Put this crap to bed; disparity in Nebby plays and yardage vs Iowa

[cecilB]

If you could point to a single moment in the second half where nebraska had the ball and an opportunity to take the lead, that would be great.

Opening possession of 2nd half. It was a 3 and out

 

[smac07]

I think the weather had the biggest say in the stats. Far more than Nebraska did. A good weather day and Nebraska would have been playing against Iowa's second string in the fourth quarter.

You very may well be right, but the IF game is not something to play for a game as the inverse could be Possible as well. Pure speculation.

 

[smac07]

You do understand that Nebraska kicked a FG to get to that 8 point deficit with like less than 2 min left. They didn't get the onside kick so they never had the ball with an opportunity to tie in the 4th qtr. or in 13 min. Of the 3rd qtr. Nebraska never really threatened in that 2nd half. If you want to consider being down 2 scores the entire half to be "within striking distance" then so be it.

As for your whole talent stuff, I'd say having nearly double the players on the All B1G teams as Nebraska tells you what the media and coaches think of Iowa talent level Vs Nebraska talent level. That doesn't matter though I guess, because you "fell" Nebraska is more talented. I'm just pointing out that nearly everyone outside of Husker nation would disagree with that.

I absolutely understood which is why I said that's correct Nebraska DIDN'T. (Stating you were correct) but I guessed you were to busy to notice that I conceded that fact to you?

And Again you use Opinions? I stated It can be argued that Nebraska has equal or potentially slightly greater Talent as a team than Iowa, for the simple Fact that with 4 (5) turnovers and Iowa didn't have a 4 or 5 TD lead. I FEEL that could be argued.

You Know who wouldn't disagree? MSU. Even with Nebraska's god awful coaching, play calling, and execution Nebraska won. All Conference teams are chosen based on opinion by coaches, that's fantastic! Good for those players to make it, but that does not prove that player is more talented at all.

 

[lightning1]

And NEBRASKA had the same amount of Draft picks in 2014 than IOWA so what are you boasting about? The Past??

A Nebraska fan getting on someone else for "boasting about the past"?????? That's rich. I guess you'd agree that Iowa has a better program than Nebraksa......if the past doesn't matter.

 

[bcl20]

Who gives a **** what team has "more talent"

 

[lightning1]

Who gives a **** what team has "more talent"

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

 

[smac07]

A Nebraska fan getting on someone else for "boasting about the past"?????? That's rich. I guess you'd agree that Iowa has a better program than Nebraksa......if the past doesn't matter.

You are jumping in late and clearly haven't read a thing other than that.

I have stated many times the past is the past and have attempted in any situation to not use it unless it had any relevance. YOUR Statement is Inaccurate simply because Programs are about History.

I have not disagreed that This Iowa team of this season is Perfect, as their record shows, I have said that many times on this site as well.

More to the point though the Question was: Is 2015 IOWA more talented than 2015 NEBRASKA :
Facts are:
Iowa Beat Nebraska in 1 game
Iowa Placed X amount of players on the All BIG Team
Iowa won the Division
Iowa will Play MSU for the BIG Crown

I have not disputed any of these because they are facts and Tangible
Talent is not some that is tangible it is pure opinion and speculation.

There is absolutely Nothing anyone on this earth can do to prove, without a doubt, the amount of an intangible object!

That's the equivalent of stating that the exact weight of a Unicorn is 365 lbs.

 

[smac07]

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

I agree with both of you!

You guys sure make anyone who compliments your team earn it that's for sure!

 

[lightning1]

You are jumping in late and clearly haven't read a thing other than that.

I have stated many times the past is the past and have attempted in any situation to not use it unless it had any relevance. YOUR Statement is Inaccurate simply because Programs are about History.

I have not disagreed that This Iowa team of this season is Perfect, as their record shows, I have said that many times on this site as well.

More to the point though the Question was: Is 2015 IOWA more talented than 2015 NEBRASKA :
Facts are:
Iowa Beat Nebraska in 1 game
Iowa Placed X amount of players on the All BIG Team
Iowa won the Division
Iowa will Play MSU for the BIG Crown

I have not disputed any of these because they are facts and Tangible
Talent is not some that is tangible it is pure opinion and speculation.

There is absolutely Nothing anyone on this earth can do to prove, without a doubt, the amount of an intangible object!

That's the equivalent of stating that the exact weight of a Unicorn is 365 lbs.

I read the entire thread and I didn't find any of your comments inflammatory or objectionable. Knowing as many Nebraska fans as I do, I just found that particular comment ironic. And existing talent in regards to players in the NFL is quantifiable, IMO. But as another poster noted: Who gives a rip? Talent doesn't win games. Football is the ultimate team sport. 11 players have to work together when on the field of play. If you have NFL Hall of Fame caliber talent at the skill positions, but powder puff girls along the O-line......how will that work out for you?
Anyway, I think you are being fairly objective.

 

[JLCHawk]

I have heard and read enough about the stats in the Iowa-Nebraska game about how Nebby should have won and it is time to remind people or discuss how football games unfold. All of you have read and heard this also.

Deace said it during the first few minutes of Jon's latest long podcast. The idea that Nebby outplayed Iowa. Dont these so called knowledgeable people realize that 4 turnovers and a stupid failed fade pattern on 4th and 1 at the Iowa 21 yard line is like a 5th turnover. Five turnovers to one makes the number of offensive plays and yardage comparison stupid because one team runs a bunch of plays, gains some yards, but then turns the ball over to waste all that game time and yardage. And then wham pow and Canzeri goes 29 and 68 yards for TDs on big plays. And Hesse gets the tip and pick six which is the equivalent of a 10 play 75 yard drive.

Iowa got the early lead and in the cold and wind they played fairly conservative.

Each game has its own charm and identity. The hawks talked about how they thougth they could force turnovers.

Nebby is an undisciplined team and they showed all year they have a tendency to meltdown. Iowa is a well balanced team that doesnt make mistakes, I like how they kept running the ball and the beauty of it is those perfectly blocked runs that Canzeri scored on.

I remember listening to a Bob Cummings team go play USC at the Coliseum and the hawks had that great running game and rolled up over 400 yards but not once but twice fumbled inside the USC 5 yard line (one of which was ran back all the way for a TD) so as you know those turnovers turn out to mask wasted yards and wasted game time. Iowa lost that game to USC big time on the scoreboard.

How many of you thought Nebby outplayed Iowa? And in what objective ways do you say that?

Boy you brought back some old memories. I remember listening to that Iowa/USC game & Iowa just marching up & down the field against them. I always liked listening to Bob's TV show. So many times when he was asked about the next game, he would say "We have to go play with reckless abandon." I always liked Bob Commings, just wasn't ready to be a Big Ten Head Coach.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

Tommy Frazier ain't walking through that door!

 

[ApexHunter]

Exactly. We had 250 yards of offense, almost 100 of it which came on 2 plays. You can't count on the lightning strikes, so the inability to sustain drives is very concerning. Armstrong makes very bad decisions throwing the football and not all of them were something that we necessarily forced (the long one to Mabin and the very first one come to mind)...so we were fortunate in that regard.

I think this is a much more interesting topic of discussion. I was thinking about this recently. Because of the style of offense that Iowa plays and because they have held the lead for a majority of the time in their games and even when they haven't, it's been a) fairly early in the game and b) within a score (maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't think they've been down by more than 7 or possibly less?). How comfortable are you guys with a scenario where Sparty (or some future opponent in either CFP or Bowl game) manages to get more than a one score lead in the middle to late portion of the 2nd half? Can the offense adjust to try to attack more downfield and get quick scores / more possessions, given that they haven't had to? We have seen JC take it to the house, but I don't think that is something you can necessarily dial up and expect to happen like you can with some sort of vertical passing game that takes the top off of the defense. Is this a concern or non-issue?

 

[ApexHunter]

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

BTW, this is one of my all-time favorite quotes. My daughter has heard it a couple of hundred times in the past 2 years

 

[smac07]

I read the entire thread and I didn't find any of your comments inflammatory or objectionable. Knowing as many Nebraska fans as I do, I just found that particular comment ironic. And existing talent in regards to players in the NFL is quantifiable, IMO. But as another poster noted: Who gives a rip? Talent doesn't win games. Football is the ultimate team sport. 11 players have to work together when on the field of play. If you have NFL Hall of Fame caliber talent at the skill positions, but powder puff girls along the O-line......how will that work out for you?
Anyway, I think you are being fairly objective.

Well you are absolutely correct, and in part I must take accountability for continuing the discussion about TALENT and it is completely moot. Also your Existing Talent in NFL is absolutely quantifiable, and I hope you can understand when I say along with the rest of your post, that NFL players playing or drafted (two totally different stats) is not a measure of for an entire team. The most important is that 11 players work together.

So it can be agreed upon that a teams Talent is not hinged upon a few individuals, which is why NFL numbers when equating to a College Team has no real relevance other than perceived. Because we all know 1 player doesn't make a team!

I certainly wasn't expecting anyone to come out and say, OK I agree with you, but I guess I just wanted to show my train of logic because I didn't want to be assumed to be a Homer with no cognitive function other than to disagree with anyone else due to their team loyalties. I have enjoyed these topics on HN and look forward to the interactions! Nothing wrong with a stimulating discussion, I think it is a lost art, being able to discuss something without reverting to name calling, or violence!

 

[smac07]

I think this is a much more interesting topic of discussion. I was thinking about this recently. Because of the style of offense that Iowa plays and because they have held the lead for a majority of the time in their games and even when they haven't, it's been a) fairly early in the game and b) within a score (maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't think they've been down by more than 7 or possibly less?). How comfortable are you guys with a scenario where Sparty (or some future opponent in either CFP or Bowl game) manages to get more than a one score lead in the middle to late portion of the 2nd half? Can the offense adjust to try to attack more downfield and get quick scores / more possessions, given that they haven't had to? We have seen JC take it to the house, but I don't think that is something you can necessarily dial up and expect to happen like you can with some sort of vertical passing game that takes the top off of the defense. Is this a concern or non-issue?

Well I think based upon Iowa's tendency of not making mistakes, that you won't really have to worry about it. The Iowa offense wont have to put up big numbers it just has to be efficient and score when they do get the ball. If they can have long Drives that score some manor of points, and the defense basically absorbs long sustained drives where the opponent scores or FG. I think Iowa grinds the clock and as long as they do that will keep the need to score a ton of points negligible.

 

[hwk23]

I think this is a much more interesting topic of discussion. I was thinking about this recently. Because of the style of offense that Iowa plays and because they have held the lead for a majority of the time in their games and even when they haven't, it's been a) fairly early in the game and b) within a score (maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't think they've been down by more than 7 or possibly less?). How comfortable are you guys with a scenario where Sparty (or some future opponent in either CFP or Bowl game) manages to get more than a one score lead in the middle to late portion of the 2nd half? Can the offense adjust to try to attack more downfield and get quick scores / more possessions, given that they haven't had to? We have seen JC take it to the house, but I don't think that is something you can necessarily dial up and expect to happen like you can with some sort of vertical passing game that takes the top off of the defense. Is this a concern or non-issue?

CJ Beathard was brought in in the 2nd half of the Pitt game in 2014 when we were trailing 17-7. He played perfectly and brought us back to win that game. He's 13-0 as a starter and that's not counting the Pitt save. So if we do get behind, CJ has the talent to bring us back. We've only trailed for 4 minutes in the 2nd half this season.

 

[deanvogs]

You are jumping in late and clearly haven't read a thing other than that.

I have stated many times the past is the past and have attempted in any situation to not use it unless it had any relevance. YOUR Statement is Inaccurate simply because Programs are about History.

I have not disagreed that This Iowa team of this season is Perfect, as their record shows, I have said that many times on this site as well.

More to the point though the Question was: Is 2015 IOWA more talented than 2015 NEBRASKA :
Facts are:
Iowa Beat Nebraska in 1 game
Iowa Placed X amount of players on the All BIG Team
Iowa won the Division
Iowa will Play MSU for the BIG Crown

I have not disputed any of these because they are facts and Tangible
Talent is not some that is tangible it is pure opinion and speculation.

There is absolutely Nothing anyone on this earth can do to prove, without a doubt, the amount of an intangible object!

That's the equivalent of stating that the exact weight of a Unicorn is 365 lbs.

What I and other posters are trying to give you tangible, and quantifiable metrics which to use, but you discard those and say, welp Unicorns exist, and you can't prove the DON'T exist, therefore it isn't tangible that they don't exist. I mean the more talented teams GENERALLY produce more all conference players, and more NFL players (See 'Bama, OSU, etc.). The more talented teams GENERALLY win the games (See 'Bama, OSU, MSU, Iowa's records).

How seriously would you take someone if they told you the 1997 5-6 Colorado football team was more talented than the Huskers than year? I mean Nebraska did only beat Colorado 27-24 that year, so it was closer than it should be, so therefore Colorado was better???? I mean they started the season ranked #8, but went 5-6, but they were "more talented" than the 13-0 Huskers.

 

[deanvogs]

I absolutely understood which is why I said that's correct Nebraska DIDN'T. (Stating you were correct) but I guessed you were to busy to notice that I conceded that fact to you?

And Again you use Opinions? I stated It can be argued that Nebraska has equal or potentially slightly greater Talent as a team than Iowa, for the simple Fact that with 4 (5) turnovers and Iowa didn't have a 4 or 5 TD lead. I FEEL that could be argued.

You Know who wouldn't disagree? MSU. Even with Nebraska's god awful coaching, play calling, and execution Nebraska won. All Conference teams are chosen based on opinion by coaches, that's fantastic! Good for those players to make it, but that does not prove that player is more talented at all.

Iowa scored 7 points off 5 Nebraska turnovers. Nebraska scored 7 points off 1 Iowa turnover.

Iowa played a God awful game themselves and still had a comfortable win. That is what good teams do though, they find ways to win even when they play awful.

 

[expos1994]

As A Husker fan and someone who would like to think that I can look at a situation and give it as much of an Unbiased breakdown as possible my thoughts are as follows:

AS POSTED PREVIOUSLY:

No Idea why anyone looks at this game as anything but what happened. I feel a Logical individual can plainly see that Stats don't show if a team won or lost. The score does, the Huskers could have put up 1000 yards of offense and held Iowa to 20. Who cares, if that 1000 yards amounted to less points than what the 20 yards did. Iowa is a talented team, are they More talented than the Nebraska team, well maybe maybe not.
Iowa as a team is successful not because of being more talented than their opponents, refute me all you want, they have been so successful because they have excelled at being simplistic, and fundamental. They have been the picture of Efficient, you don't need outrageous stats to win football games. This is the main reason I feel the mainstream media has yet to be impressed by them, which plays to the Hawks favor heavily once in a game.

Don't read this and think that this view is demeaning at all to the Hawks as that is not my intent, make no mistake I actually think the Talent level tilts in Huskers favor as is evidence that they were able to remain in the game. Individual talent though doesn't win consistently, it will keep you in the game and then ever so often win one for you. The second someone starts playing the If's and buts game when talking about the outcome of a game they have definitely dipped into denial/embarrassment mitigation.
As a Husker fan I myself get sick of BS excuses and such.

Nebraska may have more talent as far as how high they can jump and how fast they can run... but when it comes to which team has the better football players... I give that to Iowa.

Iowa creates great football players.

 

[ChosenChildren]

Forest Evashevski, a great football mind and a great coach at Iowa, had this to say about turnovers: Each turnover on average costs your team 50 yards of field position. Nebraska's 5 turnovers cost them at least 250 yards. Always factor that into your yardage statistics. Using that metric, Nebby's 5 turnovers (I'm counting the horrific 4th and 1 fade call) reduce Nebby's net yardage to 183 yards; Iowa's one turnover results in total net yardage of 200 yards. Makes sense, doesn't it??