If he was any good I'd feel this way. This isn't like when Tyler Smith left to go to TN with multiple yrs of eligibility left. PM the player has largely been a disappointment. I get how it looks and all too. But it's such a short term thing. PM only has 1 yr to play and Fran isn't long in the tooth for being at Iowa much longer either. Things are pointing straight south for the mens hoops program right now and with no sons on the roster or the horizon what's Fran sticking around for?
PMac Commits to Butler
- Thread starter ForeverHawk
- Start date
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
I think you guys are mistaking me being upset that Patrick left because he's a super talent that will be hard to replace minutes of. I am upset that the coaches kid didn't have a good experience here and the optic it gives to people about Iowa basketball, something that has really shitty optics to begin with.
SwirlinLingerie
Well-Known Member
That's where you might be projecting too much. Based on your reasoning, every basketball program in D1 must suck given the number of kids in the portal every season. Hundreds of kids running from awful experiences.
Maybe Patrick and Tony both loved being Hawks and wouldn't trade those experiences for anything.
If Tony picks up an extra $300k or $400k for a free year of school in a new town and a new conference, what 22 year old should turn that down? I'd argue he should do that even if he loved Iowa and hated the idea of moving to Missouri. I agree the lack of cash on Iowa's side is problematic, but that doesn't necessarily translate into his feelings towards the coach or program.
Maybe Patrick is just bored of being a 24 year old still living in his hometown. Don't overthink it. Maybe Connor has a sweet pad in Indianapolis and Patrick is going to live with him. Maybe Connor has already told him he can tag along to the office now and then and he'll introduce him to folks in the Pacers organization. Maybe he wants to play in the most passionate basketball conference in the country and experience new venues.
Maybe Patrick loved many things about the past 5 years but is also excited for something different. Both things can be true.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
Projecting or not, that's how it looks. They are all losing players. You are right, all of them. There are guys who were on final 4 teams transferring out. I get that too, it's just bad that it's PATRICK MCCAFFERY right? That it's the coach's kid, and it's bad that his other kid isn't coming here either. Again, optics. We can't hold onto a guard that they desperately need on the roster next season who by all accounts loved Iowa City, loved Fran and got to play every single possession with the ball in his hands.
I think you're probably right on all of that about Pat and Tony - they probably did love it here, loved being friends. I don't blame either one of them and I totally understand why. I get it. I don't know if I am not saying this right or what. Like, go get paid. Go get a new environment where you can flourish and do well. I understand literally ALL of that. I am a human who grew up too right? I get it. Like, I don't blame them at all.
I hate that it's happening at Iowa as an Iowa fan, and I'm being told to just sit back and take it and like it and wish them well and I'm here thinking "Nah F all that", I cheer for IOWA
I hate it too but I'm just chalking it up to a kid who takes time away from the sport to deal with mental health is probably going to end up being unhappy where ever he happens to be. I think it's more of a him thing than an Iowa thing. That's not to say it can't be both. But when it's definitely one, I'm not going to lose sleep over the possibility that it's both.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
I am trying to get there. I am obviously also noticing that NO ONE else has left yet right? Like, losing Tony, we kind of figured that already. Losing Patrick, we kind of knew that already too and it's not like either all all time greats....but they were both 1000 point scorers so it stings a little. I do have a lot of faith in our staff and I think it says something that Owen Freeman isn't chasing a bag of money, Dix looks to be staying put and Peyton Sandfort I think is a lock to be back if he doesn't get a 1st round grade (he won't) - so....now I want to see what Iowa can bring in to supplement the rest of the team. Obviously excited about the new comers as well.
Fryowa
Administrator
Pat seems to be a kid who's heavily into social media, anecdotally I'd say more than the average player going by the amount of interaction etc he had/has on twitter and instagram. Once in a while you'd see him posting cryptic stuff when trolls would get nasty, or getting in back-and-forths with shithead fans.
I definitely think PM took that stuff to heart more and could see him getting affected by the subset of negative "fans" who got on him during his break, bashed his dad, just shitty fans in general. Today you have to be able to deal with that stuff or it's gonna be a rough few years playing sports. I'm not saying that's all of it, but I think it's a pretty good chance that he's got a sour taste in his mouth for Iowa "fans," emphasis on the air quotes.
Totally get what you're saying and if this was like yr 6 of Frans tenure and not 14 I'd have a stronger take on it like you as well. It's just that Iowa isn't a great program right now. Frans days are numbered. PM staying or going isn't going to impact the team on or off the court next yr any kind of way really. If Iowa had some serious expectations of being in the top half of the BIG and making a run in the tournys that'd be one thing but we really don't. Many fans are checked out into apathy land and Fran isn't going to change that in 1 season with or without his kid(s) Unless he can find the male equivalent to a Caitlin Clark to come on but we all know better then that.
Sorry to say but Iowa hoops isn't recovering till Fran leaves. And that could be 2 coaches down the road if they don't make a great hire to replace him initially. But Iowa fans are really checked out and not donating to their NIL fund and I can't see a way for Fran to turn it around without that. As down as things are it will most likely get worse and stay worse for awhile before it can get better.
I dont necessarily agree that Fran can't turn it around. He just took us to 5 straight ncaa tournaments and just missed it by a couple of wins this year. I think it's very possible that Harding and Freeman will be really good. We have both Sandfort's and Dix next year. Both recruits look promising coming in.
Harding, Dix, Sandfort, and Freeman penciled in as starters in a pretty good start to a tournament type starting 5. Especially when a good majority of schools out there have to start over with an entirely new roster every year.
I know Harding isn't fully proven yet, but man he's similar to the Purdue guard who was probably the 2nd best player on that team. We need Hardijg to be that guy, Freeman to be a little more consistent and stay out of foul trouble, and Sandfort to have a Jok type senior year. That's a tournament team. If Dix gets better, we land a good portal player, or freshmen come in helping the team, those are all bonuses.
Zstatman
Well-Known Member
Here's what the Indy Star is saing about PMac coming to Butler:
Butler basketball gets commitment from Iowa transfer Patrick McCaffery
Patrick McCaffery, a 6-9 forward and coach's son, averaged 8.5 points and three rebounds per game during his five seasons at Iowa.
www.indystar.com
Maybe Patrick wants the experience of playing for someone other than his father. This does not mean he does not like Iowa. I think most of us loved being at Iowa. I spent 7 and a half years at Iowa and enjoyed almost every second of it. I grew up working for my father and the experience of working for someone else was good for me.
Zstatman
Well-Known Member
One thing that hit me when looking up the article is that Butler basketball will not be living in a fishbowl like Iowa City.
The Buttler article wasn't even on the front page of the sports section. Right now, Indy has the Pacers in the playoffs, the Fever just had the draft, the Colts have the NFL draft coming up, Purdue was just in the Final Four, and Indiana St just won the NIT.
The Buttler article wasn't even on the front page of the sports section. Right now, Indy has the Pacers in the playoffs, the Fever just had the draft, the Colts have the NFL draft coming up, Purdue was just in the Final Four, and Indiana St just won the NIT.
I like your optimism. Wish I shared it. Harding isn't going to bulk up 20 lbs magically I don't think he's got the frame to do it very fast. His game has a bit of a ceiling to it due to that. And you said it about Freeman he's gotta stay out of foul trouble and expand his range more consistently. Time will tell if he can do that.
All that said I'm speaking more towards the whole fan side of it then on the floor. Fans aren't coming to games and they aren't supporting the program. That's going to have an impact and it's already showing. If CHA was sold out every night for the men like the womens I don't think TP woulda left. If he coulda gotten even a decent in the ball park NIL deal along with the fan support I don't think he's going to Mizzu instead. I just don't see the fan support in the stands or NIL improving without a new coach... It starts there
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
I think Iowa is going to be good next year, better than this season. I hold your same optimism as I think there are really good pieces and players. Like, with Owen Freeman, Josh Dix, and Peyton Sandfort - those are all 3 all conference potential players to build around. I don't get the shade and a team that is centered around those 3 is going to finish in the top half of the conference when you have a coach like Fran directing it.
Is the dude from Purdue 20 pounds heavier than Harding?
I'm concerned with the NIL and fan base too. It could kill the program and I don't know the answer. Hopefully now that Clark is gone the men's team will get more of a following.
Zstatman
Well-Known Member
I feel like Fran saw exactly this scenario sometime during the season maybe early on. So, he played his freshmen as many minutes as he felt he could without throwing the season away. He played them enough to that they all have at least some game experience which makes them ahead of the game going into next year. Maybe they even get a transfer or two.
I've always felt Fran was a good Xs and Os coach, hen, he has enough experience. His challenge has always been getting the talent necessary to compete in the B1G. They play hard, compete and do well for the talent they have. Where you really notice the talent deficiency is in the post season and our lack of talent and size really stands out, i.e. Utah this year.
I've always felt Fran was a good Xs and Os coach, hen, he has enough experience. His challenge has always been getting the talent necessary to compete in the B1G. They play hard, compete and do well for the talent they have. Where you really notice the talent deficiency is in the post season and our lack of talent and size really stands out, i.e. Utah this year.
Harding is smaller then Iverson was I think. If you're gonna be 160ish or so at this level you better be freakishly quick and explosive. I still have no idea how guys like Iverson and Bogues did what they did amongst the giants. Bogues was like 5'3 145 if I remember right. Just a ball of muscle. We'll never see anything like him again. I know I'm rambling but point being Harding is pretty light and he's gonna keep getting pushed around out there unless he can bulk up some
Gander Hawk
Well-Known Member
He has some really good players and more on the way, plenty of reason to stick around.
The Tadjo kid I am excited to see. I think he'll start day 1 next yr if he's half of what I think he's cracked up to be. Feels like a Tyler Cook level athletic kid. We'll see if he's got much touch or not but his rebounding will certainly translate day 1 with his size
trj
Well-Known Member
Fair
Braden Smith is 6’0 175 lbs. and Harding is 5’10 150 lbs. In my head I had Brandon Smith at 6’2 or 6’3, but he really isn’t that much bigger than Harding. Braden Smith is the obvious comp, but it is the size thing with Harding that make people like me hesitant on him. Now that I know BS isn’t that big, it does make me reasses some things.
Last edited:
