Re-watched the Exhibition

InGoodCo said:
Fair enough... IMO, I'd rather face teams that rely on 3's then have guards that can drive or big post play opportunity.
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I think you are generalizing quite a bit here. Teams that “rely” on 3s generally aren’t very good. Now good teams often have guards that can penetrate, bigs that can post, and shooters on the wings. MSU, Purdue, and Maryland are all prime examples of that.

The 3pt shot has evolved to a point where guys are so efficient at making them in today’s day and age that an open three is probably the most effective shot in basketball.

Bottom line, giving up a lot of open 3s is not a recipe for success.
 
InGoodCo said:
I look at this way - if Iowa's BIG weakness is giving up the lowest percentage shot in the game, I'll live with that.
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I agree. Almost all coaches would rather give up lightly contested 3's then to get cut up in the paint. If Iowa can stop penetration this year or provide better help D then it will be a big improvement from last year.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I think you are generalizing quite a bit here. Teams that “rely” on 3s generally aren’t very good. Now good teams often have guards that can penetrate, bigs that can post, and shooters on the wings. MSU, Purdue, and Maryland are all prime examples of that.

The 3pt shot has evolved to a point where guys are so efficient at making them in today’s day and age that an open three is probably the most effective shot in basketball.

Bottom line, giving up a lot of open 3s is not a recipe for success.
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One could say giving up open anything is not a recipe for success.
 
Adam said:
One could say giving up open anything is not a recipe for success.
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Right - and it was an over all generalization. I don't want to give up 3 pointers, they are worth more then 2, but by percentage wise, it's the least made shot in basketball right? Every team has a weakness, good teams can over come it by being more efficient in other places. I just think even if Iowa does struggle on the perimeter it doesn't doom the team because it can excel in other spots. Either way, I expect it to be better then last season. When playing some of these weaker opponents, it's all they have. I doubt we see to many meaningful games against good opponents that take 30 - 3 pt shots against us.
 
InGoodCo said:
Right - and it was an over all generalization. I don't want to give up 3 pointers, they are worth more then 2, but by percentage wise, it's the least made shot in basketball right? Every team has a weakness, good teams can over come it by being more efficient in other places. I just think even if Iowa does struggle on the perimeter it doesn't doom the team because it can excel in other spots. Either way, I expect it to be better then last season. When playing some of these weaker opponents, it's all they have. I doubt we see to many meaningful games against good opponents that take 30 - 3 pt shots against us.
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Well I’m certainly not giving up hope that the 3pt D will improve. I think the simple fact of replacing Jok’s minutes with more minutes for Moss, Baer, Wagner, and Nunge will be a huge upgrade to our 3pt defense. Quite frankly, Jok was often pretty lazy in closing out to shooters.

Okay you keep saying 3pt shot is the lowest % shot, which is true, however that doesn’t tell the whole story. Let’s take a look.

Last year Iowa offensively shot 49.9% from 2 and 37.9% from 3.

49.9% x 2 = .997 points per possession

37.9% x 3 = 1.137 points per possession

So on average, Iowa’s best possessions last year were ones that ended in a 3pt shot. For reference, UCLA led the country in points per possession at 1.189.

So as you can see, if you have trouble defending the three, there is a good chance your defensive efficiency isn’t very good, meaning you aren’t a very good defensive team. Let’s hope Iowa can improve there this season.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Well I’m certainly not giving up hope that the 3pt D will improve. I think the simple fact of replacing Jok’s minutes with more minutes for Moss, Baer, Wagner, and Nunge will be a huge upgrade to our 3pt defense. Quite frankly, Jok was often pretty lazy in closing out to shooters.

Okay you keep saying 3pt shot is the lowest % shot, which is true, however that doesn’t tell the whole story. Let’s take a look.

Last year Iowa offensively shot 49.9% from 2 and 37.9% from 3.

49.9% x 2 = .997 points per possession

37.9% x 3 = 1.137 points per possession

So on average, Iowa’s best possessions last year were ones that ended in a 3pt shot. For reference, UCLA led the country in points per possession at 1.189.

So as you can see, if you have trouble defending the three, there is a good chance your defensive efficiency isn’t very good, meaning you aren’t a very good defensive team. Let’s hope Iowa can improve there this season.
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Works for me, I'm not going to argue my point with good evidence to dispute it. I just think it can be overcome if that's the teams weakness, but it's solid in other places. IMO, and it's just my opinion - when a team chucks it up from 3 with a guy on him and from far out, I say ... do it. Let them do it. Shoot that shot. Sometimes it goes in, it doesn't mean we didn't contest it, it means, sometimes teams just make them unconsciously - like Iowa has at times. The other night against William Jewell, there were a few that were open looks because of bad rotation - but there were a lot of 3's with hands in the guys face that went in. Loved Peter, but D was his short coming while at Iowa. Sometimes Jok wouldn't even run back or get a hand up, or half ass put a hand up after the shot. I gotta think having that out will help the perimeter D.
 
InGoodCo said:
Works for me, I'm not going to argue my point with good evidence to dispute it. I just think it can be overcome if that's the teams weakness, but it's solid in other places. IMO, and it's just my opinion - when a team chucks it up from 3 with a guy on him and from far out, I say ... do it. Let them do it. Shoot that shot. Sometimes it goes in, it doesn't mean we didn't contest it, it means, sometimes teams just make them unconsciously - like Iowa has at times. The other night against William Jewell, there were a few that were open looks because of bad rotation - but there were a lot of 3's with hands in the guys face that went in. Loved Peter, but D was his short coming while at Iowa. Sometimes Jok wouldn't even run back or get a hand up, or half ass put a hand up after the shot. I gotta think having that out will help the perimeter D.
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If we can contest 3s and force opponents to shoot them from deep, our 3pt defense will be in very good shape.

As far as the exhibition goes, I’m with you in that I’m not in the least bit concerned.
 
Just really bothers me how many wide open 3's teams get vs Iowa. I can live with contested 3's all day every day. Its when Iowa runs zone and doesn't rotate over to the wide open shooter that I lose my mind.

Seems like every year Iowa gets lit up by a team because they knocked down their wide open 3's. Then that same team shoots 20% from 3 the next game and gets beat badly. I remember last year Nebraska lit us up from 3 and then lost almost all of the rest of their Big Ten games.
 
mopkins said:
Just really bothers me how many wide open 3's teams get vs Iowa. I can live with contested 3's all day every day. Its when Iowa runs zone and doesn't rotate over to the wide open shooter that I lose my mind.

Seems like every year Iowa gets lit up by a team because they knocked down their wide open 3's. Then that same team shoots 20% from 3 the next game and gets beat badly. I remember last year Nebraska lit us up from 3 and then lost almost all of the rest of their Big Ten games.
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I’ve just pretty much bought into the fact that this is how it’s gonna be under Fran Mccaffery. Maddening? No question, but it happens year after year and the hope is teams just go ice cold from 3 against Iowa.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Well I’m certainly not giving up hope that the 3pt D will improve. I think the simple fact of replacing Jok’s minutes with more minutes for Moss, Baer, Wagner, and Nunge will be a huge upgrade to our 3pt defense. Quite frankly, Jok was often pretty lazy in closing out to shooters.

Okay you keep saying 3pt shot is the lowest % shot, which is true, however that doesn’t tell the whole story. Let’s take a look.

Last year Iowa offensively shot 49.9% from 2 and 37.9% from 3.

49.9% x 2 = .997 points per possession

37.9% x 3 = 1.137 points per possession

So on average, Iowa’s best possessions last year were ones that ended in a 3pt shot. For reference, UCLA led the country in points per possession at 1.189.

So as you can see, if you have trouble defending the three, there is a good chance your defensive efficiency isn’t very good, meaning you aren’t a very good defensive team. Let’s hope Iowa can improve there this season.
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There is a bit more to it, though, as I am sure you know. Shots close to the basket end up earning a lot more free throws. Also, shots near the basket tend to lead to more offensive rebounds.

I am not sure what the data says on this, but I would also guess that there is lower game-to-game variance for shots close to the hoop than there is for 3-pointers. That matters too, since the goal is to outscore your opponent every game, not just focus on the point differential throughout the season.

What everyone seems to agree on is that shots that are not 3-pointers or within the restricted circle are sub-optimal. However, as so many defenses are now designed to force these specific shots (see San Antonio vs. Houston in NBA playoffs last year), teams/players that are good in these areas will be able to exploit.
 
CP87 said:
There is a bit more to it, though, as I am sure you know. Shots close to the basket end up earning a lot more free throws. Also, shots near the basket tend to lead to more offensive rebounds.

I am not sure what the data says on this, but I would also guess that there is lower game-to-game variance for shots close to the hoop than there is for 3-pointers. That matters too, since the goal is to outscore your opponent every game, not just focus on the point differential throughout the season.

What everyone seems to agree on is that shots that are not 3-pointers or within the restricted circle are sub-optimal. However, as so many defenses are now designed to force these specific shots (see San Antonio vs. Houston in NBA playoffs last year), teams/players that are good in these areas will be able to exploit.
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Agreed and the free throw point is an important one. The best teams have the right combination of easy layups/dunks and open threes. I’m really hoping Iowa can play inside out this year and get a lot of easy looks on offense.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Agreed and the free throw point is an important one. The best teams have the right combination of easy layups/dunks and open threes. I’m really hoping Iowa can play inside out this year and get a lot of easy looks on offense.
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Is this why we get blown out so bad in the NCAA's?
 
HawkGold said:
Is this why we get blown out so bad in the NCAA's?
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Fran has a 2-3 record in the NCAAs at Iowa. One of the losses was in OT. The other two were to 2-seeds where Iowa was a big underdog. One of those teams happened to win the national championship. The other was a very good team who lost to the eventual champion. But I suppose those things aren’t important...
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Fran has a 2-3 record in the NCAAs at Iowa. One of the losses was in OT. The other two were to 2-seeds where Iowa was a big underdog. One of those teams happened to win the national championship. The other was a very good team who lost to the eventual champion. But I suppose those things aren’t important...
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Of course they are important. Still they were pummelings. The perimiter D is a huge weskness or has been.
 
eveningnewsteam said:
I’ve just pretty much bought into the fact that this is how it’s gonna be under Fran Mccaffery. Maddening? No question, but it happens year after year and the hope is teams just go ice cold from 3 against Iowa.
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It's not just Fran... the Hawkeyes have been giving up wide open 3s all the way back to Mr. Davis. I've been pulling my hair out over this for decades... it's like our freakin' signature!

Must be something in the damn water in Iowa City...
 
BlindDogScooter said:
It's not just Fran... the Hawkeyes have been giving up wide open 3s all the way back to Mr. Davis. I've been pulling my hair out over this for decades... it's like our freakin' signature!

Must be something in the damn water in Iowa City...
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I think it's just more annoying when it happens to your team. But more than likely teams get open 3s all the time no matter who they play. You gotta be pretty bad on offense to not be able to get an open 3 in 30 seconds of shot clock.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Agreed and the free throw point is an important one. The best teams have the right combination of easy layups/dunks and open threes. I’m really hoping Iowa can play inside out this year and get a lot of easy looks on offense.
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I think they have to play inside out this year. The game in general is now played outside in. Given the way Iowa is built inside out is the way to go. You want Cook on the block getting fed those entry passes. Lol, Iowa going old school.
 
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