Put that coffee down. Better recruiting is NOT the answer.

[mysteron]

Worse recruiting must be the answer. All 3 Lbers, the R De and RB. None of those should be starting or even playing at the B10 level. thats 5 of 22 starters that are totally inadequate by any definition.

Question for you. What would have to happen for us to bring in the recruits you deem necessary?

 

[deanvogs]

Compare and contrast the 2 depth Charts and the results:

The 2009 offense only avg. 114 YPG (3.27 YPC) rushing with those 4* linemen (I was surprised on this one).
The 2014 offense avg. 163 YPG (4.12 YPC) rushing with a FB playing RB

The 2009 offense avg 222 YPG (7.4 YPA) passing in 2009
The 2014 offense avg 237 YPG (7.1 YPA) passing in 2014

Looking at these results and I'm beginning to question why I'm so pizzed off at GD. He has taken what has been given him (a FB at RB) and has done more with less. Look at all the 4* players on that 2009 offense.....nearly 1/2 the players were 4* kids, and the ones that were 3* had awesome offers for the most part. It also shows me that the running schemes we employ are NOT getting it done. With 4* kids, future NFL players up and down that 2009 roster, and we avg. 3.27 YPC that is pathetic.

I'm not sure what to think about Phil Parker. The D was good last year, but he just didn't have the horses to compete this year. Yet it wasn't like Norm has 4* kids all though the LB and secondary. We had some good DL for sure, but the LB and secondary were developed out of under recruited kids.

2009 Depth Chart
QB - Ricky Stanzi (3*) Miami (OH) Purdue
RB - Brandon Wheger (4*)/Robinson (2*)
FB - Brett Morse (2* TE) C. Michigan, W. Michigan
WR - DJK (3*) Michigan, UNC, West Virginia
TE - Tony Moeaki (4*) Nebraska, ND, Oregon, Tenn., UCLA
RT - Kyle Calloway (3*) Arizona, Kansas, Missouri
RG - Julian Vandervelde (3*) Stanford, Toledo, Ball St. C. Michigan
C - Rafeal Eubanks (4*) Maryland, Miami, Minny, ND, OU, Wisconsin
LG - Dace Richardson (4*) Michigan, MSU, Nebraska, Tenn., USC, Wisconsin
LT - Bryan Bulaga (4*) Michigan, MSU, Nebraska, Purdue, Wisconsin
SE - Marvin McNutt (3* QB) Indiana, Kansas, KSU, Minny, Missouri, Nebraska, Wisconsin


DE - Adrain Clayborn (4*) Nebraska, MSU, Missouri, Texas Tech, Ill., Indiana
DT - Karl Klug (2*) None
DT - Christian Ballard (4* TE) Arizona, Georgia, KU, KSU, MIchigan, OU, UCLA
DE - Broderick Binns (3* DE) Missouri, Minny, ISU, KSU, Colorado, Arizona St.
LB - AJ Edds (3* TE) Purdue, GT
MLB - Pat Angerer (3*) N. Ill., ISU, Indiana
LB - Jeremiha Hunter (4*) Uconn, Florida, Penn St., Tennessee
CB - Amari Spievey (2*) Rutgers, Wisconsin
CB - Shaun Prater (3*) Ohio, ISU, Nebraska
SS - Tyler Sash (3* ATH) ISU
FS - Brett Greenwood (Walkon)



Jan Depth Chart for 2015

QB - Beathard (3 stars) Ole' Miss, SMU, Tulane
RB - Canzeri (2 Stars) UConn, Indiana, Villanova
FB - Plewa (No Stars/Walk On) No Scholarship Offers
WR - VandeBerg (2 Stars) Only Scholarship Offer Was Iowa
TE - Krieger-Coble (3 Stars) Iowa State
RT - Boettger (3 Stars) Only Scholarship Offer Was Iowa
RG - Walsh (4 Stars) Arizona, Michigan, Mich. St., Nebraska, Tennessee, UCLA, USC, Wisconsin
C - Blythe (4 Stars) Iowa St., Kansas St. Wisconsin, Stanford
LG - Welsh (3 Stars) Kentucky, Miami, Louisville, West Virginia
LT - Myers (No Stars) No Scholarship Offers
SE - Smith (3 Stars) UConn, Temple

DE - Meier (2 Stars) UNI, South Dakota
DT - J. Johnson (4 Stars) Arizona, Michigan, Mich St., Wisconsin, Tennessee
DT - Bazata (3 Stars) South Dakota St.
DE - Ott (3 Stars) Kansas State, N. Dakota St.
OLB - Niemann (2 Stars) N. Illinois, E. Mich, Illinois St.
MLB - Jewell (2 Stars) UNI
WLB - Bower (2 Stars) UNI
CB - Mabin (3 Stars) Jacksonville St., Tulane
CB - King (3 Stars) Wisconsin, Indiana, Ball St., N. Illinois, Buffalo, W. Mich, E. Mich, C. Mich
SS - Taylor (3 Stars) Georgia Tech, UMass, Temple
FS - Lomax (3 Stars) Louisville, Maryland, New Mexico, Standford, Virginia








Oh, and I know. TL, DR


​

​

 

[hawkeyebob62]

A very fair question. And I respect that others agree with you.

The reason is because everything is a hypothetical at this point. Sokol and Law were chased off when the Captain made the decision to give them little playing time. Hell, Sokol showed well in spring games and at La Tech. Make he and CJ battle it out in 2013 and maybe he wins the starting job and the depth chart reads Sokol/CJ in 2014. I bet that change gets us at least 1 more win in 2014. How does 8-5 sound compared to 7-6? Sounds pretty good doesn't it.

Regarding Law. I think scout had him as a 4 star. We didn't see enough of him to find out what he could do. And I don't trust the coache to recognize why he was a 4-star.

As for your take that, "Maybe the guys aren't ready to take the field." Well, how many people said that about CJ this year and Weinke in 2012? My point is, when you're losing to the Iowa States on your schedule you're no longer playing for "tomorrow". Canzeri played as a true freshman in a bowl game and looked good. But then Weisman locked down the position. Are you saying we didn't see enough of Canzeri's speed to give him more touches? People said he had fumbelitis. But they also ignore his ability to take it to the house. Wadley and Parker also have that ability. Does Weisman? And let's not pretend Weisman never made mistakes or fumbled.

In the end what you're doing is defending the status quo. As already stated, the status quo got us a worse record than Nebraska every year we played them. That's the same Nebraska we all ridicule as an irrelevant joke. So let me ask you, if they're an irrelevant joke, what does that make us?

Missed all the stuff about Nico Law's arrest last summer, huh? If that's what you mean by "chasing him off", yeah, guess you're right...

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Compare and contrast the 2 depth Charts and the results:

The 2009 offense only avg. 114 YPG (3.27 YPC) rushing with those 4* linemen (I was surprised on this one).
The 2014 offense avg. 163 YPG (4.12 YPC) rushing with a FB playing RB

The 2009 offense avg 222 YPG (7.4 YPA) passing in 2009
The 2014 offense avg 237 YPG (7.1 YPA) passing in 2014

Looking at these results and I'm beginning to question why I'm so pizzed off at GD. He has taken what has been given him (a FB at RB) and has done more with less. Look at all the 4* players on that 2009 offense.....nearly 1/2 the players were 4* kids, and the ones that were 3* had awesome offers for the most part. It also shows me that the running schemes we employ are NOT getting it done. With 4* kids, future NFL players up and down that 2009 roster, and we avg. 3.27 YPC that is pathetic.

I'm not sure what to think about Phil Parker. The D was good last year, but he just didn't have the horses to compete this year. Yet it wasn't like Norm has 4* kids all though the LB and secondary. We had some good DL for sure, but the LB and secondary were developed out of under recruited kids.

2009 Depth Chart
QB - Ricky Stanzi (3*) Miami (OH) Purdue
RB - Brandon Wheger (4*)/Robinson (2*)
FB - Brett Morse (2* TE) C. Michigan, W. Michigan
WR - DJK (3*) Michigan, UNC, West Virginia
TE - Tony Moeaki (4*) Nebraska, ND, Oregon, Tenn., UCLA
RT - Kyle Calloway (3*) Arizona, Kansas, Missouri
RG - Julian Vandervelde (3*) Stanford, Toledo, Ball St. C. Michigan
C - Rafeal Eubanks (4*) Maryland, Miami, Minny, ND, OU, Wisconsin
LG - Dace Richardson (4*) Michigan, MSU, Nebraska, Tenn., USC, Wisconsin
LT - Bryan Bulaga (4*) Michigan, MSU, Nebraska, Purdue, Wisconsin
SE - Marvin McNutt (3* QB) Indiana, Kansas, KSU, Minny, Missouri, Nebraska, Wisconsin


DE - Adrain Clayborn (4*) Nebraska, MSU, Missouri, Texas Tech, Ill., Indiana
DT - Karl Klug (2*) None
DT - Christian Ballard (4* TE) Arizona, Georgia, KU, KSU, MIchigan, OU, UCLA
DE - Broderick Binns (3* DE) Missouri, Minny, ISU, KSU, Colorado, Arizona St.
LB - AJ Edds (3* TE) Purdue, GT
MLB - Pat Angerer (3*) N. Ill., ISU, Indiana
LB - Jeremiha Hunter (4*) Uconn, Florida, Penn St., Tennessee
CB - Amari Spievey (2*) Rutgers, Wisconsin
CB - Shaun Prater (3*) Ohio, ISU, Nebraska
SS - Tyler Sash (3* ATH) ISU
FS - Brett Greenwood (Walkon)



Jan Depth Chart for 2015

QB - Beathard (3 stars) Ole' Miss, SMU, Tulane
RB - Canzeri (2 Stars) UConn, Indiana, Villanova
FB - Plewa (No Stars/Walk On) No Scholarship Offers
WR - VandeBerg (2 Stars) Only Scholarship Offer Was Iowa
TE - Krieger-Coble (3 Stars) Iowa State
RT - Boettger (3 Stars) Only Scholarship Offer Was Iowa
RG - Walsh (4 Stars) Arizona, Michigan, Mich. St., Nebraska, Tennessee, UCLA, USC, Wisconsin
C - Blythe (4 Stars) Iowa St., Kansas St. Wisconsin, Stanford
LG - Welsh (3 Stars) Kentucky, Miami, Louisville, West Virginia
LT - Myers (No Stars) No Scholarship Offers
SE - Smith (3 Stars) UConn, Temple

DE - Meier (2 Stars) UNI, South Dakota
DT - J. Johnson (4 Stars) Arizona, Michigan, Mich St., Wisconsin, Tennessee
DT - Bazata (3 Stars) South Dakota St.
DE - Ott (3 Stars) Kansas State, N. Dakota St.
OLB - Niemann (2 Stars) N. Illinois, E. Mich, Illinois St.
MLB - Jewell (2 Stars) UNI
WLB - Bower (2 Stars) UNI
CB - Mabin (3 Stars) Jacksonville St., Tulane
CB - King (3 Stars) Wisconsin, Indiana, Ball St., N. Illinois, Buffalo, W. Mich, E. Mich, C. Mich
SS - Taylor (3 Stars) Georgia Tech, UMass, Temple
FS - Lomax (3 Stars) Louisville, Maryland, New Mexico, Standford, Virginia








Oh, and I know. TL, DR


​

​

It may have been "tl" but it's an excellent post. And while GD numbers, by yardage, look better than 2009, look at schemes, play calls, etc. While it IS KF who calls the shots, how often,m with KOK, did you see the kind of crap we have seen the last three seasons?

Conversely, there is no doubt that defenses were better under Norm, but to defend Phil, this year was a "green" year in terms of LB experience. I think some of the complaints against Alston, though understandable, were born out of him trying to cover all 3 positions himself. Admirable, maybe, but Norm's D, and by extension Phil's D, is predicated on assignment/stay in your lane execution. Over-commit/over-pursue leads to under-perform. That simple.

 

[knighthawk13]

I don't get the Nico Law love. When he played, he was lost. Keeping Anthony Gair behind Lomax is a head scratcher, however.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

It may have been "tl" but it's an excellent post. And while GD numbers, by yardage, look better than 2009, look at schemes, play calls, etc. While it IS KF who calls the shots, how often,m with KOK, did you see the kind of crap we have seen the last three seasons?

Conversely, there is no doubt that defenses were better under Norm, but to defend Phil, this year was a "green" year in terms of LB experience. I think some of the complaints against Alston, though understandable, were born out of him trying to cover all 3 positions himself. Admirable, maybe, but Norm's D, and by extension Phil's D, is predicated on assignment/stay in your lane execution. Over-commit/over-pursue leads to under-perform. That simple.

I am not a KOK hater at all but you and others wax poetically like his offenses were a thing a beauty. Attending games I saw many stupid things that came in a variety of forms when he was here. The complaints were just as numerous when KOK was here as they are now with GD.

There is one common denominator who has been in the offensive meeting rooms, determines personnel, is involved in every single game plan and who has veto power on every single play call. Yes KF. Our OC's have never had enough control and have been hamstrung by the head coach.

Stop covering for him because you are a paid cheerleader. No one is buying what you are selling.

 

[racerhawk]

The OP makes some good points, but OF COURSE talent is an issue at Iowa, especially this year. Our LBs couldn't start at most programs. Overall talent level absolutely matters, and outside of some linemen, Iowa just doesn't have the talent.

That's not to dismiss the massive coaching fail we've seen this year. Not at all. However, to talk about Sally Mason (stupid) or just in game coaching as the only issues, is really really dumb.

Talent matters a LOT. Watch the game Monday night. You can pretty much track recruiting rankings to on the field results every year. Iowa struggles to be in the top 50 in recruiting, and has similar results on the field.

...takes sip of coffee.

 

[deanvogs]

I am not a KOK hater at all but you and others wax poetically like his offenses were a thing a beauty. Attending games I saw many stupid things that came in a variety of forms when he was here. The complaints were just as numerous when KOK was here as they are now with GD.

There is one common denominator who has been in the offensive meeting rooms, determines personnel, is involved in every single game plan and who has veto power on every single play call. Yes KF. Our OC's have never had enough control and have been hamstrung by the head coach.

Stop covering for him because you are a paid cheerleader. No one is buying what you are selling.

Good point about KOK. I was never a "hater" on him, but it has always felt (since 2004 anyway) that we should have always been better on O. The one exception in the last decade was when we had an NFL RB. Maybe that is the simple answer, NFL RB = Good.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Compare and contrast the 2 depth Charts and the results:The 2009 offense only avg. 114 YPG (3.27 YPC) rushing with those 4* linemen (I was surprised on this one). The 2014 offense avg. 163 YPG (4.12 YPC) rushing with a FB playing RBThe 2009 offense avg 222 YPG (7.4 YPA) passing in 2009The 2014 offense avg 237 YPG (7.1 YPA) passing in 2014Looking at these results and I'm beginning to question why I'm so pizzed off at GD. He has taken what has been given him (a FB at RB) and has done more with less. Look at all the 4* players on that 2009 offense.....nearly 1/2 the players were 4* kids, and the ones that were 3* had awesome offers for the most part. It also shows me that the running schemes we employ are NOT getting it done. With 4* kids, future NFL players up and down that 2009 roster, and we avg. 3.27 YPC that is pathetic. I'm not sure what to think about Phil Parker. The D was good last year, but he just didn't have the horses to compete this year. Yet it wasn't like Norm has 4* kids all though the LB and secondary. We had some good DL for sure, but the LB and secondary were developed out of under recruited kids. 2009 Depth ChartQB - Ricky Stanzi (3*) Miami (OH) PurdueRB - Brandon Wheger (4*)/Robinson (2*)FB - Brett Morse (2* TE) C. Michigan, W. MichiganWR - DJK (3*) Michigan, UNC, West VirginiaTE - Tony Moeaki (4*) Nebraska, ND, Oregon, Tenn., UCLART - Kyle Calloway (3*) Arizona, Kansas, MissouriRG - Julian Vandervelde (3*) Stanford, Toledo, Ball St. C. MichiganC - Rafeal Eubanks (4*) Maryland, Miami, Minny, ND, OU, WisconsinLG - Dace Richardson (4*) Michigan, MSU, Nebraska, Tenn., USC, WisconsinLT - Bryan Bulaga (4*) Michigan, MSU, Nebraska, Purdue, WisconsinSE - Marvin McNutt (3* QB) Indiana, Kansas, KSU, Minny, Missouri, Nebraska, WisconsinDE - Adrain Clayborn (4*) Nebraska, MSU, Missouri, Texas Tech, Ill., IndianaDT - Karl Klug (2*) NoneDT - Christian Ballard (4* TE) Arizona, Georgia, KU, KSU, MIchigan, OU, UCLADE - Broderick Binns (3* DE) Missouri, Minny, ISU, KSU, Colorado, Arizona St.LB - AJ Edds (3* TE) Purdue, GTMLB - Pat Angerer (3*) N. Ill., ISU, IndianaLB - Jeremiha Hunter (4*) Uconn, Florida, Penn St., TennesseeCB - Amari Spievey (2*) Rutgers, WisconsinCB - Shaun Prater (3*) Ohio, ISU, Nebraska SS - Tyler Sash (3* ATH) ISUFS - Brett Greenwood (Walkon)Jan Depth Chart for 2015

QB - Beathard (3 stars) Ole' Miss, SMU, TulaneRB - Canzeri (2 Stars) UConn, Indiana, VillanovaFB - Plewa (No Stars/Walk On) No Scholarship OffersWR - VandeBerg (2 Stars) Only Scholarship Offer Was IowaTE - Krieger-Coble (3 Stars) Iowa StateRT - Boettger (3 Stars) Only Scholarship Offer Was IowaRG - Walsh (4 Stars) Arizona, Michigan, Mich. St., Nebraska, Tennessee, UCLA, USC, WisconsinC - Blythe (4 Stars) Iowa St., Kansas St. Wisconsin, StanfordLG - Welsh (3 Stars) Kentucky, Miami, Louisville, West VirginiaLT - Myers (No Stars) No Scholarship OffersSE - Smith (3 Stars) UConn, TempleDE - Meier (2 Stars) UNI, South DakotaDT - J. Johnson (4 Stars) Arizona, Michigan, Mich St., Wisconsin, TennesseeDT - Bazata (3 Stars) South Dakota St. DE - Ott (3 Stars) Kansas State, N. Dakota St.OLB - Niemann (2 Stars) N. Illinois, E. Mich, Illinois St.MLB - Jewell (2 Stars) UNIWLB - Bower (2 Stars) UNICB - Mabin (3 Stars) Jacksonville St., TulaneCB - King (3 Stars) Wisconsin, Indiana, Ball St., N. Illinois, Buffalo, W. Mich, E. Mich, C. MichSS - Taylor (3 Stars) Georgia Tech, UMass, TempleFS - Lomax (3 Stars) Louisville, Maryland, New Mexico, Standford, VirginiaOh, and I know. TL, DR ​

GD isn't the problem. kfootball is the problem. I would have to believe that any self respecting OC would have fielded a line up of Willies, T. Smith, Powell and CJ. I think GD would have loved to have played the vertical passing game as though the LOS was 15 or more yards further down field. We could have had a high powered offense that approached 40 per game.

Not using those kids as starters, with the exception of T. Smith was a wasted opportunity that cost us both in wins and in recruiting. If folk don't think other coaches aren't going to tell the WR''s we're recruiting their version of the DW story, then they don't understand how recruiting works.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Missed all the stuff about Nico Law's arrest last summer, huh? If that's what you mean by "chasing him off", yeah, guess you're right...

But why didn't Law play in front of Tanner Miller? I do disagree with the OP that it isn't the recruiting. As others have said, it is both recruiting and coaching; it's both. Our coach has a system where he relies on players to stick around for 4 seasons to wait their turn to start as a RS JR or as a SR. If Law wasn't good enough to play in front of Miller, then he probably wouldn't have been better in 2014. And if he would have been better than Miller in 2014, then chances are he was better, also, in 2014.

 

[mysteron]

I don't get the Nico Law love. When he played, he was lost. Keeping Anthony Gair behind Lomax is a head scratcher, however.

We're making the same point just using different names. Recruiting doesn't matter because Kirk plays kids out of position or not at all. That's what this thread is about.

 

[MoseSchrute]

It may have been "tl" but it's an excellent post. And while GD numbers, by yardage, look better than 2009, look at schemes, play calls, etc. While it IS KF who calls the shots, how often,m with KOK, did you see the kind of crap we have seen the last three seasons?

Conversely, there is no doubt that defenses were better under Norm, but to defend Phil, this year was a "green" year in terms of LB experience. I think some of the complaints against Alston, though understandable, were born out of him trying to cover all 3 positions himself. Admirable, maybe, but Norm's D, and by extension Phil's D, is predicated on assignment/stay in your lane execution. Over-commit/over-pursue leads to under-perform. That simple.

I saw plenty of crap with KOK.

 

[thawks1]

To be a good coach you HAVE to recruit good. We have had too many coaches who are average coaches- (average recruiters) that is why KF has been replacing coaches the last few years. Rigth now were paying the price for bad recruiting in 10, 11 and 12. It wil be another year mabe 2 to fill the roster backup.

 

[Caddy]

To be a good coach you HAVE to recruit good. We have had too many coaches who are average coaches- (average recruiters) that is why KF has been replacing coaches the last few years. Rigth now were paying the price for bad recruiting in 10, 11 and 12. It wil be another year mabe 2 to fill the roster backup.

I agree to be a good coach you have to recruit, and recruit very well. Its probably the most important thing. Especially when gameday coaching is as bad as it is in Iowa City. It will be longer than a year or two before the roster is filled back up. Last year's recruiting class was bad, and this year's class is even worse. That's what is so frustrating, there is no help coming, and things are trending downward.

 

[RocknRollface]

I agree to be a good coach you have to recruit, and recruit very well. Its probably the most important thing. Especially when gameday coaching is as bad as it is in Iowa City. It will be longer than a year or two before the roster is filled back up. Last year's recruiting class was bad, and this year's class is even worse. That's what is so frustrating, there is no help coming, and things are trending downward.

This is why they needed to fire him now.

At this point he simply is not going to be able to turn this around.We have a two deep full of walkons and guys with no other major offers and even poorer recruits coming in.

combine that with a boring style, lack of fan enthusiasm and mediocre records and the talent level will bottom out soon and we will have slide all the way into irrelevance.

 

[HawkeyeMHA]

It may not be the entire answer, but it's a hell of a good place to start.