Pistol Formation

[briankaldenberg]

Can anyone think of a disadvantage of running out of this formation? The majority of non-flex teams in the top 20 nationally in rushing run some sort of the pistol formation and/or run the ball out of the gun more than half of the time.

 

[hawkfan2679]

Inability to read the backside DE on zone plays, maybe? Then again, Iowa doesn't read the backside end on zone plays (from under center) and it works ok for them.

 

[Herkeynerd]

Can anyone think of a disadvantage of running out of this formation? The majority of non-flex teams in the top 20 nationally in rushing run some sort of the pistol formation and/or run the ball out of the gun more than half of the time.

Iowa under Ferentz has never tried to be anything they aren't. They run a pro style offense (usually I formation with 1 or two TE) and that's what they'll do. Ferentz never does anything just because others do it, he goes with what works for his teams.
I see your point, just bringing it up hypothetically, but Iowa under Ferentz and O'Keefe will never do it, they don't need to.

 

[Ronco]

Iowa under Ferentz has never tried to be anything they aren't. They run a pro style offense (usually I formation with 1 or two TE) and that's what they'll do. Ferentz never does anything just because others do it, he goes with what works for his teams.
I see your point, just bringing it up hypothetically, but Iowa under Ferentz and O'Keefe will never do it, they don't need to.

How is this related to his question?

 

[briankaldenberg]

Iowa under Ferentz has never tried to be anything they aren't. They run a pro style offense (usually I formation with 1 or two TE) and that's what they'll do. Ferentz never does anything just because others do it, he goes with what works for his teams.
I see your point, just bringing it up hypothetically, but Iowa under Ferentz and O'Keefe will never do it, they don't need to.

No need to get defensive. You did nothing to answer my question.

 

[bws258]

I read somewhere that Coach Ault said Nevada had something like 60 or 70 schools visit them this summer to see how it's run

 

[IATrainMaster101]

Iowa puts NFL ready players into the NFL at a higher rate than aproximately 105 other
D1 schools. They do this by running a pro style offense, and coaching their guys up. This in turn lures a higher than normal rate of good talent to play here at Iowa. It is a winning recipe.

 

[briankaldenberg]

I think the pistol provides these advantages vs under center. I want someone with more football knowledge to comment on this topic though.

1. QB has less footwork. QB might be able to see the field a bit better. QB is instantly in a 3 step-drop throwing position enabling them to get the ball out quicker

2. Less chance of defense recovering a bad snap.

3. QB doesn't have to turn back to defense for play action

4. If mobile QB it opens up the QB draw, and read play.

 

[Herkeynerd]

No need to get defensive. You did nothing to answer my question.

Yeah, you caught me, sorry bout that. I thought it related to Iowa. Actually, I'm not sure on success rates for teams with that formation. But as with any formation, there will be some disadvantage to it, the other team just might not expose it.

 

[briankaldenberg]

Iowa puts NFL ready players into the NFL at a higher rate than aproximately 105 other
D1 schools. They do this by running a pro style offense, and coaching their guys up. This in turn lures a higher than normal rate of good talent to play here at Iowa. It is a winning recipe.

Why can't you still be a pro-offense out of a pistol formation? The only difference I see is the QB is 3 yards behind center instead of .5 yards.

 

[Herkeynerd]

Why can't you still be a pro-offense out of a pistol formation? The only difference I see is the QB is 3 yards behind center instead of .5 years.

Hey I know I wouln't want to be .5 years behind the center, hard to hike it that far!

 

[DFaceHawkeye]

I think the pistol provides these advantages vs under center. I want someone with more football knowledge to comment on this topic though.

1. QB has less footwork. QB might be able to see the field a bit better. QB is instantly in a 3 step-drop throwing position enabling them to get the ball out quicker

2. Less chance of defense recovering a bad snap.

3. QB doesn't have to turn back to defense for play action

4. If mobile QB it opens up the QB draw, and read play.

Out of a true pistol, with the rb directly behind the qb, he almost always turns his back.

The QB can definitely get a better pre-snap read, as well as a good full field read during a pass. As opposed to Iowa's attack where the qb turns as he drops. If you think back to Fry day's, his Qb's always backpedaled out from under center for this reason. I think the Bears currently do this as well.

I think the biggest disadvantage, could be maintaining blocks. But, maybe the timing is similar. Probably depends upon the blocking scheme, Zone v. Man. Thinking back, Russell was at least as deep as a pistol RB. Okay, I just talked myself out of that!

 

[vegtsh01]

Inability to read the backside DE on zone plays, maybe? Then again, Iowa doesn't read the backside end on zone plays (from under center) and it works ok for them.

I am pretty positive you can still read the backside defensive end. The difference of the zone play would just be where the RB gets the hand off. IMO it is a lot easier to run the ball under center than out of shotgun. One reason is that the back gets more momentum than what he would out of a shot gun (going forward vs sideways when he takes the hand off). With the pistol it gives the advantages of under center for running and passing out of a shotgun

 

[hawkinaclownhouse]

Why can't you still be a pro-offense out of a pistol formation? The only difference I see is the QB is 3 yards behind center instead of .5 yards.

You can't run a true pro-style offense out to the pistol as you can not have a fullback as a lead blocker. (You can't have a fullback at all). The trend in the past couple of years in the NFL is the return of the true fullback (very few one back sets left on 1st & 2nd down) as a lead blocker.

With the pistol there is less opportunity to get a numeric advantage at the point of attack by having a lead blocker (fullback), a tight end, and pull linemen (traps, etc.). You usually spread teams out with 3 or even 4 wides to get people out of the box

 

[burky247]

Hey I know I wouln't want to be .5 years behind the center, hard to hike it that far!

Hit the weights son!

 

[Frito]

It's difficult to run a true zone-read play, reading the DE without the RB next to the QB. The DE needs to the chase the play to the opposite side of the formation (RB aiming point) for the QB to pull the ball and keep it. In the Pistol, the RB is behind the QB, so the QB would open to the RB's aiming point (putting his back to the opposite side DE that he would be reading). If you are talking about inside/outside zone without the option, then yes, you can read the DE for your cut, but not for a true option.
In Nevada's pistol, they run more Mid-line option (similar to Georgia Tech) where they usually option the DT, possibly the DE depending on the front. Frequently, this is also base-blocked versus zone-blocked.

 

[whammer33024]

it looks goofy, how's that for a disadvantage?

 

[CAARHawk]

When Norm Chow comes to learn your offense, you know you really have something. Basically, with decent execution nobody can stop it at this point. Defenses will of course catch up, but they haven't yet.

Having invented the system, Ault has his team running it at a radically high level. That being said, it seems like the starting point would be to move to a smaller quicker defense that would involve more man instead if zone responsibility. Basically, you have to force these teams to throw. Problem with facing Nevada is that kid can throw too.

Really should be in the Heisman discussion. I am sure he will be when he beats Boise, but it will probably be too late to get an invite.

 

[hawkfan2679]

I am pretty positive you can still read the backside defensive end. The difference of the zone play would just be where the RB gets the hand off. IMO it is a lot easier to run the ball under center than out of shotgun. One reason is that the back gets more momentum than what he would out of a shot gun (going forward vs sideways when he takes the hand off). With the pistol it gives the advantages of under center for running and passing out of a shotgun

How would the footwork go on that play, with a RB behind a pistol QB, if the play was zone left. How does the QB read the DE on the right side of the offensive formation out of the pistol?

You can't run a true pro-style offense out to the pistol as you can not have a fullback as a lead blocker. (You can't have a fullback at all). The trend in the past couple of years in the NFL is the return of the true fullback (very few one back sets left on 1st & 2nd down) as a lead blocker.

With the pistol there is less opportunity to get a numeric advantage at the point of attack by having a lead blocker (fullback), a tight end, and pull linemen (traps, etc.). You usually spread teams out with 3 or even 4 wides to get people out of the box

How about this?

King/Queen Set:

....X..................T..G..C..G..T..TE
................................................................Z
........................(F)...Q...F
................................................................
...............................T

Now you can really run power in both directions.

 

[vegtsh01]

How would the footwork go on that play, with a RB behind a pistol QB, if the play was zone left. How does the QB read the DE on the right side of the offensive formation out of the pistol?

I confused it with a read option. I can remember Central College running it. But lets say the QB opens left he would be reading the defensive end to the side he opens. Obviously if he chases the RB the QB keeps, and if he stays he hands off to the back. Maybe not a "zone" read option. But it is still a read option.