Podcast - Phil Steele

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WinOneThisCentury

Well-Known Member
Just got around to listening to the podcast on Phil Steele's rankings on the coming season. Deace calling out Alabama as being a ridiculous choice for #3 in the preseason poll was, well, pretty ridiculous, to use his words. The basis for his argument was that they will be breaking in a new QB with very little experience in the tough SEC. Hmmm...let's see, when was the last time Alabama did that. Well, it was AJ McCarron about three years ago and they went 12-1 and won a National Championship. The other argument was that they lost a number of talented players to the NFL. Well, if you look at their recruiting classes, they bring in the top talent from HS every year at every position. I'm going to give Saban the benefit of the doubt and say he has a chance to live up to the ranking. If they were a fast paced, spread team with a dependence on stellar QB play, it may be a different story. The QB, ala McCarron's first year, is a game manager and just needs to make safe throws to move the chains and keep their bruising offensive line on the field. Their defense is where they win games with field position and creating turnovers. I'm not certain, but I believe Alabama has had a top 5 defense pretty much every year for the past 6 years. That recipe allows you to be a top 5 team year in and year out with the talent they bring in.

I hate Nick Saban as much as the next guy, but he's a great defensive football coach that knows how to win and use his talent.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
Just got around to listening to the podcast on Phil Steele's rankings on the coming season. Deace calling out Alabama as being a ridiculous choice for #3 in the preseason poll was, well, pretty ridiculous, to use his words. The basis for his argument was that they will be breaking in a new QB with very little experience in the tough SEC. Hmmm...let's see, when was the last time Alabama did that. Well, it was AJ McCarron about three years ago and they went 12-1 and won a National Championship. The other argument was that they lost a number of talented players to the NFL. Well, if you look at their recruiting classes, they bring in the top talent from HS every year at every position. I'm going to give Saban the benefit of the doubt and say he has a chance to live up to the ranking. If they were a fast paced, spread team with a dependence on stellar QB play, it may be a different story. The QB, ala McCarron's first year, is a game manager and just needs to make safe throws to move the chains and keep their bruising offensive line on the field. Their defense is where they win games with field position and creating turnovers. I'm not certain, but I believe Alabama has had a top 5 defense pretty much every year for the past 6 years. That recipe allows you to be a top 5 team year in and year out with the talent they bring in.

I hate Nick Saban as much as the next guy, but he's a great defensive football coach that knows how to win and use his talent.
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Saban's days at MSU and Miami (NFL) prove one thing: on a level playing field, he is just as average as any other guy on a level playing field. On a skewed playing field, he "wins the games he should". And while he may not lose to a directional Michigan, I can't see KF-coached team giving up a Kick 6 in your final regular season game with the CCG/BCS CG on the line.

But maybe that's just me...
 
I don't know if I'm buying Deace's logic either. My main reason is the easy schedule that Alabama has. They play a pathetic non con schedule of: A terrible WVU, Southern Miss, Florida Atlantic, and W. Carolina. In conference they get Florida (4 wins last year) A&M (Without $Manzel$), Miss St. and Auburn at home, and they have Arkansas and Tenn (two terrible teams) Ole Miss and LSU on the road (both OK teams)

Everyone thinks the SEC is the end all beat all, but that is seriously an easy SEC slate. Tenn, Arkansas are terrible, Miss St., Florida, A&M aren't that great, Ole Miss could be good, LSU lost a ton. Auburn is the only good team they play.

They have the 95th ranked schedule compared to Iowa's 85th ranked schedule, I don't see how they lose more than 2 games.
 
I suspect Deace has Bama in his Top 10..but not at three...I am guessing he won't have them in his Final Four.
 
Alabama is a media favorite albeit for a good reason. But this year they may be over rated. If they were playing in the B10 or Big 12 they would still power through, but not in the SEC.

Deuce has a good argument for why Alabama is over rated. I don't think taking apart one part of the argument makes your point. In addition to a new starting QB, who was a backup at his old school, the other personnel issues will mean some growing pains. Particularly when they get into the conference schedule.
 
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hawkeyebob62 said:
Saban's days at MSU and Miami (NFL) prove one thing: on a level playing field, he is just as average as any other guy on a level playing field. On a skewed playing field, he "wins the games he should". And while he may not lose to a directional Michigan, I can't see KF-coached team giving up a Kick 6 in your final regular season game with the CCG/BCS CG on the line.

But maybe that's just me...
Click to expand...

Of course he wouldn't, because Iowa doesn't have a history of spitting the bit in close games against top competition. The kick 6 was all on Saban...but so is the dismantling of most of the teams they face with the championship on the line...whether it's SEC or NC. They show up in big games and he has a history of getting his teams to the finish line with continuous improvement throughout the year. You have to beat them the way Auburn and Oklahoma did, which is with similar athletes and no fear. They played aggressive and didn't take their foot off the accelerator.

The word ridiculous was what prompted the post. Considering they won an NC three years ago with almost the same circumstances they face this year...it's not ridiculous to project them at #3.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
The basis for his argument was that they will be breaking in a new QB with very little experience in the tough SEC. Hmmm...let's see, when was the last time Alabama did that. Well, it was AJ McCarron about three years ago and they went 12-1 and won a National Championship.
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Deace's point is that Alabama will probably be starting a QB this fall who is just joining the program, not even having been in Spring practice.

McCarron was in his 3rd year in the program when he became a starter as a redshirt sophomore. He spent his redshirt freshman season as the holder on FG/XP and threw 48 passes.

Big difference.
 
ICHawk24 said:
Deace's point is that Alabama will probably be starting a QB this fall who is just joining the program, not even having been in Spring practice.

McCarron was in his 3rd year in the program when he became a starter as a redshirt sophomore. He spent his redshirt freshman season as the holder on FG/XP and threw 48 passes.

Big difference.
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Well, we don't really know who the starter will be, but the point was the QB isn't expected to carry the offense in their scheme. McCarron threw 48 passes in mop up duty in blowouts is my guess. I get that it's playing time and helps the cause, but it's much different than going on the road in the SEC and being the starter. He hadn't done that. If the guy they got from Florida State, Coker, is the projected starter without a spring or fall camp, I'm confident he's a hack right? No, he's a senior who threw 36 passes for Florida State last year, and wasn't playing because the guy that was just led his team to an NC. His experience is a wash compared to McCarron holding a clipboard for two years. If Saban wanted him...there's a reason and I think it plays to the advantage that he's been at FSU for 3-4 years or whatever. His maturity and experience is a wash at minimum to where McCarron was a RS Soph.

With these incredible arguments to the contrary, I stand corrected, it is RIDICULOUS for Alabama to be ranked #3.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
Of course he wouldn't, because Iowa doesn't have a history of spitting the bit in close games against top competition. The kick 6 was all on Saban...but so is the dismantling of most of the teams they face with the championship on the line...whether it's SEC or NC. They show up in big games and he has a history of getting his teams to the finish line with continuous improvement throughout the year. You have to beat them the way Auburn and Oklahoma did, which is with similar athletes and no fear. They played aggressive and didn't take their foot off the accelerator.

The word ridiculous was what prompted the post. Considering they won an NC three years ago with almost the same circumstances they face this year...it's not ridiculous to project them at #3.
Click to expand...

It's NEVER ridiculous to pick a "top" $EC team in the Top 3. It IS ridiculous to think is done honestly and above-board...
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
Just got around to listening to the podcast on Phil Steele's rankings on the coming season. Deace calling out Alabama as being a ridiculous choice for #3 in the preseason poll was, well, pretty ridiculous, to use his words. The basis for his argument was that they will be breaking in a new QB with very little experience in the tough SEC. Hmmm...let's see, when was the last time Alabama did that. Well, it was AJ McCarron about three years ago and they went 12-1 and won a National Championship. The other argument was that they lost a number of talented players to the NFL. Well, if you look at their recruiting classes, they bring in the top talent from HS every year at every position. I'm going to give Saban the benefit of the doubt and say he has a chance to live up to the ranking. If they were a fast paced, spread team with a dependence on stellar QB play, it may be a different story. The QB, ala McCarron's first year, is a game manager and just needs to make safe throws to move the chains and keep their bruising offensive line on the field. Their defense is where they win games with field position and creating turnovers. I'm not certain, but I believe Alabama has had a top 5 defense pretty much every year for the past 6 years. That recipe allows you to be a top 5 team year in and year out with the talent they bring in.

I hate Nick Saban as much as the next guy, but he's a great defensive football coach that knows how to win and use his talent.
Click to expand...


Nick Saban's methods of winning football are best applied in the SEC. He proved that by seeking it out, then coming quickly back. Just win, and we'll take care of the rest......
 
imported_ankle23 said:
Nick Saban's methods of winning football are best applied in the SEC. He proved that by seeking it out, then coming quickly back. Just win, and we'll take care of the rest......
Click to expand...

I'm pretty confident that all the SEC teams play by the same rules...and he still beats them. God, how did I find myself defending Alabama and Saban. I despise the program, the way they go about recruiting, the player payment processes, and all that is Crimson Tide. I just thought it was a crazy argument against them given the recent history and the re-loading process of uber talented freshmen and sophs.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
I'm pretty confident that all the SEC teams play by the same rules...and he still beats them. God, how did I find myself defending Alabama and Saban. I despise the program, the way they go about recruiting, the player payment processes, and all that is Crimson Tide. I just thought it was a crazy argument against them given the recent history and the re-loading process of uber talented freshmen and sophs.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR7s2m5Z5GA
 
If coach Ferentz could get half the talent that Saban gets lookout, Im not saying this because im a diehard Iowa fan but I really believe that coach Ferentz is one of the best coaches in the college gm. He does pretty good every yr with a lot less talent than most other programs. That's why he has been offered job after job since he's been at Iowa. What does everyone else think?
 
hawkeyebob62 said:
Saban's days at MSU and Miami (NFL) prove one thing: on a level playing field, he is just as average as any other guy on a level playing field. On a skewed playing field, he "wins the games he should". And while he may not lose to a directional Michigan, I can't see KF-coached team giving up a Kick 6 in your final regular season game with the CCG/BCS CG on the line.

But maybe that's just me...
Click to expand...

Have you been paying attention to Iowa special teams the last 5 years?

Iowa is the team that seemed to never be able to stop a fake punt or recover an onside kick. Special teams helped Iowa lose the arizona 2010 game, wisconsin 2010 game, Minnesota 2010 and 2011. CMU 2012, etc.
 
guffus said:
Have you been paying attention to Iowa special teams the last 5 years?

Iowa is the team that seemed to never be able to stop a fake punt or recover an onside kick. Special teams helped Iowa lose the arizona 2010 game, wisconsin 2010 game, Minnesota 2010 and 2011. CMU 2012, etc.
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The 2010 Arizona game had a LOT bigger problems than ST. And there is a huge difference between giving up a fake punt vs. a Kick 6 from 109 yards.

Of course, KF would never try a FG from 57 yard FG (unless Kaeding was around), especially with a PK who was having a bad day to begin with. His ego isn't that big/inflated.
 
Among the other advantages over-signing really benefits the upper echelon programs. Bring in the max number of highly ranked guys every season and weed out the guys that turn out to be flops and how can you not just reload?

It is hard not to give credit to Saban for being successful but it is hard not to criticize the man that takes advantage of every loophole possible with a total disregard for the player outside of what the player brings to him.

Despite all of the advantages the brilliance of Saban has had some high profile losses like getting torched by Utah in a bowl game, the Capital One last play loss against us, Kick 6 and the loss to OU in the bowl game last year to name a few.

Where he shines brightest is when talent wise they can just overwhelm the opponent. Get in a tight game and sometimes he and the vaunted DC Kirby Smart (per Gary Danielson) do not look like geniuses.
 
hawkeyebob62 said:
The 2010 Arizona game had a LOT bigger problems than ST. And there is a huge difference between giving up a fake punt vs. a Kick 6 from 109 yards.

Of course, KF would never try a FG from 57 yard FG (unless Kaeding was around), especially with a PK who was having a bad day to begin with. His ego isn't that big/inflated.
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AND especially with a RS freshman who hadn't made a fg attempt that day, but was put in to try a 57 yarder as the starting kicker was pulled due to having a bad day....
 
ICHawk24 said:
Wow, you don't understand football.
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Are you stalking me? Anyone else have ICHAWK24 following them around? So you think a guy who has been around two years and never played is better than a guy that's been around four years and never really played. Granted McCarron was in the system, but you still have to learn to read defenses and understand what teams are trying to do to you defensively. I'll take four years especially given the fact that FSU has a more sophisticated passing attack and throws the ball more than Alabama. So, what you are telling me is that Saban, knowing he has a QB on his team now that has held a clipboard for two years, still pursued and signed the guy with four years experience from Florida State...and he's projected to be the starter. I guess that kind of shoots your logic all to hell doesn't it.

Learn the damn game, ICHawk.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
I'm pretty confident that all the SEC teams play by the same rules...and he still beats them. God, how did I find myself defending Alabama and Saban. I despise the program, the way they go about recruiting, the player payment processes, and all that is Crimson Tide. I just thought it was a crazy argument against them given the recent history and the re-loading process of uber talented freshmen and sophs.
Click to expand...

You think u hate them, try being from TN and Bama being your rilivary gm every yr. Lol!
 
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