Keep defending poor recruiting. No excuse for it in what his 20th year? 9th or 11th in the conference, wow. There are many, many more examples of 2 stars that don't do anything than guys that develop into stars like Hock and Wadley. Both of which our wonderful staff didn't use enough anyway.
Pretty typical Ferentz Recruiting effort
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Keep defending poor recruiting. No excuse for it in what his 20th year? 9th or 11th in the conference, wow. There are many, many more examples of 2 stars that don't do anything than guys that develop into stars like Hock and Wadley. Both of which our wonderful staff didn't use enough anyway.
RobHowe
Administrator
How is Hockenson being underused?
Poor recruiting after posting the two of the higher rates classes of the Ferentz era? Despite the recruiting results of the ENTIRE history of Iowa football being the same thing?
You're smoking some good shit if you think Iowa simply jumps into the top 15 of the rankings by simply changing their tactics.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Many of the team's who consistently bring better ranked recruiting classes also consistently finish below us in B1G standings and go to lesser bowls, or no bowls. But since Ferentz is a clueless at coaching as he is at recruiting I guess he deserves no credit for that, either.
Wait, I think Maryland, I mean Indiana, err Nebraska, no Illinois are hiring a new coach again. Or should.
Nothing new to see here, folks. Caddy needs to go back to watching his marathon of Duckman reruns.
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Knight78
Well-Known Member
If you go to his 247 profile, you'll see he was unranked... in the state of Iowa. You're saying we should take an unranked running back with a questionable work ethic because he's in-state? How many on here have complained endlessly about the coaches doing just that? How many complained about 2-star recruits given scholarships? And you do realize that we signed 4-star Marcus Coker that year.
99topdawg
Well-Known Member
Because when he's double/triple covered, we don't throw into double/triple coverage often enough, but throw to the receiver they left open instead.
TulipCityHawk
Well-Known Member
Iowa is not an easy program to play in. I'm not saying other programs don't work hard, but Iowa is very demanding mentally and physically. Kirk and co. have a pretty good feel for which kids are going to thrive and which kids are going to not have what it takes. Complaints, transfers, egos, attitudes take a toll on culture, not to mention transfers can leave you short-handed.
Kirk puts a lot of care into protecting a tough, hard-nosed, and commited culture. You could argue some players over the years who didn't fully buy in to the culture didn't get rewarded with PT when they should have from a talent standpoint. At the same time, if players are rewarded who are doing their business at a level below your standard, you risk younger players feeling as if buying in to the work and culture isn't that important because player X didn't and he's getting his. It's a tricky line. Many coaches play the best talent at the expense of not backing up what they preach about commitment. In the long run that can bust you just as much as not giving as much PT to a talented kid who is not setting a good example.
At the same time, there have been many examples of guys who did things the right way but lost positions simple because they got beat out.
I would guess most coaches would handle things a bit differently if they knew it was their last year at a place versus being rooted for 10 years, when those things can bit you in the butt.
Kirk puts a lot of care into protecting a tough, hard-nosed, and commited culture. You could argue some players over the years who didn't fully buy in to the culture didn't get rewarded with PT when they should have from a talent standpoint. At the same time, if players are rewarded who are doing their business at a level below your standard, you risk younger players feeling as if buying in to the work and culture isn't that important because player X didn't and he's getting his. It's a tricky line. Many coaches play the best talent at the expense of not backing up what they preach about commitment. In the long run that can bust you just as much as not giving as much PT to a talented kid who is not setting a good example.
At the same time, there have been many examples of guys who did things the right way but lost positions simple because they got beat out.
I would guess most coaches would handle things a bit differently if they knew it was their last year at a place versus being rooted for 10 years, when those things can bit you in the butt.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
The people that think these rankings are absolute are just dumb. Saying Iowa is #9 in the conference like they can rank it like they could a W/L record is beyond delusional. Those recruiting services might have one service calling a kid a 4* and the other 2 calling him a 3*, it ain't some absolute.
After the top 20 in the recruiting rankings, there isn't a spits worth of difference between the next 30 teams for the most part. It is how your recruits play on the field that matter, not their star rankings.
After the top 20 in the recruiting rankings, there isn't a spits worth of difference between the next 30 teams for the most part. It is how your recruits play on the field that matter, not their star rankings.
It's as arbitrary as voting for the Heisman regionally is... I have a tough time understanding why all over society be it this or any popularity contest award you can think of we put so much stock into what others think. That's what it boils down to. We've gotten away from did you actually win something. Did you score more points than the other person? Now it's all this arbitrary crap. Like it matters if your recruiting class ranks 40th or 30th? As you said they have no way of differentiating between those. It may be easy to point out the top 5-10. But much further down... Not a chance. None of those folks putting those ratings together are risking anything WHEN (not if) they get it wrong.
When it comes to recruits some sites grade on what they can do day one. Some I think try grading on what they think they project to do down the road... Which is more along the lines of what coaches do. It's really tough to do that accurately it's a down right crap shoot frankly.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I remember either Brian or Kirk saying one time about the 2016 class that they felt they had signed a kid who would have been a 5* kid if he were from lets say Chicago and did the camp circuit. I'm pretty sure they were talking about Hockenson, and I think they were absolutely right.
The Iowa staff knows what they are looking for in a player, they can spot and evaluate talent 100x better than these recruiting services can. Does that mean all kids work out? Obviously no they don't, the Iowa coaches miss a lot on players, but at the same time they have proven that they hit way more than other staffs do.
That's just it. Developmental programs can't have too many swings and misses because what they are banking on is that within 2-3 sometimes 4 yrs they've developed players into being steady starters. And if we swing and miss on an entire class... Ouch. The programs that thrust a ton of kids in early are hoping is that their talent makes up for their inexperience. Football as talented as some players are is still a mans game and there's a difference between most kids that are 21-22 that have been in a college weight room program for 2 plus years compared to sometimes 17-19 yr olds that haven't. There's no short cuts for both having experience and time to mature
Adam
Well-Known Member
You want the entire offense to be based on Nate Stanley gunslinging? You're crazy man.
Adam
Well-Known Member
You're speaking to deaf ears I believe.
Lazersharpe
Well-Known Member
Some people just expect we can go get a 4 or 5 star recruit. It is no that easy. The states where a a lot of 4 and 5 star recruit are from are Florida, California, Texas, Ohio. Notice the distance these states are from Iowa. Distance is a major negative. Plus there are major colleges already established in all of these state. Iowa is not going to snap our fingers and get 4 and 5 star recruits.
You have to take kids and mold them into 4 and 5 star recruits. It is the only formula that will work in state like Iowa. Iowa State and Nebraska are trying it and how may coaches have they went through trying to make it work? Highly rated kids who have been told they are the best at everything, will not travel to a school like Iowa. I am glad you are wanting higher recruiting rankings, but be realistic about the situation.
You have to take kids and mold them into 4 and 5 star recruits. It is the only formula that will work in state like Iowa. Iowa State and Nebraska are trying it and how may coaches have they went through trying to make it work? Highly rated kids who have been told they are the best at everything, will not travel to a school like Iowa. I am glad you are wanting higher recruiting rankings, but be realistic about the situation.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
The Iowa staff can also spot and evaluate talent 100x better than some of the people who post on these boards.
Many who call for a change also, I believe, know deep down there's a good chance it won't be for the better. It's just that we live in a world of change and adjustment. People who have some knowledge of coaching, like Dave Wannstedt and Gerry DiNardo, believe that the message of a modern coach stops getting through to the players at about ten years. Then it's time for not necessarily a new coach, but a new voice, which necessitates hiring a new coach. Kirk has now doubled that length of tenure mentioned by Wannstedt and Di Nardo.
Adam
Well-Known Member
The 4 and 5 star kids from Iowa that leave are my only recruiting gripe. Ok that and WR.
I think this thread title is fair and I completely agree that recruiting rankings are overrated. I don't view this as a discussion on Iowa's signing day recruitment ranking, but rather on Iowa's recruiting in general.
Real football games (on the field) are all that counts. For this reason, I think the most important aspect of recruiting is developing a complete class of recruits (and not focusing on individuals). This is especially true for the pro-style system. This means that the team's greatest talent weakness will likely be their worst area of production. In general, this is something that Iowa does pretty well. For anyone that's played football, especially in college, you know the importance of depth and breadth across the class, from each position group and position. A football class with really good skill players, but no O Lineman... might struggle. Or the class with huge talent on defense, but no offense... will struggle.
A logical follow up question is: why can't Iowa try to aggressively change their weak areas into strengths, like at WR or with a more mobile QB that can open up the offense? For many fans my age, I think the best Iowa team we've seen had Brad Banks at QB. Why was he the last mobile QB we've had? As committed fans who care, these are not unfair questions to ask.
Wisconsin has done some great things as a program, to which Iowa should aspire. The pinnacle of their program in recent years, was with Russell Wilson. They transformed their team (dominant power running game, strong team defense) with a huge talent at QB. The result was a dominant team that should have competed for a national title. Why can't Iowa do this? Imagine this year's Iowa team (with our defense, with our TEs, OL, and running game)... and receivers like Oliver Martin and a David Bell type guy ? It's exciting. Or, imagine this Iowa team with a Russell Wilson like QB? That might be a stretch, but it's interesting to think about.
I'm satisfied with Iowa's recruiting, because I know what the staff can do and I trust their process. I fully expect guys like Dane Belton, Sebastian Castro, Ezra Miller, to be playing in the NFL someday. Because that's simply what happens at Iowa. But my point is this - why can't Iowa leverage their nationally recognized strengths (#1 producer of TEs, elite team Defense, strong O Line and power running game) for the recruitment of high level QBs and WRs, every couple of years? The WR argument is a bit tougher... it's harder to overcome that hurdle that Iowa WRs won't get enough touches. But what's holding us back from getting an elite QB prospect? You're not going to get the star QB recruit that wants to go win the Heisman at Oklahoma... But there's plenty of talent out there. And I think it should be an easy sales pitch.
Also, very excited about Padilla. He looks like as talented of a thrower as I've seen Iowa get in a long time.
Real football games (on the field) are all that counts. For this reason, I think the most important aspect of recruiting is developing a complete class of recruits (and not focusing on individuals). This is especially true for the pro-style system. This means that the team's greatest talent weakness will likely be their worst area of production. In general, this is something that Iowa does pretty well. For anyone that's played football, especially in college, you know the importance of depth and breadth across the class, from each position group and position. A football class with really good skill players, but no O Lineman... might struggle. Or the class with huge talent on defense, but no offense... will struggle.
A logical follow up question is: why can't Iowa try to aggressively change their weak areas into strengths, like at WR or with a more mobile QB that can open up the offense? For many fans my age, I think the best Iowa team we've seen had Brad Banks at QB. Why was he the last mobile QB we've had? As committed fans who care, these are not unfair questions to ask.
Wisconsin has done some great things as a program, to which Iowa should aspire. The pinnacle of their program in recent years, was with Russell Wilson. They transformed their team (dominant power running game, strong team defense) with a huge talent at QB. The result was a dominant team that should have competed for a national title. Why can't Iowa do this? Imagine this year's Iowa team (with our defense, with our TEs, OL, and running game)... and receivers like Oliver Martin and a David Bell type guy ? It's exciting. Or, imagine this Iowa team with a Russell Wilson like QB? That might be a stretch, but it's interesting to think about.
I'm satisfied with Iowa's recruiting, because I know what the staff can do and I trust their process. I fully expect guys like Dane Belton, Sebastian Castro, Ezra Miller, to be playing in the NFL someday. Because that's simply what happens at Iowa. But my point is this - why can't Iowa leverage their nationally recognized strengths (#1 producer of TEs, elite team Defense, strong O Line and power running game) for the recruitment of high level QBs and WRs, every couple of years? The WR argument is a bit tougher... it's harder to overcome that hurdle that Iowa WRs won't get enough touches. But what's holding us back from getting an elite QB prospect? You're not going to get the star QB recruit that wants to go win the Heisman at Oklahoma... But there's plenty of talent out there. And I think it should be an easy sales pitch.
Also, very excited about Padilla. He looks like as talented of a thrower as I've seen Iowa get in a long time.
pootspot
Well-Known Member
Petras and everyone sleeping on Hogan. That dude can sling it. I think he’s the one and hope he stays committed
