how much time I studied I just couldn't get it. As the previous poster stated I felt like I was in over my head. Finally I swallowed my pride and asked for help and got a tutor to help me. We spent hours and hours together studying (it didn't help that she was really cute...... Concentration issues 
) in the end I barely eeked out a C- and that happened with a very math based background. My point being that even with tutors a person can still fail a course, believe me I was never so happy to get a c-
) in the end I barely eeked out a C- and that happened with a very math based background. My point being that even with tutors a person can still fail a course, believe me I was never so happy to get a c-I think we'd all be surprised at what is done academically to keep athletes eligible.
I knew an NAIA player that had teammates that had all their work virtually done for them. I'm sure it happens everywhere.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
I don't doubt that it's common practice, what you just described. But I'd prefer it if that's not what we do at Iowa. If he failed a class, and it was because he decided he DIDN'T want to cheat, well I can't say I hold that against him.
BigD
Well-Known Member
If this was a team chemistry issue don't you think Fran and staff would have asked him to hold off on a decision until he could get back in town until they could talk it over. They also would not be so quick to say goodbye and dismiss the letter of intent. That just doesn't add up. It was as though the decision was instant and agreed upon leading to two main points......grades or a rule being broke. I chose grades and hope it was not the latter.
BigD
Well-Known Member
lol, I agree if this turns out to be the true reason and yes I will be POed for the reason you stated. The least damaging of all senarios with be grades especially if the guy honestly tried his best.
HawkeyeRyno
Banned
I know Fran is working hard on recruiting trail especially with Gessell and Woody, but so far he has been working so hard on Hubbard, Gessell and Woody only to get burned that he may be missing on other high-level guys. He and his staff's recruiting efforts haven't gone unnoticed, however, his results have been very poor.
And I thought Fran had all these connections to the northeast for recruiting? Where the h*ll are they?! All I read on Twitter is Fred Hoiberg and his staff recruiting the northeast like it's Ames and offering AND getting kids (Niang) with Cincy, WV, Georgetown, AZ, Nova, Pitt, Maryland along with other high-major offers. Fran is nowhere to be seen. I guess he offered a kid from the NE with a Webber State offer...
And I thought Fran had all these connections to the northeast for recruiting? Where the h*ll are they?! All I read on Twitter is Fred Hoiberg and his staff recruiting the northeast like it's Ames and offering AND getting kids (Niang) with Cincy, WV, Georgetown, AZ, Nova, Pitt, Maryland along with other high-major offers. Fran is nowhere to be seen. I guess he offered a kid from the NE with a Webber State offer...
BigD
Well-Known Member
Well time will tell. If the trend continues into the next two recruiting years then yes we will have reason to be concerned. I'll be patient and give him a fair amount of time to see what he and his staff can do. To try to pass a judgement after one year simply would not be fair.
tweeterhawk
Well-Known Member
Well stated, and this is why I argue in another thread this is a black eye for Fran and the program.
