ForeverHawk
Well-Known Member
Not a shock there!
PMac Commits to Butler
- Thread starter ForeverHawk
- Start date
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
I know I am the minority but I hate this.... and still haven't been able to find a single other occasion where this has happened. A coaches kid transferring out with eligibility to go play somewhere else. Like, in almost every case I can find, it's literally the greatest moments of both the players and the dad's life - to be able to coach their sons and have them spend time together... not at Iowa, it fucking sucks here.
I don't wish him the best. I am an Iowa fan. I don't cheer for Butler and I definitely don't cheer for guys who move on from our program with eligibility left to play that can help us win games. Sorry, not sorry.
I don't wish him the best. I am an Iowa fan. I don't cheer for Butler and I definitely don't cheer for guys who move on from our program with eligibility left to play that can help us win games. Sorry, not sorry.
SwirlinLingerie
Well-Known Member
I know what you are saying. I think it makes a ton of sense for Patrick though. Even if he didn't play sports, but had the opportunity to go to grad school for free away from the town he grew up in, it'd make sense. When you factor in all the other elements related to basketball, it's easy to see why a new experience and fresh start should be healthy for him and likely lead to personal growth (isn't that what college is supposed to be about).
But as a fan of the program, I hear you. There is a certain heaviness to the program right now.
There is almost a vibe that Fran is resigned to the fate of Iowa being unable to compete with less accomplished programs in the conference and region due to a lack of fan interest and monetary support. A sense that he's done all he can.
And I'm not saying he is wrong to have that view. But ultimately you need a coach who believes he can improve fan support and donations. Does Fran think he can?
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
I totally get him needing a new start. I do. I get that this is likely what's best for Pat. I also definitely understand the need for a new place, new coaches, a new start. I am fully on board with that. I am not a heartless bastard. I've needed a new start many times in life. I have. I get it - I also quit college early because "real life" was calling right? I wanted to get making money, I wanted to start a new life and get on with being an adult. I couldn't wait.
I get all of that. What I don't like are the optics. What I don't like is that Patrick didn't like it here. I don't like that Patrick wanted out of our environment. I don't like that he doesn't want to be spending more time with his dad in his dad's program. He COULDN'T WAIT to play at Iowa. Now he leaves to play for Butler?
He didn't want to play for his dad anymore? Or he just fucking hated Iowa....either way, that's the problem. That's the problem I have with it. He doesn't cherish his time playing for dad and his time at Iowa? That's a problem. He wants to escape here and the pressures? He wants to go where there are no expectations? How can that be? How much pressure was on him when we have no one who supports the program as it is?
It's just all so strange. And I do feel like our coach has kind of given up .... are you telling me he couldn't have convinced Patrick of all people to come back? Do you think Fran wants him to move on because we will be better without him and we can replace him with a better player? I doubt that. That's what Iowa fans think, but I doubt that's what Fran thinks.
It's just a fucking weird thing that I am just not happy about. As an Iowa fan, I care about 1 thing, winning basketball games and losing players is something I'll never be ok with unless they just can't play here right? or they are beat out. If you're beat out and you're not getting playing time, move on. If you are still a big piece of the team and you leave because you're not happy here... again, I take issue with that.
Fryowa
Administrator
This^^^
Since Murray and Garza left the program has felt like the Alford/Lick era again in a hurry.
People certainly don't have to agree with me, but between basketball, football, and wrestling I see some dark days ahead. Some of it is self-inflicted (Kirk Ferentz), some of it is a mix of both (Fran), and some of it is largely out of our control (Brands). Even baseball is meh this year after big expectations.
It feels a lot like the 2010-2013/14 ish era in Iowa sports. Things turned around, but the difference now is there are going to be two new head coaches in the revenue sports real soon, and the odds of it getting better rather than regressing ain't great. One thing is for certain...it's either going to be real good or real bad.
I think the key phrase here is "single other occasion where this has happened". It's also not likely you could find a situation where:
* A coach's son is treated and recovers from thyroid cancer at age 13;
* He goes on to become a 4-star rated player & commits to play for his father;
* He becomes a starter, but underperforms;
* His anxiety grows to a debilitating level and he has to take an extended leave from the team;
* After returning to the team, he gets beat out by clearly superior players, and is relegated to being a backup.
* His last year on his father's team would be spent as a backup player.
The transfer outcome may be unique; but so are the circumstances.
SwirlinLingerie
Well-Known Member
*Add to the fact he has already been in the program for 5 years. How many kids spend 5 years in the same program now? And of those that have, how many are coming back for a 6th year in that same program? It might also be hard to find another occasion of that happening.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
His situation is unique, but having that sort of infrastructure of support would be something I would think would be a good thing for him. But, by the sounds of what you're spelling out, he's leaving because he wasn't good enough. While I was someone who wanted him benched and to play less at several points last year, I disagree and next year, Iowa needs a lot of help in the post and could use Patrick another year. Like, I bought that with Joe Toussiant, I bought that with Aaron Uhlis, I bought that with Josh Ogundele ... this is JUST the worse IMO, mostly because it's Fran's kid. If he can't get Pat to stay and it sucks that bad here at Iowa....I've lost some confidence in our coach at best.
kicker22
Well-Known Member
Agreed. He's given 5 years to Iowa which before covid was a full college career. He wants to play somewhere else for a 6th year, IMO so what, let him. I don't think think less of him for doing so or feel that he's obligated to his dad to stay here or that it reflects negatively on Fran for him leaving.
If I'm being honest and it pains me to do so, but between the lack of NIL money in the program, Iowa being a middle of the pack team with no sweet 16 appearances in Fran's tenure, and the fact we don't play defense, I think there's more then enough dirt out there to hurt us on the recruiting trail I think Patrick playing a 6th year at Butler will make little impact in the grand scheme of things.
winner
Member
You're dwelling on this way too much, dude. Just let it go, everything will be alright.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
I am not worried about things being alright, I don't like it and this is an Iowa basketball forum so I am just giving my take. I feel the same about Tony as I do Patrick. I don't like when players who can contribute and help our team, leave the Iowa program. I keep being told that it's ok though - so GO BULLDOGS!
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
yeah all those things and his own kid hates it here. Come to IOWA
kicker22
Well-Known Member
But i'd also think the counter argument to that would be if he hated it that badly why wait 5 years to leave? That's the part that doesn't make sense to me.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
Well, for one, the transfer rules have changed drastically over the last 2 years of the sport, as has NIL. So, I imagine that has as big of part of it as anything. When a player has a chance to go play somewhere else that's a lot better than where you are, that's what is going to happen. I kind of want the team I cheer for to be a place where guys want to go, not leave. That's just me. That's just the Iowa fan in me. I want these guys to want to play at Iowa. When they don't want to play here, I have to come to the realization that Iowa kind of sucks. I mean, that's where I am as a fan. It sucks at Iowa as a basketball player, if it didn't, we wouldn't lose guys who have eligibility left to play here.
kicker22
Well-Known Member
Does it suck as a player as a player or does it suck financially for the players. I get where you're coming from, but if it's NIL based and financially motivated I don't think that's fair to put on the fans or the program. I agree the landscape has changed and we've dropped the ball in that department, but from a recruiting standpoint I don't think's an issue of us not being able to sign decent players, but rather those decent players choose to leave for greener pastures that may have more to do with the cash then their experience at Iowa.
I think if Patrick hated it at Iowa that much he'd of left before the end of year 5, because as you said "when a player has a chance to play somewhere else that's a lot better then where they are they're going to go". Coaches kid or not, he throws his name into the portal after say year 3 he's still most likely headed to a better place.
Zstatman
Well-Known Member
IMO, PMac has a fragile psche. I'm no expert so I don't claim to understand it all and I don't really want to understand it all.
But on a surface level this is what I see. Maybe it started with the cancer? Doesn't have to be but it could have played a part. But think about what it must be like growing up a coache's son at a major university? And, you play that sport and are supposed to be pretty good. Wasn't he Iowa's Mr Bsketball? Then you come into the program and don't really have the game to lead your team to the promised land and your game doesn't improve to the point where you can do that.
Do you think PMac is on social media? Jack? Conner? I'd guess o. The probably shouldn't be. Can you imagine reading all the crap put out about your dad? Your team? You? Then do you take it home and discuss it as a family at the Sunday dinner table? I'd guess so. And, it's part of the deal.
But what must life be like in the fish bowl of Iowa City for the family? That Iowa fish bowl drove out Ralph Miller and Lute Olson for those old enough to remember. It's not easy, I'm sure. Money has never been an issue so that can't be it.
I'm not sure where PMac goes after one year at Butler? Overseas? The G League? I don't know htat he's mentally tough enough to go either route. Look at him now, moving to a city where his brother lives.
PMac is going to have his challenges going forward dealing with life on its terms. Most of us already know how tough that can be.
I will always appreciate PMac's contributions to the Black and Gold. He had his moments. I will always remember his fist bump when he hit that free throw to join the 1000 point club, his legacy was set.
I hope he finds peace and happiness going forward.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
If players are leaving for greener pastures that may have more to do with cash that's a problem. If players want to play in front of fans and play at a more prestigious program with better fan support, that's a problem. If players want to play for a different coach, that's a problem.
Iowa has a problem. No one here on this board is more pro Iowa basketball then me. Maybe Duke... maybe not. But I'm called a Iowa book licking homer on here more days then not. .....But like, admitting you have a problem is the first step. Iowa basketball has a major problem on their hands and IMO, when you are in the B1G, one of the two power conferences being assembled, that's scary.
I'm not completely checked out of Iowa basketball cause I want to see where things go from here...but I am getting really close....which to me, is also a problem. A problem that Iowa needs to fix.
