Pat Harty - Hawkeyes' big hurdle always has been recruiting

[eyekwah]

Hawk Central - Pat Harty
[h=1]Hawkeyes' big hurdle always has been recruiting[/h]Overall I think it is a good assessment, but it the article could be written about several places. You could plug in any number of Big Ten teams and many from other conferences.

Each year there is pretty much a finite set of D-1 talent that gets identified that is going to get shared among all participating colleges. If you took the ESPN top 300 and divided by 65, the # power conference teams, the result is 4.6. We all know that there are places that are going to get more than 4.6 recruits from the top 300. We also know that the number of competing schools is greater than 65 when we start to include the independents. It does raise questions about how realistic it is to expect recruiting to ever be more than it has been.

Here are some questions that I do not know the answer to:

1. Of the pool of top recruits each year how many of them would qualify for admission to the University of Iowa without having to make exceptions?
2. The SEC has been using over-signing and purging past highly ranked recruits that are not meeting expectations, where do those men end up?
3. What is the level of attrition that a team can absorb? It has been my impression that teams with greater numbers of juniors and seniors tend to succeed. When Iowa has had bad seasons it usually has a small class of seniors that year.
4. It has been shown that many teams watch who Iowa is recruiting and then go after those players. It takes a lot of effort to identify players that others may have ignored. How do you hide players you are recruiting from others?

About three years ago Norm Parker was on a local radio show here in Des Moines. He said Iowa's facilities had fallen behind teams that want to compete with and was an impairment to recruiting. Norm was always a straight shooter so I believe he knew what was the situation. Since then the indoor practice facility has been put in place and the new football offices are ready to be opened the first of October. As the article states new approaches to recruiting are being taken by the staff.

Hopefully between the new facilities and the new approach to recruiting Iowa will do better at avoiding the up and downs.

 

[kmurp]

Iowa needs to recruit better that’s for sure. It’s hard to do in Iowa.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

We all know that Iowa has inherent recruiting disadvantages, so this article isn't much of a revelation, but in my mind, this is why it's important for Iowa to hire coaches that are excellent recruiters, and/or have a good eye for undervalued recruits: To help make up for that recruiting disadvantage and level the playing field as much as can be.

This is where Barta failed big time when he hired Lick, IMO. TL was a poor recruiter, and the level of talent reflected that, and hence, 20 loss teams. That and the fact that the guy couldn't keep players in the program. I'm not sure it was ever an X's and O's problem. Give Lick some talent to work with, and I'm betting he could have won here, too.

Coaching is crucial for sure, but it doesn't matter much if your players all have low ceilings. Gotta be able to cross state borders and pull a few good players, in addition to locking up the rare in-state talent that comes along.

As has been said, nobody ever said it would be easy, though. Just gotta have coaches with some recruiting chops.

 

[ohhawk]

Our location makes it a challenge but we don't help the cause by playing the style of ball we play, being late to recognize and respond to the changes taking place in the recruiting world, being content to schedule a lackluster non-conf schedule, etc. Of course wins and losses trump most any other factor for drawing attention from recruits and we haven't exactly put ourselves on the map in the last few years........2009 being the last real attention garnering year.

Outside of our location, I think our AD & coaches are responsible for most other factors and affecting change. It's all relative and I don't think most Hawkeye followers expect Top 10 finishes in our recruiting efforts but Top 30 on a regular basis vs. Top 50 could well pay better dividends on the field. Yes, I agree, we can do better and the personnel and energy dedicated to attracting talent is key.

 

[DJI9424]

I'm not apologizing for TL's performance at Iowa but I believe the real issue was his program's identity and he never was able to transition his Butler team's identity to Iowa. Butler's basketball was built on control with very deliberate execution on offense. It was not the game that Alford's players were recruited to play and if you were being recruited by TL and wanted to play that sort of game in the Big10, you went to Wisconsin. Additionally, to Bo Ryan's credit, he lets his team play offense when they have a good shot and he had already established a successful program so why bother with Iowa? The end result was that without a good fit between the players' talents and interests and the overall strategy (identity), he was not able to achieve any success at Iowa.

Establishing the identity of a program is what allows you to be as effective as possible in recruiting because you're going after players that fit your style of play. And you don't have to convince the players that your approach is best for them, they have already bought into it when they come on board.

What concerns me with Iowa's football program is they have a overly constrained offensive identity and as a result, will not attract enough talented players to make it successful. Iowa's offensive scheme is quite bland - Wisconsin and Michigan State play a similar, but more attractive version of offense in the Big10, not to mention they have had better success in recent years than Iowa, so given those facts, why would a very talented offensive recruit (especially QB, RB, WR positions) choose Iowa?

With the Pitt game, we saw some hope that the offense will be opened up - let's hope that this continues into the Big10 games.

 

[1hawkeye1]

"The football coach at Iowa learns to do more with less — with exception to salary — or he doesn't survive."

Ain't it the troof, man, ain't it the troof..............

 

[alexzelada]

I'm not apologizing for TL's performance at Iowa but I believe the real issue was his program's identity and he never was able to transition his Butler team's identity to Iowa. Butler's basketball was built on control with very deliberate execution on offense. It was not the game that Alford's players were recruited to play and if you were being recruited by TL and wanted to play that sort of game in the Big10, you went to Wisconsin. Additionally, to Bo Ryan's credit, he lets his team play offense when they have a good shot and he had already established a successful program so why bother with Iowa? The end result was that without a good fit between the players' talents and interests and the overall strategy (identity), he was not able to achieve any success at Iowa.

Establishing the identity of a program is what allows you to be as effective as possible in recruiting because you're going after players that fit your style of play. And you don't have to convince the players that your approach is best for them, they have already bought into it when they come on board.

What concerns me with Iowa's football program is they have a overly constrained offensive identity and as a result, will not attract enough talented players to make it successful. Iowa's offensive scheme is quite bland - Wisconsin and Michigan State play a similar, but more attractive version of offense in the Big10, not to mention they have had better success in recent years than Iowa, so given those facts, why would a very talented offensive recruit (especially QB, RB, WR positions) choose Iowa?

With the Pitt game, we saw some hope that the offense will be opened up - let's hope that this continues into the Big10 games.

Actually you were trying to apologize for Lick and it was just embarrassing the thoughts you were throwing out there. Todd and he son didn't lick, they sucked. And set us back quite a bit.

 

[DJI9424]

Actually you were trying to apologize for Lick and it was just embarrassing the thoughts you were throwing out there. Todd and he son didn't lick, they sucked. And set us back quite a bit.

No, I wasn't apologizing for him, I was trying to be objective about the reasons for his poor results. I quit watching Iowa BB when TL was coaching because it was not entertaining and speaking only for myself, even if they would have been winning the bulk of their games, I would still not watch because it is boring basketball. It's the style of play that matters to me, not whether they win or lose doing it, therefore I don't watch Wisconsin BB either, even though they have been successful (W/L %) with their program.

 

[MoseSchrute]

Iowa City is a nice town and we have great facilities, great fans, and proven record of building NFL players. Iowa needs to do better moving forward.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

No, I wasn't apologizing for him, I was trying to be objective about the reasons for his poor results. I quit watching Iowa BB when TL was coaching because it was not entertaining and speaking only for myself, even if they would have been winning the bulk of their games, I would still not watch because it is boring basketball. It's the style of play that matters to me, not whether they win or lose doing it, therefore I don't watch Wisconsin BB either, even though they have been successful (W/L %) with their program.

I have to disagree.. I would rather watch Lick style basketball if it produces wins, rather than Fran's style of it doesn't. Winning basketball is the most entertaining style of basketball to me. Sure, I'd rather it be up-tempo, without a doubt, but W/L trumps all.

We can also speculate that Brad Stevens had as much to do with Butler's success as Lick did, if not more. Lick is currently coaching Marian U, and Stevens is coaching the Celtics, if that tells you anything. Iowa may have hired the wrong Butler coach.....

As for style of play - I think Fran's system is generally going to be far more attractive to recruits. Most good athletes would rather get up and down the floor so that they can show their stuff. Plus, Fran has fire (maybe a bit too much sometimes) and is a great talker. So Lick didn't have that going for him, but as you stated, Wisconsin hoops is not exactly "fun" to watch, but it doesn't stop Bo Ryan from winning. There must be other factors.

Was Lick the workhorse that Fran is on the recruiting trail? Could he relate to his players and keep them in the program? Hard to do much when you're essentially starting over with a fresh roster every year, playing a lot of freshmen & sophomores - ones who weren't overly talented at that. Was he great salesman for the program? I look at Lick - good guy, but he came across more like a pastor than a basketball coach, but maybe that was "Public Lick" and he was different behind the scenes. I couldn't really say.

I believe there are a lot of reasons Lick didn't win at Iowa, not any single one thing.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

I don't agree that KF has earned the same staying power as HF earned. Hayden brought the Iowa program back from being non existent. The University of Iowa had no marketability. Hayden Fry created it, branded it, won games and sold it. If not for Hayden Fry, the University of Iowa would not have made the fortune they did make on the sales of Hawkeye gear and apparel. KF is being paid a fortune and that neutralize "earned the right to have staying power."

Regardless of the talent level of the players KF inherited, HF's three previous seasons, prior to his last in '98, were 24-12. HF was winning at a rate KF now gets $3.75 mil per to do. When KF got here, he inherited a brand logo (Tiger Hawk) that was as recognizable as any in college football. Please don't tell me that what KF had to "rebuild" is anywhere near what Hayden had to. Further, KF has undersold the Iowa brand / logo. Give me a break, Iowa is still a B1G school. We know KF can recruit top talent to Iowa because he did it in '05, with a top 10 class. However, when those recruits turned out to be filled with ego's, KF decided he didn't want the hassle of that type of recruit.

 

[uihawk82]

I don't agree that KF has earned the same staying power as HF earned. Hayden brought the Iowa program back from being non existent. The University of Iowa had no marketability. Hayden Fry created it, branded it, won games and sold it. If not for Hayden Fry, the University of Iowa would not have made the fortune they did make on the sales of Hawkeye gear and apparel. KF is being paid a fortune and that neutralize "earned the right to have staying power."

Regardless of the talent level of the players KF inherited, HF's three previous seasons, prior to his last in '98, were 24-12. HF was winning at a rate KF now gets $3.75 mil per to do. When KF got here, he inherited a brand logo (Tiger Hawk) that was as recognizable as any in college football. Please don't tell me that what KF had to "rebuild" is anywhere near what Hayden had to. Further, KF has undersold the Iowa brand / logo. Give me a break, Iowa is still a B1G school. We know KF can recruit top talent to Iowa because he did it in '05, with a top 10 class. However, when those recruits turned out to be filled with ego's, KF decided he didn't want the hassle of that type of recruit.[/QUOTE]


^ I do think this entered into the equation with too many players quitting, getting tossed off squad, in trouble with the law, etc. KF wants 2-3 star good citizens, I think we should look for more 4* good citizens

 

[ArvadaHawk]

I don't agree that KF has earned the same staying power as HF earned. Hayden brought the Iowa program back from being non existent. The University of Iowa had no marketability. Hayden Fry created it, branded it, won games and sold it. If not for Hayden Fry, the University of Iowa would not have made the fortune they did make on the sales of Hawkeye gear and apparel. KF is being paid a fortune and that neutralize "earned the right to have staying power."

Regardless of the talent level of the players KF inherited, HF's three previous seasons, prior to his last in '98, were 24-12. HF was winning at a rate KF now gets $3.75 mil per to do. When KF got here, he inherited a brand logo (Tiger Hawk) that was as recognizable as any in college football. Please don't tell me that what KF had to "rebuild" is anywhere near what Hayden had to. Further, KF has undersold the Iowa brand / logo. Give me a break, Iowa is still a B1G school. We know KF can recruit top talent to Iowa because he did it in '05, with a top 10 class. However, when those recruits turned out to be filled with ego's, KF decided he didn't want the hassle of that type of recruit.[/QUOTE]


^ I do think this entered into the equation with too many players quitting, getting tossed off squad, in trouble with the law, etc. KF wants 2-3 star good citizens, I think we should look for more 4* good citizens

I believe they're out there and that we can get them to come to Iowa. But the 4* kids won't want to wait 2-3 seasons to play and that is the fatal flaw, if you will, with KF's philosophy.

 

[JonDMiller]

"It's saying what most of us all already know, but sometimes it's worth repeating."

I pretty much stopped reading at this point. We've all written that article, some of us a few times, including Pat. Still gotta write a bye week column, tho

 

[OUTofTOWNHAWK]

Recruiting is not the problem. This is a lie sold to those who are willing to join the "we are just little old iowa" crowd. Iowa has everthing for a good football program except a good hc. The talent level at Iowa is underachieving. Until they get a coach that can make them live up to their talent level, and put them in a winning game plan that recruiting talent will stay the same.

You are what you are. Give a poor guy money and he will blow it. Give kirk a bunch a talent and he wont use it.

 

[seepig]

Iowa needs to recruit better that’s for sure. It’s hard to do in Iowa.

That is such a load of crap and an excuse. You think Bill Snyder would agree with you at K-State!? Have you EVER been to Manhattan KS?! Not exactly a bucket list destination and NOT close to any airport or major population center. Yet the guy WINS. The guy is a genius and obviously possesses skills our staff do not.

 

[DodgerHawki]

That is such a load of crap and an excuse. You think Bill Snyder would agree with you at K-State!? Have you EVER been to Manhattan KS?! Not exactly a bucket list destination and NOT close to any airport or major population center. Yet the guy WINS. The guy is a genius and obviously possesses skills our staff do not.

If the comparison is to Snyder then literally every coach not at a historical power (Alabama, OSU, Michigan, USC, etc.) will look as a failure in comparison. If you take away the Snyder years, K-State is arguably the worst-ever program in a power conference. Snyder is the greatest football coach in the last 50 years, and perhaps more. No, he doesn't have any national titles, but what he has done there is truly remarkable. Even today, his recruiting classes are not other-worldly. He just coaches his guys better than the opponent will. I equate him to the Bo Ryan of college football. They make it look so easy, in that they get their teams to play hard, together and not make mistakes. Everyone should be able to do that right? But no one else can do it like those two guys do. Neither Bo or Snyder has won a national title (although both have come close), but when they lose it's generally that they got out-talented.

 

[Montanahawk]

Snyder is a brilliant coach but he's done it at a school that admits and maintains the eligibility of many JUCO's. He does it in a state that has valued JUCO programs that help facilitate this. He's never been able to leverage his on the field success with good recruiting. He's been able to keep a lot of kids on rosters that he wouldn't be able to do in I.C. So, KSU's situation and Iowa's is a bit of apples to oranges.

 

[doclee]

Snyder is a brilliant coach but he's done it at a school that admits and maintains the eligibility of many JUCO's. He does it in a state that has valued JUCO programs that help facilitate this. He's never been able to leverage his on the field success with good recruiting. He's been able to keep a lot of kids on rosters that he wouldn't be able to do in I.C. So, KSU's situation and Iowa's is a bit of apples to oranges.

I did not know that. Thank you for bringing it to our attention. I am still very impressed with Coach Snyder and greatly admire the Hayden Fry coaching tree, but your point is well taken.

I follow Iowa football and basketball recruiting on a "pay for" web site and have really enjoyed it. I will say this: Watch out for Iowa's 2015 recruiting class...they will produce some big time players at Iowa and will be the basis for some very fine teams. I really think Iowa's football recruiting has taken a major step up the last 2 years and will continue to impress in 2015 and through 2016. Go Hawks!

 

[racerhawk]

Recruiting is not the problem. This is a lie sold to those who are willing to join the "we are just little old iowa" crowd. Iowa has everthing for a good football program except a good hc. The talent level at Iowa is underachieving. Until they get a coach that can make them live up to their talent level, and put them in a winning game plan that recruiting talent will stay the same.

You are what you are. Give a poor guy money and he will blow it. Give kirk a bunch a talent and he wont use it.

Iowa typically recruits in the #40-70 range in terms of rankings amongst programs. You are what you
are, indeed.