Rule changes mean the year of the whistle?

[LawVHawk]

Even though this does not specifically include Iowa basketball, the number of fouls called in Iowa's first exhibition game, especially against the opponent, and the discussion that has ensued here, seem to make this germane to the Iowa basketball forum and I hope Jon won't drop the banhammer for posting it here. It will not be a surprise if the NCAA, or at least the B1G and other conferences, decide on a different interpretation to these rules to aid the flow of the game, as Jon seemed to imply in his thoughts on the Iowa-Augustana game.

Coaches fear controversial new rule changes may result in the year of the whistle | Y! SPORTS

 

[1hawkeye1]

I was not aware that conferences could just decide to interpret rules differently on their own. Not saying they can't, but didn't know this was an option.

If they were to do this, however. It would be a huge mistake. Yes there will be more whistles until players adjust. But the current state of the game mandates that these changes be made. In the long run, it will clean things up and transform the game back to the fluid athletic contest it used to be instead of the quasi rugby scrum it has become.

 

[LawVHawk]

I was not aware that conferences could just decide to interpret rules differently on their own. Not saying they can't, but didn't know this was an option.

If they were to do this, however. It would be a huge mistake. Yes there will be more whistles until players adjust. But the current state of the game mandates that these changes be made. In the long run, it will clean things up and transform the game back to the fluid athletic contest it used to be instead of the quasi rugby scrum it has become.

The leagues cannot change the rules unilaterally and theoretically the approach and interpretation should be universal across NCAA-governed games. But certainly you see games called differently, especially in tournaments, when worked by officials who principally officiate in other leagues.

I think a question will be whether enough coaches voice their concerns early on that the NCAA rules committee decides in mid-stream on a new approach for the remainder of the season; ie, whether the hand-checking rule gets less attention or a new interpretation to allow more contact.

 

[jacknicholson]

I was not aware that conferences could just decide to interpret rules differently on their own. Not saying they can't, but didn't know this was an option.

If they were to do this, however. It would be a huge mistake. Yes there will be more whistles until players adjust. But the current state of the game mandates that these changes be made. In the long run, it will clean things up and transform the game back to the fluid athletic contest it used to be instead of the quasi rugby scrum it has become.

Might change the style of most Big Ten teams and many others. Hopefully it works in a positive manner and the game doesn't become a free throw battle.....

Who knows it might actually introduce the aspect of sportsmanship into the game.....

 

[ibahawkeye]

It will probably go something like this and if it does I think the rule change has accomplished what it set out to do.

Early in the year: a lot and whistles and interruptions in the flow of the game
Middle of the year: players adjust and we have a "soft" game in fear of foul trouble
End of year: Refs begin allowing slightly more contact little by litte

In the end, hopefully the game isn't quite as rough as it is today but I also don't want to see basketball go back in time. Basketball is still a contact sport and these guys are great athletes.

 

[Linesetter]

Might change the style of most Big Ten teams and many others.

I seriously doubt it. Besides it's the same rule for every team in the conference.

I think you'll see some outcries from coaches at the beginning of the year but the good coaches will adjust as will their players. I still can't believe people think a guy as smart as Aaron Craft isn't going to figure things out. Same with MSU. I guarantee if they aren't successful by years end it won't be because of the rule changes, it'd be because they miss Nix or they have injuries.

Nor will MSU's "style" of play change. They'll still be a nightmare on the boards and they'll still be good defenders.

 

[1hawkeye1]

Might change the style of most Big Ten teams and many others. Hopefully it works in a positive manner and the game doesn't become a free throw battle.....

Who knows it might actually introduce the aspect of sportsmanship into the game.....

there's gonna be some games won/lost at the line, like there always is. There's also gonna be some games where key players foul out. More so than now. Can't wait to see Bo Ryan do his weasel face when he finds his style of play is no longer legal.

 

[tjhawk08]

there's gonna be some games won/lost at the line, like there always is. There's also gonna be some games where key players foul out. More so than now. Can't wait to see Bo Ryan do his weasel face when he finds his style of play is no longer legal.

SECOND THIS! That will be a delight to see!

 

[doclee]

I would like to know where the passage is in the rule book that says, "It is OK to reach out and stop an offensive player with your hand(s) when he tries to drive to the basket." or, "It is allowed for a man underneath the basket to push another guy out of the way so he can secure the rebound." If coaches had encouraged players to follow the rules and if the officials had the guts to call infractions accordingly, this new view of the rules would never have been an issue.

 

[DDThompson]

The law of unintended consequences. They might hope this opens the game up. It may just increase scoring while making the games drag.

But increase in scoring is what the NCAA is hoping for since last year was so dismal and embarassing. More free throws if teams don't adjust or more baskets if teams do. That's a "win" for NCAA. If teams don't adjust, then basketball is pretty boring watching a guy shoot from 15' with no one guarding him.

 

[tm3308]

I seriously doubt it. Besides it's the same rule for every team in the conference.

I think you'll see some outcries from coaches at the beginning of the year but the good coaches will adjust as will their players. I still can't believe people think a guy as smart as Aaron Craft isn't going to figure things out. Same with MSU. I guarantee if they aren't successful by years end it won't be because of the rule changes, it'd be because they miss Nix or they have injuries.

Nor will MSU's "style" of play change. They'll still be a nightmare on the boards and they'll still be good defenders.

It won't really affect MSU. They have the athletes to play however they want. But programs like Wisconsin and Purdue are the ones that I think you'll see struggle with this rule (assuming it's properly enforced). They don't typically have the top-level athletes like MSU, and rely a lot more heavily on the hand checking because they have to. MSU doesn't HAVE to, they simply have chosen to over the last 10 years.

And I'm interested to see what this does to Craft. Yes, he's a smart guy and I'm sure he'll focus more on playing actual defense. But I'm interested to see if he's still on the same level defensively as he has been once he makes that change. I think he'll get exposed as only an above average defender, not the second coming of Gary Payton the media makes him out to be.

 

[Linesetter]

It won't really affect MSU. They have the athletes to play however they want. But programs like Wisconsin and Purdue are the ones that I think you'll see struggle with this rule (assuming it's properly enforced). They don't typically have the top-level athletes like MSU, and rely a lot more heavily on the hand checking because they have to. MSU doesn't HAVE to, they simply have chosen to over the last 10 years.

And I'm interested to see what this does to Craft. Yes, he's a smart guy and I'm sure he'll focus more on playing actual defense. But I'm interested to see if he's still on the same level defensively as he has been once he makes that change. I think he'll get exposed as only an above average defender, not the second coming of Gary Payton the media makes him out to be.

From a basketball strategy standpoint that statement above is not accurate. Purdue and Wisconsin play very different defensive systems and have for years. Purdue presses and extends their defense well past the 3-point line and definitely uses their "hands" as you call it. Purdue has had great athletes and individual defenders of the past that were great at stripping and getting steals. Wisconsin on the other hand almost never presses and rarely extends their defense more than a foot or two past the 3-point line. They play more of a "pack line" position defense which is completely opposite of Purdue/Indiana that are pressure teams/steal focused teams. Wisconsin relies on getting charge calls as you definitely see their guys baiting the refs with flops (never seen a team take more charges) but they rarely reach and grab because they aren't going for steals (Wisconsin is typically at the bottom half of steals each season).

One point you do make that is accurate is that Wisconsin doesn't have the athletes that MSU/Indiana/Purdue has which is why they play "pack line" position defense and Wisconsin typically doesn't gamble on steals or reaching because that would take their body out of position and their athletes lack the recovery speed to make up for getting out of position if they don't get the strip and that leaves their entire help defense vulnerable. They don't play zone but they play so much help defense that it almost acts as a zone.

The block/charge rule will definitely impact Wisconsin but the other rule might impact Wisconsin the least of any team in the conference so it's a very bimodal +/- situation for the Badgers. Negative because it negates the 3-4 charge calls they get a game and positive on the other aspect because Wisconsin doesn't reach on the perimeter historically anyway.

Purdue will suffer the most in conference due to the rule changes but Indiana might take a big hit too. Oladipo made a defensive reputation at using an arm bar and having his hands all over. Craft already plays sound fundamental defense, he'll have to clean some things up but he already understands positioning, communication and anticipation which are the building blocks of good defense

Yes I'm a former coach and also apparently a basketball dork

 

[tm3308]

From a basketball strategy standpoint that statement above is not accurate. Purdue and Wisconsin play very different defensive systems and have for years. Purdue presses and extends their defense well past the 3-point line and definitely uses their "hands" as you call it. Purdue has had great athletes and individual defenders of the past that were great at stripping and getting steals. Wisconsin on the other hand almost never presses and rarely extends their defense more than a foot or two past the 3-point line. They play more of a "pack line" position defense which is completely opposite of Purdue/Indiana that are pressure teams/steal focused teams. Wisconsin relies on getting charge calls as you definitely see their guys baiting the refs with flops (never seen a team take more charges) but they rarely reach and grab because they aren't going for steals (Wisconsin is typically at the bottom half of steals each season).

One point you do make that is accurate is that Wisconsin doesn't have the athletes that MSU/Indiana/Purdue has which is why they play "pack line" position defense and Wisconsin typically doesn't gamble on steals or reaching because that would take their body out of position and their athletes lack the recovery speed to make up for getting out of position if they don't get the strip and that leaves their entire help defense vulnerable. They don't play zone but they play so much help defense that it almost acts as a zone.

The block/charge rule will definitely impact Wisconsin but the other rule might impact Wisconsin the least of any team in the conference so it's a very bimodal +/- situation for the Badgers. Negative because it negates the 3-4 charge calls they get a game and positive on the other aspect because Wisconsin doesn't reach on the perimeter historically anyway.

Purdue will suffer the most in conference due to the rule changes but Indiana might take a big hit too. Oladipo made a defensive reputation at using an arm bar and having his hands all over. Craft already plays sound fundamental defense, he'll have to clean some things up but he already understands positioning, communication and anticipation which are the building blocks of good defense

Yes I'm a former coach and also apparently a basketball dork

You lost me here.

 

[Linesetter]

You lost me here.

Maybe if you explained to me how I lost you I could clarify better?

Look at the games on DVR if you recorded any of them. Oladipo defended in the post religiously using an "arm bar" to the offensive players lower back thus impeding his movement. On the perimeter Oladipo went after steals and swiped at the ball 90% of the time. Often times he would keep one hand on the offensive player at all times. More movement came from his upper body than his lower body.

Now don't misinterpret, Craft also did this but I've watched enough of Aaron Craft over 3 years to know he has exceptional footwork and anticipation. That second part "anticipation" is what will still allow him to be a really good defender under the new rules. It's kind of sad that people correlate Craft with being "dirty" defensively just because he's good. I don't like losing to his team but I can appreciate and respect solid play when I see it.

Sadly, I think the discourse on these message boards (not just Iowa's) can become slanted negatively over teams opposing fans hate. I think people hate Craft because he's good, because OSU is good.

 

[ibahawkeye]

Maybe if you explained to me how I lost you I could clarify better?

Look at the games on DVR if you recorded any of them. Oladipo defended in the post religiously using an "arm bar" to the offensive players lower back thus impeding his movement. On the perimeter Oladipo went after steals and swiped at the ball 90% of the time. Often times he would keep one hand on the offensive player at all times. More movement came from his upper body than his lower body.

Now don't misinterpret, Craft also did this but I've watched enough of Aaron Craft over 3 years to know he has exceptional footwork and anticipation. That second part "anticipation" is what will still allow him to be a really good defender under the new rules. It's kind of sad that people correlate Craft with being "dirty" defensively just because he's good. I don't like losing to his team but I can appreciate and respect solid play when I see it.

Sadly, I think the discourse on these message boards (not just Iowa's) can become slanted negatively over teams opposing fans hate. I think people hate Craft because he's good, because OSU is good.

Stick aroun, you offer good insight. The guys who think craft is an overrated defender are just hating. I'm a Hawk fan but good defense is good defense and craft plays it and has been smart enough to know what he can get away with thus far, I'm sure he'll continue to figure it out and make the proper adjustments as necessary to the rule changes.

 

[volhawk50]

I'm glad Iowa has a deep team and plays at a faster pace. It seems like the new foul-per-minute game will provide a huge advantage to those aspects. That would give us a nice leg up against teams like Ohio State.

 

[tm3308]

Stick aroun, you offer good insight. The guys who think craft is an overrated defender are just hating. I'm a Hawk fan but good defense is good defense and craft plays it and has been smart enough to know what he can get away with thus far, I'm sure he'll continue to figure it out and make the proper adjustments as necessary to the rule changes.

He's said, on the record, that he fouls on every play. Of course he knows he can get away with it. But I'm interested to see what he looks like after the rule changes. Maybe he'll still be a good defender, maybe not. But he was as guilty as anyone of grabbing jerseys and hand checking, if not more so, under the old rules.

 

[bcl20]

I just want to see a defender rewarded if he beats his man to a spot. The offensive player rewarded if he beats his man and I don't want to see offensive players bailed on when they take dumb shots just to draw a foul. And the defensive player punished if he reaches in too much. I don't think any of that happens enough.

 

[okeefe4prez]

But programs like Wisconsin and Purdue are the ones that I think you'll see struggle with this rule (assuming it's properly enforced).

Going back to the blown call by Jim Bain, Iowa has not been able to rely on proper enforcement of the rules when on the road at Purdue or Wisconsin.

 

[ibahawkeye]

He's said, on the record, that he fouls on every play. Of course he knows he can get away with it. But I'm interested to see what he looks like after the rule changes. Maybe he'll still be a good defender, maybe not. But he was as guilty as anyone of grabbing jerseys and hand checking, if not more so, under the old rules.

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