Rethinking non-conference schedule

[guffus]

NW and Purdue both scheduled 2 tough P5 in non-conference, got off to lousy starts and both also lost to MAC teams. It looked like their seasons were going to be disasters.

But then they both ended up beating Iowa and now have better records in conference than Iowa.

So is it better for conference play to play some decent teams in non-conference?

Weaknesses get exposed early when it's still early enough to make changes. Also players find out early just how hard you need to work to win games. What do you think?

 

[STILLBUSTER]

Are you kidding? Iowa wouldn't sniff 7 wins without the non-con cream-puffs. As for exposing weaknesses / making changes / sparking motivation ... All those things should happen, now. It's real easy to see the errors and trending strategical blunders from the first offensive series of the (and every) season. Deal is, the coaches don't do a damn thing differently to remedy it as the season goes on, regardless of who they played or who they are playing.

Getting bitch-slapped early by a Colorado or Kentucky or Duke would have the same impact as eeking by or crushing Northern Illannoy and directional Sun-Belt U. It would just be another loss, no different than the several to follow in conference and it certainly wouldn't avoid them.

Not to mention, Iowa State is going to fill that role on the Hawks schedule, starting next season.

 

[lightning1]

Are you kidding? Iowa wouldn't sniff 7 wins without the non-con cream-puffs. As for exposing weaknesses / making changes / sparking motivation ... All those things should happen, now. It's real easy to see the errors and trending strategical blunders from the first offensive series of the (and every) season. Deal is, the coaches don't do a damn thing differently to remedy it as the season goes on, regardless of who they played or who they are playing.

Getting bitch-slapped early by a Colorado or Kentucky or Duke would have the same impact as eeking by or crushing Northern Illannoy and directional Sun-Belt U. It would just be another loss, no different than the several to follow in conference and it certainly wouldn't avoid them.

Not to mention, Iowa State is going to fill that role on the Hawks schedule, starting next season.

This^^^^. Take away the Cream Cakes and the Gutless Gary/Kirk Ferentz duo are kicking rocks years ago.

 

[okeefe4prez]

This^^^^. Take away the Cream Cakes and the Gutless Gary/Kirk Ferentz duo are kicking rocks years ago.

The 9th Big Ten game is a bad thing for Iowa. Really bad. We played some decent mid tier P5 teams for a pretty good stretch there and seemed to always win those at home and pretty much always lose on the road. Arizona, Pitt, ASU. I like playing that level of team, but with 9 Big Ten games now, Ferentz doesn't want to go 1-2 non-con and then 4-5 in conference to finish 5-7. Gotta assume ISU is about a coin toss, which I think it has been under Kurt's watchful eye, so you gotta get 2 pretty much guaranteed wins in non-con to protect 6 wins. I think he gets $100k for a bowl game and with at least one soft crossover game and Illinois and Minnesota on our side, he's only got three near guaranteed conference wins a year.

These people are talking about taking food out of the poor guy's mouth. Boats and nice vacations ain't free, guys.

 

[lightning1]

The 9th Big Ten game is a bad thing for Iowa. Really bad. We played some decent mid tier P5 teams for a pretty good stretch there and seemed to always win those at home and pretty much always lose on the road. Arizona, Pitt, ASU. I like playing that level of team, but with 9 Big Ten games now, Ferentz doesn't want to go 1-2 non-con and then 4-5 in conference to finish 5-7. Gotta assume ISU is about a coin toss, which I think it has been under Kurt's watchful eye, so you gotta get 2 pretty much guaranteed wins in non-con to protect 6 wins. I think he gets $100k for a bowl game and with at least one soft crossover game and Illinois and Minnesota on our side, he's only got three near guaranteed conference wins a year.

These people are talking about taking food out of the poor guy's mouth. Boats and nice vacations ain't free, guys.

What's this "we" shit? You're no Iowa fan.

 

[dahlhawk]

What's this "we" shit? You're no Iowa fan.

You get to decide that? I'm sick of posters on this board that think they have the right to say who is a fan and who isn't based on their litmus test of what a "fan" is. You can be a fan of the Iowa Hawkeye's and not of the current Hawkeye coaching staff. I was a fan of Iowa before Kirk took over, as well as Fran. Sometimes coaches get stagnant. There is a reason schools change coaches that have nothing to do with the quality of the coaches personality. Sometimes change is needed. I see that now as I saw it during Hayden's last year. Better now when the cupboard is half full than later when it is empty like when Hayden quit.

 

[SCHawkeye2]

If Ray Nagel or Bob Commings had our current non-conf schedule, they might have coached for 20 years at Iowa.

 

[lightning1]

You get to decide that? I'm sick of posters on this board that think they have the right to say who is a fan and who isn't based on their litmus test of what a "fan" is. You can be a fan of the Iowa Hawkeye's and not of the current Hawkeye coaching staff. I was a fan of Iowa before Kirk took over, as well as Fran. Sometimes coaches get stagnant. There is a reason schools change coaches that have nothing to do with the quality of the coaches personality. Sometimes change is needed. I see that now as I saw it during Hayden's last year. Better now when the cupboard is half full than later when it is empty like when Hayden quit.

No. I'm pretty sure he's admitted as much in the past. He really is a fan of either ISU or Northwestern. I can't remember which one. Ask him yourself.

 

[lightning1]

You get to decide that? I'm sick of posters on this board that think they have the right to say who is a fan and who isn't based on their litmus test of what a "fan" is. You can be a fan of the Iowa Hawkeye's and not of the current Hawkeye coaching staff. I was a fan of Iowa before Kirk took over, as well as Fran. Sometimes coaches get stagnant. There is a reason schools change coaches that have nothing to do with the quality of the coaches personality. Sometimes change is needed. I see that now as I saw it during Hayden's last year. Better now when the cupboard is half full than later when it is empty like when Hayden quit.

He's a Northwestern fan. See his thread.
https://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum/threads/ranking-iowas-losses-to-northwestern.84988/

 

[phdsvp]

Gotta schedule those bad teams so Kirk gets his bonus for big win #7.

 

[The Big LeHAWKski]

NW and Purdue both scheduled 2 tough P5 in non-conference, got off to lousy starts and both also lost to MAC teams. It looked like their seasons were going to be disasters.

But then they both ended up beating Iowa and now have better records in conference than Iowa.

So is it better for conference play to play some decent teams in non-conference?

Weaknesses get exposed early when it's still early enough to make changes. Also players find out early just how hard you need to work to win games. What do you think?

Your logic is sound, but it goes completely against the Ferentz Family Financial plan.

 

[TychoBrahe]

If Ray Nagel or Bob Commings had our current non-conf schedule, they might have coached for 20 years at Iowa.

Nagel was a heckuva coach, and it wasn't results that led to him leaving, it was fights with Evy and also the fallout from the black player boycott episode. Without Evy and without the boycott, Iowa might've been pretty good in the early 70's. One of the biggest "what-ifs" in Iowa FB history. Nagel was great at offenses, so those teams would've been fun to watch, too.

 

[MoseSchrute]

"black player boycott episode"?

I am unaware. Please enlighten me.

 

[TychoBrahe]

In the late 60's, Iowa got really good, with Ed Podolak and other quality players, and were really close to being a ranked team in 1968 if they hadn't lost a couple of close ones that year (they were 18 points away from being 8-2). Evy was AD at the time, and he didn't get along with Nagel (or, really, anyone).

Then in Spring 1969, two black players were kicked off the team (academics for one, rumored the passing of bad checks for the other). Now, this was when there were campus protests at Iowa, and the Black Power movement was occurring, so tensions were already high. So after those two black players were booted, sixteen other black football players threatened to boycott practices until the two kicked-off players were reinstated. Nagel said they'd better come to practice or they're off the team, and that was that: they didn't show, so he booted them.

The suspended black players then sent a red-hot manifesto (which included some unfortunate slave-master comparisons) to the papers, which further dis-endeared them from Coach Nagel. A short while later, some of them had a change of heart and wanted back on (realizing they may have been manipulated by others with their own agendas at the time), but I recall that they were told no, it's too late now, we'll have to vote on you in the fall for reinstatement (and some actually were let back on the team). However, this really soured Nagel on the whole Iowa FB experience. And on manifestos, too, I'd bet.

Meanwhile, Evy and Nagel were in full warfare mode with each other, to the point where a FB assistant complained to Evy behind Nagel's back, and actually started spying on Nagel, and it all blew up: the freshman coach quit, taking his starting QB son with him; the asst coach-spy was fired by Nagel; then Evy AND Nagel get fired; then Nagel is reinstated; then Nagel quits for good a couple years later since the program was destroyed by all this craziness; and a team with a lot of promise in 1968 got bad enough to end up 0-13 in 1973 under FXL. Attendance got as low as 31,000 for a game that season. The absolute worst year in Iowa FB history.

Is it any wonder we got terrible after all this crazy shit happened?

 

[MoseSchrute]

^ Thanks. That's a story I'd somehow never heard before.

 

[SCHawkeye2]

Nagel actually went 10-10-1 in the B10 from 1968-1970. (very similar to KF's B10 record).
Non conf schedule was brutal in those days - #7 USC, # 5 Notre Dame, #8 Oregon State along with Arizona, Washington State, TCU, All Power 5 opponents. Even with that non conf schedule, they scratched out a couple 5-5 overall seasons. Had Nagel had three cupcakes, he might have gone 7-3 or 8-2 in those years.
What would KF's record be with those non-conf opponents to go with his usual .500 B10 record?

 

[Northside Hawk]

In the late 60's, Iowa got really good, with Ed Podolak and other quality players, and were really close to being a ranked team in 1968 if they hadn't lost a couple of close ones that year (they were 18 points away from being 8-2). Evy was AD at the time, and he didn't get along with Nagel (or, really, anyone).

Then in Spring 1969, two black players were kicked off the team (academics for one, rumored the passing of bad checks for the other). Now, this was when there were campus protests at Iowa, and the Black Power movement was occurring, so tensions were already high. So after those two black players were booted, sixteen other black football players threatened to boycott practices until the two kicked-off players were reinstated. Nagel said they'd better come to practice or they're off the team, and that was that: they didn't show, so he booted them.

The suspended black players then sent a red-hot manifesto (which included some unfortunate slave-master comparisons) to the papers, which further dis-endeared them from Coach Nagel. A short while later, some of them had a change of heart and wanted back on (realizing they may have been manipulated by others with their own agendas at the time), but I recall that they were told no, it's too late now, we'll have to vote on you in the fall for reinstatement (and some actually were let back on the team). However, this really soured Nagel on the whole Iowa FB experience. And on manifestos, too, I'd bet.

Meanwhile, Evy and Nagel were in full warfare mode with each other, to the point where a FB assistant complained to Evy behind Nagel's back, and actually started spying on Nagel, and it all blew up: the freshman coach quit, taking his starting QB son with him; the asst coach-spy was fired by Nagel; then Evy AND Nagel get fired; then Nagel is reinstated; then Nagel quits for good a couple years later since the program was destroyed by all this craziness; and a team with a lot of promise in 1968 got bad enough to end up 0-13 in 1973 under FXL. Attendance got as low as 31,000 for a game that season. The absolute worst year in Iowa FB history.

Is it any wonder we got terrible after all this crazy shit happened?

I was a toddler when that whole mess happened. I've heard references to it before that this is the most conprehensive dissertation.

Who knows? Recruiting competition may STILL be using that against us. Forget the fact that we employed a coach for twenty years who integrated the old Southwest Conference.

Sixteen African American players getting booted off the team would have been an even bigger deal in 1969 than it would be today. They would have had fewer alternatives. Many D 1 schools in the south were still segregated. Many others were making it very uncomfortable for the ones who did enroll (once again, Hayden take a bow) Very few NFL teams were scouting the small school conferences south of the Mason-Dixon line. Those who were, like Oakland and Kansas City who were still AFL teams at the time, had a major leg up in NFL talent.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Nagel actually went 10-10-1 in the B10 from 1968-1970. (very similar to KF's B10 record).
Non conf schedule was brutal in those days - #7 USC, # 5 Notre Dame, #8 Oregon State along with Arizona, Washington State, TCU, All Power 5 opponents. Even with that non conf schedule, they scratched out a couple 5-5 overall seasons. Had Nagel had three cupcakes, he might have gone 7-3 or 8-2 in those years.
What would KF's record be with those non-conf opponents to go with his usual .500 B10 record?

Fry inherited non cons from 1979-1984 that included Nebraska (4xs) Penn State (twice) Oklahoma, UCLA, and Arizona (twice, remember that 5-3 loss in Kinnick?)

After a lull for a few years non cons cranked up again from 1988-1994. Home and homes with The U, Colorado, and Oregon, as well as dates with Tennessee and NC State in the now defunct Kickoff Classic that used to be held in the Meadowlands.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I am unaware. Please enlighten me.

Seriously? 1969/70. Involved Dennis Green, among others.

It started with a student from the Black "leadership" on campus. Some thought Black Panthers may have been involved, but for certain it involved Dick Gregory (at least peripherally). Basically, in a nutshell, the complaint was that Black players were being "used" and were not getting academic/career/etc. help.

Several of the players didn't show up for Spring practice in 1970, including some freshmen. Nagel, at a press conference, said they were off the team. Several then said they would come back if "conditions" were met. Nobody ever approached Nagel to say what those were, but many thought Evy DID talk to leadership (Evy was AD still) and withheld all this from Nagel. (As an aside, while this wasn't Evy's ultimate undoing, it certainly played a role)

Things progressed, with many asking to come back. Nagel put it to a team vote. A few were NOT voted back on. Among those returning were Dennis Green (who was figuring pretty significantly in the offensive backfield) and Craig Clemons.

1970 went in the tank, of course. Evy left, Nagel was fired, but public support reversed that decision, so he coached one more year and announced his intention to leave at the team banquet in 1971. On came Francis X Lauterbuhr and the rest, as they say, is history.