playing Franball isn't so bad

[Zstatman]

Here's an article from SB Nation looking at playing under Fran from a big picture perspective.

https://www.btpowerhouse.com/2019/1...its-not-all-that-bad-iowa-hawkeyes-basketball

 

[NikeHawk21]

To summarize:

Iowa has been fairly good under Fran, but fans want more. Iowa has been good on offense but not so good on defense, meaning Fran is a system coach.

Michigan went to the national championship game twice under Beliein. The second time they hired a defensive coordinator to help Beilein who was an offensive guy.

Could Iowa/Fran hire a guy like that?

The end/

 

[RobHowe]

Fran could have attempted that when Andrew Francis left.

He did not.

 

[InGoodCo]

To summarize:

Iowa has been fairly good under Fran, but fans want more. Iowa has been good on offense but not so good on defense, meaning Fran is a system coach.

Michigan went to the national championship game twice under Beliein. The second time they hired a defensive coordinator to help Beilein who was an offensive guy.

Could Iowa/Fran hire a guy like that?

The end/

I love Cliff Notes

 

[mopkins]

Fran plays a fun style of basketball. Even when they suck they're usually fun to watch...just also wildly frustrating. I do think its crazy that Fran hasn't been able to land a real elite, game changing recruit. You'd think a high tempo pace would attract a stud one-and-done who wanted to run the floor and play for an elite offense

Fran's major pitfalls IMO:

If his teams could just play top 50 defense they would likely be a major force. Ive never seen a college team consistently inept at defense.
His offense seems like it would be elite with a stud PG...and we've been saying that for 10 years now
Almost Zero player success at the NBA level
He has for whatever reason been god awful in the BTT.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Fran plays a fun style of basketball. Even when they suck they're usually fun to watch...just also wildly frustrating. I do think its crazy that Fran hasn't been able to land a real elite, game changing recruit. You'd think a high tempo pace would attract a stud one-and-done who wanted to run the floor and play for an elite offense

Fran's major pitfalls IMO:

If his teams could just play top 50 defense they would likely be a major force. Ive never seen a college team consistently inept at defense.
His offense seems like it would be elite with a stud PG...and we've been saying that for 10 years now
Almost Zero player success at the NBA level
He has for whatever reason been god awful in the BTT.

Fran has had three teams finish top 35 in adjusted defense per KenPom. The Bohannon teams have been bad defensive clubs (Cook and Garza had their issues as well on D), but they’ve also been very good on offense.

I think there is a lot of recency bias there with Iowa fans, but I don’t think Izzo would be able to coach some of our recent teams to be even above average on defense. At some point your hamstrung by the players, but as I mentioned those guys were really good offensive players. The woody teams were solid on defense for the most part.

What’s an elite program changing recruit? Does it have to be a one and done guy, because if it does almost every school in the conference hasn’t gotten one? I would say Garza and Wieskamp are both program changing recruits.

 

[mopkins]

Fran has had three teams finish top 35 in adjusted defense per KenPom. The Bohannon teams have been bad defensive clubs (Cook and Garza had their issues as well on D), but they’ve also been very good on offense.

I think there is a lot of recency bias there with Iowa fans, but I don’t think Izzo would be able to coach some of our recent teams to be even above average on defense. At some point your hamstrung by the players, but as I mentioned those guys were really good offensive players. The woody teams were solid on defense for the most part.

What’s an elite program changing recruit? Does it have to be a one and done guy, because if it does almost every school in the conference hasn’t gotten one? I would say Garza and Wieskamp are both program changing recruits.

The recency bias thing is very accurate. Sorta forgot about the 2015/2016 teams. Whats sorta interesting is that right now Iowa's adjusted defense is within the top 100 for the first time in Bohannons career, and he's been limited by injuries. Can't ignore the fact that Cook/Moss are gone too though.

Guess my point with recruiting is that Fran has had a consistently elite level offense for the past ~7 years and still can't land that knockout recruit. Its just surprising to me. You'd think that would be a pretty easy sell to kids, especially PG's.

 

[haydensly]

The recency bias thing is very accurate. Sorta forgot about the 2015/2016 teams. Whats sorta interesting is that right now Iowa's adjusted defense is within the top 100 for the first time in Bohannons career, and he's been limited by injuries. Can't ignore the fact that Cook/Moss are gone too though.

Guess my point with recruiting is that Fran has had a consistently elite level offense for the past ~7 years and still can't land that knockout recruit. Its just surprising to me. You'd think that would be a pretty easy sell to kids, especially PG's.

I have very little doubt that we have lost very good players who went elsewhere because we didn't pay up. I have no first hand knowledge of this but it's not hard to figure out when you see the results of the recent FBI investigations that have been in the news.

 

[mopkins]

I have very little doubt that we have lost very good players who went elsewhere because we didn't pay up. I have no first hand knowledge of this but it's not hard to figure out when you see the results of the recent FBI investigations that have been in the news.

Well just look at Fran's Big Ten recruiting rankings over his career at Iowa:

2020: 10th
2019: 11th
2018: 12th
2017: 9th
2016: 7th (Tyler Cook)
2015: 13th
2014: 11th
2013: 14th
2012: 6th (Woodbury/Gesell)
2011: 10th
2010: 9th

Looking at that its almost incredible Fran has had the success he's had. Consistently in the basement of the recruiting rankings in the conference.

I'm not saying recruiting rankings are the end all, but its crazy to be consistently ranked that poorly over a decade.

 

[RobHowe]

He's not going to compromise his values and beliefs for a recruit. I know he wrestled with whether or not to bring in at least one prospect in the '20 class because of a red flag. The kid ended up elsewhere but would have certainly helped the recruiting ranking.

 

[Zstatman]

Iowa has never been able to recruit that elite player, some good ones but not elite. I still remember when Isaiah Thomas had his potential schools down to two, Iowa and Indiana. He chooses Indiana and wins a national title, Lute moved on to Arizona, where by the way, he was able to recruit the talent he couldn't get to come to Iowa City.

It's easy to forget just how bare the cupboard was when Fran arrived in Iowa City. You increase your talent level brick by brick but it's a really slow process, when you get a recruit for the most part you are getting him for four years so turnover can be slow.

I feel this is Fran's best team so far. A successful year to me will be a Sweet 16. Right now we have something that we haven't had under Fran, three legit scorers; Garza, Weiskemp and Fredrick. The other teams have to focus on all three now. Lay off Luka and he scores inside, double him down low and our wing shooters can drill it. This team has a lot of heart. It seems to me they are playing good D or maybe it's just Hawkeye Heart doing its thing.

Right now it seems we are all excited by the five recruits coming in next year, anxious to see what kind of game they bring. I think this coming June when they arrive on campus, men's BB will be a buzz.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Iowa has never been able to recruit that elite player, some good ones but not elite. I still remember when Isaiah Thomas had his potential schools down to two, Iowa and Indiana. He chooses Indiana and wins a national title, Lute moved on to Arizona, where by the way, he was able to recruit the talent he couldn't get to come to Iowa City.

It's easy to forget just how bare the cupboard was when Fran arrived in Iowa City. You increase your talent level brick by brick but it's a really slow process, when you get a recruit for the most part you are getting him for four years so turnover can be slow.

I feel this is Fran's best team so far. A successful year to me will be a Sweet 16. Right now we have something that we haven't had under Fran, three legit scorers; Garza, Weiskemp and Fredrick. The other teams have to focus on all three now. Lay off Luka and he scores inside, double him down low and our wing shooters can drill it. This team has a lot of heart. It seems to me they are playing good D or maybe it's just Hawkeye Heart doing its thing.

Right now it seems we are all excited by the five recruits coming in next year, anxious to see what kind of game they bring. I think this coming June when they arrive on campus, men's BB will be a buzz.

I love the optimism but without Bohannon what this team is is still a little bit of an unknown. I think most folks would be happy with .500 play in the B1G and a tournament bid.

 

[bogeyman]

Fran has had three teams finish top 35 in adjusted defense per KenPom. The Bohannon teams have been bad defensive clubs (Cook and Garza had their issues as well on D), but they’ve also been very good on offense.

I think there is a lot of recency bias there with Iowa fans, but I don’t think Izzo would be able to coach some of our recent teams to be even above average on defense. At some point your hamstrung by the players, but as I mentioned those guys were really good offensive players. The woody teams were solid on defense for the most part.

What’s an elite program changing recruit? Does it have to be a one and done guy, because if it does almost every school in the conference hasn’t gotten one? I would say Garza and Wieskamp are both program changing recruits.

I think when most on here mention an Elite Program Changing recruit we all assume they mean a PG ha ha.

 

[ModebaSan]

I think this team makes it to the Big Dance this year. Parity is showing itself not only in the B1G, in throughout the entire b-ball scene. Even if we get knocked out early, I’m really stoked about what we have coming back next year.
Garza, Nunge, Pemsl, Ogundele, Till, Weiskamp, CMac, PMac, Fredrick, Toussaint, Bohannon, Uhlis, Perkins, Kris and Keegan Murray. We only lose Evelyn and Kriener. Walk-on’s are M. Baer, Ash, Hobbs, and Vanderloo.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

Fran could have attempted that when Andrew Francis left.

He did not.

Yeah...this was something I just didn't understand. It's the missing link. I'm afraid Fran's pride may be the influencer here. I mean, come on, you can only hit yourself on the thumb so many times, do you really believe you are a good carpenter?

I'm thinking Fran wanted someone he was comfortable with on the staff...and I believe Taylor is a good recruiter. Recruiters are important...but missing on Carton, and Xavier isn't showing any chops at this point.

 

[trj]

I love the optimism but without Bohannon what this team is is still a little bit of an unknown. I think most folks would be happy with .500 play in the B1G and a tournament bid.

Yeah, I would take the KenPom 20-11(11-9) projection and run with it.

 

[trj]

I am just throwing this out there so take it fwiw.

I think Fran's philosophy was similar to Golden State, where you will be so efficient on offense that you will just outscore people. Not much different than Hoiberg at Iowa St. It is not defense be damned, but you are willing to live with certain things. What changed for Fran was the 17-18 season. He realized he couldn't just "outscore" teams. Fran is an offensive guy and he will never change, but he has made adjustments defensively. Iowa has to be decent on defense, not great. I think that gets lost on people sometimes.

 

[BigD]

Well just look at Fran's Big Ten recruiting rankings over his career at Iowa:

2020: 10th
2019: 11th
2018: 12th
2017: 9th
2016: 7th (Tyler Cook)
2015: 13th
2014: 11th
2013: 14th
2012: 6th (Woodbury/Gesell)
2011: 10th
2010: 9th

Looking at that its almost incredible Fran has had the success he's had. Consistently in the basement of the recruiting rankings in the conference.

I'm not saying recruiting rankings are the end all, but its crazy to be consistently ranked that poorly over a decade.

I think it’s the end all. Blue blood programs are called blue blood programs for a reason. NONE of them are averaging TENTH place annually in recruiting over a eleven year period.

Those stats say it all. The coach gets more out of his recruits than he should given how poorly his recruits are rated. That means Fran know how to coach offense and get the ball in the hoop. His weak spot is defense. That would need to improve (at most schools not named IOWA) or adios amigos which according to Barta is Spanish meaning; “Give that guy a lifetime contract”.

 

[tmess1989]

I think it’s the end all. Blue blood programs are called blue blood programs for a reason. NONE of them are averaging TENTH place annually in recruiting over a eleven year period.

Those stats say it all. The coach gets more out of his recruits than he should given how poorly his recruits are rated. That means Fran know how to coach offense and get the ball in the hoop. His weak spot is defense. That would need to improve (at most schools not named IOWA) or adios amigos which according to Barta is Spanish meaning; “Give that guy a lifetime contract”.

I dont understand how the poor recruiting rankings are an argument in favor of how good Fran has a been as a coach.

Recruiting in college is absolutely one of the most important parts of being a college head coach. If you can't consistently land good recruits then you either have a poor product to sell or recruits see that you aren't a great coach and would have rather play for a better coach that gives them a better shot at a pro career. The fact that Iowa has basically had nobody be a significant NBA player since Reggie Evan's is all the evidence we need.

Now if many top recruiting targets have gotten money to go somewhere else and Fran refuses to break the rules then I'm fine with that. I just wish the NCAA would either crack down on the illegal stuff or just allow it all.

 

[BigD]

I dont understand how the poor recruiting rankings are an argument in favor of how good Fran has a been as a coach.

Recruiting in college is absolutely one of the most important parts of being a college head coach. If you can't consistently land good recruits then you either have a poor product to sell or recruits see that you aren't a great coach and would have rather play for a better coach that gives them a better shot at a pro career. The fact that Iowa has basically had nobody be a significant NBA player since Reggie Evan's is all the evidence we need.

Now if many top recruiting targets have gotten money to go somewhere else and Fran refuses to break the rules then I'm fine with that. I just wish the NCAA would either crack down on the illegal stuff or just allow it all.

Totally agree with you. I was being fair in that he gets better results in regards to the level of players (according to ratings) that he has. The big problem is that the rating classes just don’t cut it if fans ever want more than middle of the road conference team. He hasn’t won a conference title or a conference tournament. Even little Stevie won two tournament titles and we got rid of him (he quit under heavy scrutiny).

Fran seems like a likable person and that’s really important to the powers that be at the University of Iowa (see Kirk ball). Just be good and competitive but never really great and nothing more will ever be expected of you. Seems like weak sauce to me in regards to having a championship spirit (see Dan Gable) of a true competitive heart. Far short of a championship minded organization to say the least.

If you don’t shoot for the stars you will never hit them.