Positives re the KOK hire.

Thawki

Thawki

Well-Known Member
Maybe I missed this, so correct me if I did. I am thinking a lot of people might be complaining about KOK being back with the Hawkeyes. But think of it for a second. How did our QBs perform when O'Keefe was our OC? He had McCann, then Banks, Chandler, Tate, Christianson, Stanzi and Vandenberg. Look at the QB play with those guys. The only ones most reasonable fans would take issue with are McCann, JC and VB (under Davis, not KOK). McCann was early in the KF regime. Once we got it going again as a solid program there were only two seasons where the QB play was not pretty good. One was under JC, and many have believed that KOK was pushing for Stanzi over JC all along, certainly in Stanzi's sophomore year. Then in VB's senior year Davis was the OC.

It seems to me we should be able to reasonably expect some pretty darn good QB play going forward, while it seems like it was a real crapshoot with Davis, even though we had the talent. Am I being too much of a Pollyanna here, or do I make some good points?
 
All kind of good indicators in KOK's history of coaching QB's at Iowa. I for one am glad he is not OC, I don't want to revisit that but am glad he is back as QB coach. I always wonder what Vandenberg could have done without the GD thing, and also Mr Beathard. Both would have had better overall careers at Iowa had KOK been their coach.
 
He'll be a good qb coach I bet. The last few yrs he's gotten to be around Tannehill and some pretty good receivers at Miami. Their qb had a pretty solid year this year if I'm not mistaken. KOK might be the perfect mentor for our QBs and BF both. If anything KOK is overqualified for such a position. It's funny to me that when the BF hiring was being debated all the people that were saying how underqualified he is (I totally disagree with that) Yet being the best 'fit' and part of the circle of trust and all that it only made too much sense for both of them.
 
I like the fact of just having a QB coach. Over-qualified for sure.

Must mean he likes Iowa City living or he likes KF. Terrible choice for KF-Hers.
 
Just remember this, when Iowa has better players, they have a better team. Play calling isn't all that its cracked up to be.


Except 1997 and 2010
 
NCHawker said:
Just remember this, when Iowa has better players, they have a better team. Play calling isn't all that its cracked up to be.


Except 1997 and 2010
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To a degree, this is right. But, ask Falcon fan if they wouldn't have preferred a run from the 22 yard line to set up a FG instead of a pass call for a sack and another with a hold that then resulted in a punt instead of what would have been three crucial,points in the Super Bowl.
 
KOK coached some great QBs and offensive teams. To look more at reality, he's the guy who started KM over BB and couldn't teach BB he plays. He also for a long time played JC of RS driving us all nuts. And was the coach of Pick 6 Rick.....

He also oversaw some of the worst running games in Big Ten history.

As NC Hawker said, when Iowa has better players they have a better team.

2017 is impossible to predict. For sure it will be different.
 
Maybe KOK's return to Iowa will be like when Steve Jobs came back to Apple the 2nd time, and he will revolutionize college football. And maybe start wearing only black turtlenecks.
 
HawkGold said:
KOK coached some great QBs and offensive teams. To look more at reality, he's the guy who started KM over BB and couldn't teach BB he plays. He also for a long time played JC of RS driving us all nuts. And was the coach of Pick 6 Rick.....

He also oversaw some of the worst running games in Big Ten history.

As NC Hawker said, when Iowa has better players they have a better team.

2017 is impossible to predict. For sure it will be different.
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Gold, why so negative bro? Every player has their own pros and cons. The statistical facts highlight that KOK was more successful with the passing game then Davis. BF ran the run game the past 2 seasons. The run game has been the bright spot in our offense. We keep the guy who helped that happen. We then marry him with a more successful pass game coach. This should give us some hope that both the run game and pass game can get rolling at the same time. This would mean good things for the hawks.
 
Adam said:
Gold, why so negative bro? Every player has their own pros and cons. The statistical facts highlight that KOK was more successful with the passing game then Davis. BF ran the run game the past 2 seasons. The run game has been the bright spot in our offense. We keep the guy who helped that happen. We then marry him with a more successful pass game coach. This should give us some hope that both the run game and pass game can get rolling at the same time. This would mean good things for the hawks.
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I'm with ya. I'd say there's hope as opposed to if say Davis didn't retire and what we'd all be thinking then.
 
Adam said:
Gold, why so negative bro? Every player has their own pros and cons. The statistical facts highlight that KOK was more successful with the passing game then Davis. BF ran the run game the past 2 seasons. The run game has been the bright spot in our offense. We keep the guy who helped that happen. We then marry him with a more successful pass game coach. This should give us some hope that both the run game and pass game can get rolling at the same time. This would mean good things for the hawks.
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There are lot's of angles. I don't see it as negative. I was always OK with KOK. Not as OK with KF, but not completely sour on him either.

Realistically, the offense the past 2 years have been based on incredible efforts by 2 people. CJ and AW. 2015 wasn't far from being a disaster or a complete success. CJ made gutsy plays. This year, teams made him throw underneath with a more tight defense. That allowed AK to bust some, many on his own effort.

I think KOK will improve things, but it is not a guarantee as he also has had difficult times due to lack of talent (or back ups) and head coach restrictions. Overall I don't expect things to change much. KOK was a part of 2 really good years. Davis a part of 1 really good year during a lesser time period. Both struggled in other years, Davis of course more. KOK is not the OC though now.

I could go on with other things, but not directly related to the subject. I don't disrespect BF or KOK. I have some disrespect for KF and FM for that matter. Neither are terrible coaches. Neither are terrific coaches.

Under HF, LO, and TD, I admit it, I was a homer. They also had weaknesses, though one really proved them self at another place. I loved those coaches and their demeanor. Both FM and KF, when I'm ready to write them off...surprise me toward the positive. When I get positive, they go back to old bad habits.

With BF and KOK added, I'm not on board. I am watching with hopeful interest as with FM's improvements. (he still can't coach 1/2 court)
 
Fans are know different than live stock,they always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.Never satisfied with what they have.
 
I think KOK was brought back as nothing more than a safe guard for BF. BF has never called plays, so now he has someone to fall back on, or even step in during game situations if there's miscommunication or brain farts. I see Iowa's offense going back to the pre GDGD days. Playaction, Deep Crossing Patters, TE up the middle.

What I want to see is less predictability out of our formations. And play to our strengths. I don't know if KOK brings that, or if he can overcome the dreaded curse of QB's in Iowa system having less success the longer they're here.

Not that it's KOK problem, but I hope whoever our WR coach is, can make it so our WR don't drop so many damn passes
 
HawkGold said:
There are lot's of angles. I don't see it as negative. I was always OK with KOK. Not as OK with KF, but not completely sour on him either.

Realistically, the offense the past 2 years have been based on incredible efforts by 2 people. CJ and AW. 2015 wasn't far from being a disaster or a complete success. CJ made gutsy plays. This year, teams made him throw underneath with a more tight defense. That allowed AK to bust some, many on his own effort.

I think KOK will improve things, but it is not a guarantee as he also has had difficult times due to lack of talent (or back ups) and head coach restrictions. Overall I don't expect things to change much. KOK was a part of 2 really good years. Davis a part of 1 really good year during a lesser time period. Both struggled in other years, Davis of course more. KOK is not the OC though now.

I could go on with other things, but not directly related to the subject. I don't disrespect BF or KOK. I have some disrespect for KF and FM for that matter. Neither are terrible coaches. Neither are terrific coaches.

Under HF, LO, and TD, I admit it, I was a homer. They also had weaknesses, though one really proved them self at another place. I loved those coaches and their demeanor. Both FM and KF, when I'm ready to write them off...surprise me toward the positive. When I get positive, they go back to old bad habits.

With BF and KOK added, I'm not on board. I am watching with hopeful interest as with FM's improvements. (he still can't coach 1/2 court)
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I get the LO love but I don't quite connect to the TD love. IMO Fran and Davis are about the same coaching success wise. As for demeanor. There are not many "calm" basketball coaches these days. Tom Davis never coached a season for 2 Million dollars. If he had he might have been a little more fiery. Fran is bombastic during games, but always cordial and respectable off the court. Everyone involved with BTN always says how much they like Fran and how good of a guy he is. I think you should attend the next I club event that Fran attends. That way you can meet the man, talk to him, and then decide if you stick to your evaluation.

Side question. Do you ever scream at your TV when the hawks are screwing the pooch?
 
Adam said:
I get the LO love but I don't quite connect to the TD love. IMO Fran and Davis are about the same coaching success wise. As for demeanor. There are not many "calm" basketball coaches these days. Tom Davis never coached a season for 2 Million dollars. If he had he might have been a little more fiery. Fran is bombastic during games, but always cordial and respectable off the court. Everyone involved with BTN always says how much they like Fran and how good of a guy he is. I think you should attend the next I club event that Fran attends. That way you can meet the man, talk to him, and then decide if you stick to your evaluation.

Side question. Do you ever scream at your TV when the hawks are screwing the pooch?
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Not any more. When I was a kid, during a football game I jumped up on the counter where there was a large fish tank. Someone had moved the antique pitcher and I hit it. It slammed into the side of the fish tank and tropical fish were flowing out. I put my hand over the hole to no avail. I ran to the basement as my mom went hysterical. Soon the water was coming through the floor to where I was.

I think I became more calm about ball games after that.

My some what now cloudy vision of TD was that he was classy and rarely did they get blown out. When I coached, I loved the bounce pass into the middle which was a bread and butter of TD. TD was a great coach and a good, but not great recruiter. In some ways he was a less maddening KF?

Had an up close view of Fran once at an airport. He is human for sure. I was a guest once with an employer at a similar meeting like I club. One of the Big Ten's most rage control challenged coach is actually pretty personable and warm. On the court he looks like a serial killer.

Not sure the salaries have much to do with it. If I could make 2 mil in 1 year, I'd be set. I think there is so much coverage today.

I've been around people like Fran who eventually lose it. I personally think he behaves mostly because he doesn't want to jeopardize coaching his son. I think he will really struggle when that happens. I hope it doesn't end badly, but it might. I know rage all too well and he rages.

Few teams run and attack like Fran's. If he gets a point and a 1/2 court game, the Hawks will be tough.

About KOK, I think the Iowa football team will be very unpredictable for the foreseeable future. I could be very entertaining in many ways.

KF and BF remind me of my oldest son. Around his 16th birthday he called me stupid. I laughed at him which upset him to where he said..."What? What?" I said, let's define stupid. You are about to turn 16 and want to drive and you just called me stupid." The kid was so stubborn he didn't ask me about driving until he was almost 17. I wasn't going to bring THAT topic up just to see what he'd do. We talked everyday about many things but never that. We had/have a good relationship. BF and KF could also be fun.
 
HawkGold said:
Not any more. When I was a kid, during a football game I jumped up on the counter where there was a large fish tank. Someone had moved the antique pitcher and I hit it. It slammed into the side of the fish tank and tropical fish were flowing out. I put my hand over the hole to no avail. I ran to the basement as my mom went hysterical. Soon the water was coming through the floor to where I was.

I think I became more calm about ball games after that.

My some what now cloudy vision of TD was that he was classy and rarely did they get blown out. When I coached, I loved the bounce pass into the middle which was a bread and butter of TD. TD was a great coach and a good, but not great recruiter. In some ways he was a less maddening KF?

Had an up close view of Fran once at an airport. He is human for sure. I was a guest once with an employer at a similar meeting like I club. One of the Big Ten's most rage control challenged coach is actually pretty personable and warm. On the court he looks like a serial killer.

Not sure the salaries have much to do with it. If I could make 2 mil in 1 year, I'd be set. I think there is so much coverage today.

I've been around people like Fran who eventually lose it. I personally think he behaves mostly because he doesn't want to jeopardize coaching his son. I think he will really struggle when that happens. I hope it doesn't end badly, but it might. I know rage all too well and he rages.

Few teams run and attack like Fran's. If he gets a point and a 1/2 court game, the Hawks will be tough.

About KOK, I think the Iowa football team will be very unpredictable for the foreseeable future. I could be very entertaining in many ways.

KF and BF remind me of my oldest son. Around his 16th birthday he called me stupid. I laughed at him which upset him to where he said..."What? What?" I said, let's define stupid. You are about to turn 16 and want to drive and you just called me stupid." The kid was so stubborn he didn't ask me about driving until he was almost 17. I wasn't going to bring THAT topic up just to see what he'd do. We talked everyday about many things but never that. We had/have a good relationship. BF and KF could also be fun.
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As Iowa football fans know. Sometimes the calming hand at the top can subsequently neuter your players. I tend to care less about the coaches demeanor and more about the players demeanor. Thats why I wasnt an Alford hater, other then that he created the "chokeyes". If Fran was putting thugs out on the Iowa court then I would be outraged. Otherwise I can live and sometimes approve of his fits of rage. Bobby Knight was an on court lunatic, but his players responded. He managed to win and graduate decent people even in the face of his emotional control. If Fran keeps winning and keeps our program respectable. I could live with a slew of different interpersonal flaws.
 
HawkGold said:
KOK coached some great QBs and offensive teams. To look more at reality, he's the guy who started KM over BB and couldn't teach BB he plays. He also for a long time played JC of RS driving us all nuts. And was the coach of Pick 6 Rick.....
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Can you really say for sure that he was deciding who the starter was? I'm not so sure...

As for coaching Pick 6 Rick, that dude was unstoppable...and a helluva 'Merican. Much better than Senior Year Stanzi.
 
ShemHawk said:
Can you really say for sure that he was deciding who the starter was? I'm not so sure...

As for coaching Pick 6 Rick, that dude was unstoppable...and a helluva 'Merican. Much better than Senior Year Stanzi.
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Oh, no not at all do we know. But he was under KF that we do know. Stanzi was terrific and exciting (both ways).
 
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