Recruiting Disconnect

[JonDMiller]

I am so sick of this, we're not Penn State Ohio State or Michigan BS. Either is Nebraska and they seem to recruit just fine. So does Wisconsin. Weren't you going to respond to my Li'l Ole Iowa post because being honest Jon, you seem to be the one banging that drum the loudest these days.

You can be sick of it all you want. You can want it to change now. I understand that.

But the fact of the matter is, if you don't see that such a chasm exists, you are ignoring reality.

Nebraska has multiple national titles within the last 20 years, more before that...they won 9 or more games for over 30 straight seasons. The are an iconic program. they don't compete with any other major schools in their state, have nearly 300 straight sellouts, facilities that dwarf what Iowa has.

Those things matter and affect things.

Ohio State and Michigan and Penn State don't need any explanation. It's easier to recruit there, harder to recruit to Iowa.

Iowa is doing a good job, IMO. Can they do better on the recruiting front? Sure can.

Wisconsin's OL this year is in the same league as iowa's OL from 2002. It's an elite group. They have a good tradition of developing guys, too. They are not landing 5 star OL year after year.

 

[JonDMiller]

Weren't you going to respond to my Li'l Ole Iowa post because being honest Jon, you seem to be the one banging that drum the loudest these days.

I was but don't feel like going through the exercise. Futile.

because I have laid out how Iowa is performing over the last decade related to the rest of the sport, and its at an elite level, as elite as it ever has been. Some folks demand the next step, when they don't realize that next step is in the neighborhood of the Ohio State, USC, Texas, LSU, Alabama, etc, the blue bloods of the sport.

You can want that, but to act like its just some guaranteed next step, when you get disappointed when it doesnt happen, that's on you.

We are all disappointed related to this season. Iowa had a lot in place and going for it. I have never said I am not disappointed, and I understand while we all are.

That being said, one year doesn't pay for all, one year doesn't mean a trend, one year doesnt erase what is going on at Iowa on the whole

You and I seem to part ways here. You acknowledge good things from the past decade, I realize that, and yet you dont want to hear the we are just Iowa stuff.

Phrased like that, yeah, no one wants to hear that.

But I just don't think you have fully looked in to exactly what Iowa has done the last decade, and then compared those numbers to see who else is doing that stuff (throwing out Boise Utah and TCU because they don't play in a conference worth a damn)

The only program that has a better winning percentage than Iowa during the last decade that is not one of the all time Top 10 or so programs Virginia Tech, and they are in the midst of their best era in school history.

I would love to win as consistently as Ohio State. But just because I want it to happen doesn't change the challenges or the odds related to it actually happening.

 

[BSpringsteen]

So you are of the belief that we are just Iowa?

That is a fair position to take, I just want to make sure I understand your position correctly.

 

[jesterapparel]

I think what Jon is trying to say is that Kirk Ferentz has taken Iowa to another level that is just below the elite level. The elite level is possible, but the odds are stacked against Iowa to ever get there because of population of are state and where Iowa is located. I think that is what he means when he says where Iowa.

 

[JonDMiller]

So you are of the belief that we are just Iowa?

That is a fair position to take, I just want to make sure I understand your position correctly.

I am of the belief that we are all disappointed because this season was a lost opportunity. But I also believe that what the program has been doing over the last decade is damned good.

Some folks can separate the two, some folks have a tougher time doing that, because their emotional state RIGHT NOW based upon this year isn't allowing them the chance to do that.

And I am also of the strong belief that it's harder to win at Iowa than it is Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Florida, Texas, LSU, Oklahoma, Miami, Auburn and Georgia. I throw out Boise, TCU and Utah because they don't play in a conference that challenges them each week like the teams above.

Removing those three and looking at things over the past decade, which is a pretty damned fair chunk of time, there are just a few programs that have won more games than Iowa. BC, WV, Oregon and Wisky along with Iowa are all within three or four wins of each other over the past decade.

There is clearly an elite tier in college football. Iowa is not in it, and some members of the elite tier have performed worse than Iowa the past decade: Michigan, Nebraska, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Penn State just to name a few. No team outside of Ohio State has won more Big Ten game than Iowa the last decade.

Iowa is in that next cut, they are a Top 20 football program. But to go from Top 20 to Top 10 is a HUGE, HUGE jump that requires winning national titles and rolling 9-plus wins a year for a long, long period of time.

It's great to want that. I'd love to see it. However to demand it, just because you want it, while ignoring the real obstacles in place that will be in your way to get it, that's where you and I part ways.

 

[BSpringsteen]

It's actually not that far away Jon - it's just beating Iowa State Indiana & N'Western really. If you throw Minnesota in the mix which I don't, then it gets really really good.

2005 we become 9-3
2006 we become 9-3 while still losing to Minnesota
2007 we become 8-4
2008 we become 9-3
2009 we become 11-1
2010 we become 8-4 while still losing to Minnesota

By simply beating the teams that you are supposed to beat that looks a whole lot better than what the reality was. Even if you lose those games once in a while, they look better. To lose them as consistently as Iowa does is beyond frustrating especially since there is NO GOOD REASON for it.

 

[JonDMiller]

It's actually not that far away Jon - it's just beating Iowa State Indiana & N'Western really. If you throw Minnesota in the mix which I don't, then it gets really really good.

2005 we become 9-3
2006 we become 9-3 while still losing to Minnesota
2007 we become 8-4
2008 we become 9-3
2009 we become 11-1
2010 we become 8-4 while still losing to Minnesota

By simply beating the teams that you are supposed to beat that looks a whole lot better than what the reality was. Even if you lose those games once in a while, they look better. To lose them as consistently as Iowa does is beyond frustrating especially since there is NO GOOD REASON for it.

But this also assumes that Iowa is going to beat PSU 8 out of 9 years. Or that they win all but one road game last year.

BUT...I agree that the NW results need to change. Should win that game on a 2 of 3 clip. But I think realistically you hope you can split home and home with PSU. Iowa won't be playing them as much in the future of course. And MN should be min 2 of 3 clip too

 

[JonDMiller]

Bruce, the exercise that you and I are having I think can be summed up pretty simple...we mostly agree on everything of importance. One of us is still more emotionally charged up than the other related to the disappointing season we have just witnessed. There is nothing wrong with either side of this.

In January (as long as Iowa represents itself in the bowl game) we'll be singing kumbayah

 

[SLarew]

Like.....?

Blake Larsen and Dan Doering may be two, altho not sure if they had 5 star ratings.

 

[BSpringsteen]

I don't think there is anything wrong with your opinion at all Jon - I disagree with it, but like I said, it's a fair position to take.

I'm not really all that emotional about it. That is why you play the games, otherwise what fun would it be.

I am just sick of Iowa losing games it should win in similar fashion. I've always been a shoot for the stars guy, never being satisfied with anything less than world dominance.

That's how I wrote Born to Run after all.

 

[hawkfarmer]

Here's a list of Scout's 4 and 5 star commits since 2002

4*
2002-
OL Chris Felder
K Kyle Schlicher
LB Ed Miles
QB Nathan Chandler (JUCO)

2004-
CB Walner Belneus (JUCO)

2005-
DL Ryan Bain
OL Rafael Eubanks
OL Tyler Blum
WR Trey Stross
QB Jake Christensen
RB Kalvin Bailey
DT Alex Kanellis

2006-
DE Adrian Clayborn
TE AJ Edds
LB Jeremiha Hunter
K Ryan Donahue
OL Bryan Bulaga

2007-
CB Cedric Everson
S Jordan Bernstine
DE Christian Ballard
LB Tyler Nielsen

2009-
WR Keenan Davis
RB Brandon Wegher

2010-
TE CJ Fed
OL Andrew Donnal

2011-
OG Jordan Walsh

5*
2003-
OL Mike Jones

2005-
OL Dan Doering
OL Dace Richardson
TE Tony Moeaki


If you look at the 2005 class and beyond there aren't many busts and they are arguably the best players at Iowa in KF's time. Just something for everyone who says we suck at handling 4 and 5 star players.


Maybe the early years, but that was a lot of rebuilding still, so it's tough, and some were JUCO's and some were forced to leave or left before we knew of their true potential.

Also if you consider injuries, then they could've been even better. THis is mainly for Richardson, Moeaki, Kanellis, and Bernstine.

 

[jeberhardt]

It's actually not that far away Jon - it's just beating Iowa State Indiana & N'Western really. If you throw Minnesota in the mix which I don't, then it gets really really good.

2005 we become 9-3
2006 we become 9-3 while still losing to Minnesota
2007 we become 8-4
2008 we become 9-3
2009 we become 11-1
2010 we become 8-4 while still losing to Minnesota

By simply beating the teams that you are supposed to beat that looks a whole lot better than what the reality was. Even if you lose those games once in a while, they look better. To lose them as consistently as Iowa does is beyond frustrating especially since there is NO GOOD REASON for it.

This is a great illustration of why the "little ol' Iowa" view drives me insane. Great stuff, if Iowa consistently beat Minnesota on top of the teams you mentioned then look at the numbers. So in a way we are saying that the difference between Iowa being a top 20 program and an elite program is beating Northwestern, ISU and Minnesota consistently. That should NOT be a huge jump.

As Jon said we would have to beat Penn State. However Iowa does beat PSU consistently so that shouldn't be an issue.

Bruce...your posts always scratch me right where it itches, you know your stuff.

 

[hwks1]

My question is this...

It has been purported that we have the following:

1. One of the great strength and conditioning coaches in all of sports.
2. Every TE that has started for us since 2000 has wound up in the NFL
3. Widely regarded as the place to go if you are an O-Lineman with NFL aspirations.

I guess I don't understand how we don't reload into a world class O-Line every year.

This pretty well sums up most of the programs shortcomings. From an offensive perspective this program does 'less with more' than others. Offense and particularly the OLine has been the Achilles of this program for the last 10 years. I have never understood the praise for our Oline... yes we have produced a player here and there but never have they produced consistent, productive Oline performance year over year.

 

[WestCoastHawk]

It would be so much easier to get major recruits if we had a major city or two in Iowa to recruit from. Doesn't help we don't have any national titles either.

 

[CAARHawk]

The O line and the season died with the loss of the 2 guards. If Mac or Gettis are available over the last month, it is a whole different season. Plain and simple.

That being said, Iowa had one of the smallest lines in the conference. Do we expect it to get that much bigger? Ferentz doesn't have much room to grow, Gettis doesn't. Is Reiff going to put on 20 lbs and still retain his quickness? How about Zus? What about Boffeli, Van Slotten, and Donnell? Can they get into the mix? Also how big are these guys now?