Pat Forde destroys MSU hiring of Tucker

tweeterhawk said:
“An MSU football coaching search in total disarray threw a king’s ransom at a coach with a career 5–7 record.”
https://www.si.com/college/2020/02/12/michigan-state-mel-tucker-salary-ncaa
https://www.si.com/college/2020/02/12/michigan-state-mel-tucker-salary-ncaa
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Wow. There are a lot of slow burns in that article. MSU is right next to Nebraska on my list of “hope they all get coronavirus” after what’s gone down with Dantonio.

I hope MSU fans read it and get mad.
 
Fryowa said:
Wow. There are a lot of slow burns in that article. MSU is right next to Nebraska on my list of “hope they all get coronavirus” after what’s gone down with Dantonio.

I hope MSU fans read it and get mad.
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listen to the first part of the on Iowa podcast last week where docterman and morehouse chronicle all of MSU trash over the years against Iowa. Makes you hate them even more on top of all the sexual assaults and the gymnastics scandal with Nassar
 
contract aside, tucker is a damn good coach that preaches discipline. you watch is CU team this season and they competed pretty damn hard. i watched a few games because i used to live in CO and just sort of keep track for them and CSU, now. but at minimum, tucker will clean up the program. AND...MSU had no choice but to pay the whatever price tucker wanted because MSU is on the brink of some, serious, serious outcomes, if they aren't careful. when i saw tucker was hired, i was actually a bit depressed cuz i think he'll actually turn that program around. but we shall see.

would anyone be surprised if tom izzo has some sort of (urban meyer) health issue this offseason where he decides to hang it up?
 
ArvadaHawk said:
contract aside, tucker is a damn good coach that preaches discipline. you watch is CU team this season and they competed pretty damn hard. i watched a few games because i used to live in CO and just sort of keep track for them and CSU, now. but at minimum, tucker will clean up the program. AND...MSU had no choice but to pay the whatever price tucker wanted because MSU is on the brink of some, serious, serious outcomes, if they aren't careful. when i saw tucker was hired, i was actually a bit depressed cuz i think he'll actually turn that program around. but we shall see.

would anyone be surprised if tom izzo has some sort of (urban meyer) health issue this offseason where he decides to hang it up?
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Tucker's still a douche bag. A couple days before he left he told recruits and media that he wasn't going anywhere. The NCAA should institute a transfer rule for coaches.

There should be a two week window after your team's last game that you can leave for a higher-paying job, otherwise if you wait longer than that you have to sit the next calendar year and not receive any money from an NCAA member. They make players sit a year and they don't even get any fucking money.

It would also stop teams from structuring contracts in such a way that Mark Douchetonios get fat stacks by waiting until February to quit, since there would be no pool of quality coaches to choose from outside that period.
 
Fryowa said:
Tucker's still a douche bag. A couple days before he left he told recruits and media that he wasn't going anywhere.
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That fact alone in a vacuum seems bad. But the guy might have been committed to staying and had presented MSU with an ungodly list of demands that he was confident they wouldn't meet. When their desperation hit its pinnacle, they may have caved.

I can't believe the powers that be at MSU caved to those demands. It shows how desperate they are to try to protect the football program. Without knowing if sanctions are coming, I would have rolled the dice on a MAC coach for way less money. If you have to pay a buyout on that kind of salary, unless you are inside of a massive athletic department, it can cripple you for years.
 
They pretty much had to pony up. Nobody wanted that job. Everyone was turning it down that they would have preferred to have had. They were down to the 4th or 5th man I think. And like every BIG school raking in that TV money they have it to give out. Don't even need boosters to chip in extra since there's no buyout for Dantonio or anything like that. It's only expensive compared to what the PAC12 and some other schools can pay. It's not expensive to MSU
 
You have to wonder if anyone from MSU contacted Phil Parker to see if there was any interest in the job.
 
The thing is, if MSU gets this wrong it could take them years, if not decades, to dig out of the hold they will find themselves in. There are plenty of examples.

Personally, this thought doesn't bother me one little bit.
 
Fryowa said:
Tucker's still a douche bag. A couple days before he left he told recruits and media that he wasn't going anywhere. The NCAA should institute a transfer rule for coaches.

There should be a two week window after your team's last game that you can leave for a higher-paying job, otherwise if you wait longer than that you have to sit the next calendar year and not receive any money from an NCAA member. They make players sit a year and they don't even get any fucking money.

It would also stop teams from structuring contracts in such a way that Mark Douchetonios get fat stacks by waiting until February to quit, since there would be no pool of quality coaches to choose from outside that period.
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which coach hasn't said that to recruits and teams if the news can't be made public,yet, and it's being reported anyway? if you were looking for a new job and you were told by a new employer that they really wanted to hire you but they couldn't offer you the position, yet, and you go back to your current office and someone asks you "hey, are you taking a job with so and so?" what would you do? would you say yes and risk getting fired and then not actually receiving the offer from the other company?
 
Jonrn said:
listen to the first part of the on Iowa podcast last week where docterman and morehouse chronicle all of MSU trash over the years against Iowa. Makes you hate them even more on top of all the sexual assaults and the gymnastics scandal with Nassar
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I was surprised they didn't even bring up the sexual assaults and Dantonio bringing the disturbed Austen Robertson on campus.

Another one they missed was the A-Rob concussion in 2010 at the end of our 37 - 6 beat-down. He probably shouldn't have been in the game at that point, but also MSU players were clearly head-hunting to take out some frustration. That injury had a huge impact on the season.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
which coach hasn't said that to recruits and teams if the news can't be made public,yet, and it's being reported anyway? if you were looking for a new job and you were told by a new employer that they really wanted to hire you but they couldn't offer you the position, yet, and you go back to your current office and someone asks you "hey, are you taking a job with so and so?" what would you do? would you say yes and risk getting fired and then not actually receiving the offer from the other company?
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Lol, I'm pretty sure as part of my job I never went to my co-workers or subordinates living rooms and promised them that I believed in their talent, and I wanted what's best for them, and that I'm committed to helping them be successful.

Also, if I quit somewhere it doesn't leave my workplace in shambles and chaotically jeopardize the whole thing. Pretty dumb analogy.

Look we can debate this round and round, but you're either a man of your word or a liar; there's no middle ground. That douchey F stick told college kids and their families that he was sticking with them and then he bolted on 'em two days later. If your definition of integrity is different that's fine.
 
Zstatman said:
The thing is, if MSU gets this wrong it could take them years, if not decades, to dig out of the hold they will find themselves in. There are plenty of examples.

Personally, this thought doesn't bother me one little bit.
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I personally hope that's the route it takes, but I feel terrible for the players and parents that are getting hung out to dry.

If a coach came to me and said he wants me to trust him with a huge part of my son's future (that my son had worked his whole life for up to that point), it would be a major deal. And I'm not so stupid to think that a coach will never quit. I get that.

But if the same coach went on TV and said, "Relax, I'm not going anywhere and I'm still committed to this thing," basically saying he's holding up his end of the bargain and then bailed out two days later...

Piece o' shit.
 
Fryowa said:
Lol, I'm pretty sure as part of my job I never went to my co-workers or subordinates living rooms and promised them that I believed in their talent, and I wanted what's best for them, and that I'm committed to helping them be successful.

Also, if I quit somewhere it doesn't leave my workplace in shambles and chaotically jeopardize the whole thing. Pretty dumb analogy.

Look we can debate this round and round, but you're either a man of your word or a liar; there's no middle ground. That douchey F stick told college kids and their families that he was sticking with them and then he bolted on 'em two days later. If your definition of integrity is different that's fine.
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you have displayed little to no common sense, etiquette, good judgement, knowledge of fact, ability to conduct a rational conversation, likability or intelligence. otherwise, your posts add much to this forum.
 
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ArvadaHawk said:
you have displayed little to no common sense, etiquette, good judgement, knowledge of fact, ability to conduct a rational conversation, likability or intelligence. otherwise, your posts add much to this forum.
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Thanks for the analysis, Einstein. Maybe next time you can explain your point and use capital letters.

Unless you don’t have a rebuttal. You’re normal, “Na na na na boo boo works, too.”
 
Fryowa said:
Tucker's still a douche bag. A couple days before he left he told recruits and media that he wasn't going anywhere. The NCAA should institute a transfer rule for coaches.

There should be a two week window after your team's last game that you can leave for a higher-paying job, otherwise if you wait longer than that you have to sit the next calendar year and not receive any money from an NCAA member. They make players sit a year and they don't even get any fucking money.

It would also stop teams from structuring contracts in such a way that Mark Douchetonios get fat stacks by waiting until February to quit, since there would be no pool of quality coaches to choose from outside that period.
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Hardly the first (or likely the last) coach to do something like this. I'm not sure the 2 week window is reasonable...you can't control the hiring timeline of a prospective employer. For ex: what if a team in the playoffs or any bowl for that matter...wanted to hire a guy as a DC or OC or even HC that didn't make a bowl game? Couldn't happen. You also have the domino affect. If a guy at school "A" takes a different job you can't expect his replacement and that guy's replacement and that guy's replacement...all to be interviewed and hired within 2 weeks.

That said, some rule changes wouldn't be bad. The biggest one is regardless of the contract, a school should have redress against any coach that brings the NCAA down on them...if it can be shown that he was in the know. (There in lies the rub, of course). A coach shouldn't be able to bail and stick the school with the disaster without repercussions. Pete Carroll did it the best way...he went pro. Even then USC should have been able to recover some of his comp.

The idea that players can transfer without repercussion also seems fair, but I tend to think it should apply only to incoming recruits or perhaps first year players. Otherwise it could deplete a program pretty quickly. Once a kid is at a school 2 or 3 years, it's also usually to his advantage to close the deal. He's got a lot invested there.

No easy answers though
 
hawkdrummer1 said:
Hardly the first (or likely the last) coach to do something like this. I'm not sure the 2 week window is reasonable...you can't control the hiring timeline of a prospective employer. For ex: what if a team in the playoffs or any bowl for that matter...wanted to hire a guy as a DC or OC or even HC that didn't make a bowl game? Couldn't happen. You also have the domino affect. If a guy at school "A" takes a different job you can't expect his replacement and that guy's replacement and that guy's replacement...all to be interviewed and hired within 2 weeks.

That said, some rule changes wouldn't be bad. The biggest one is regardless of the contract, a school should have redress against any coach that brings the NCAA down on them...if it can be shown that he was in the know. (There in lies the rub, of course). A coach shouldn't be able to bail and stick the school with the disaster without repercussions. Pete Carroll did it the best way...he went pro. Even then USC should have been able to recover some of his comp.

The idea that players can transfer without repercussion also seems fair, but I tend to think it should apply only to incoming recruits or perhaps first year players. Otherwise it could deplete a program pretty quickly. Once a kid is at a school 2 or 3 years, it's also usually to his advantage to close the deal. He's got a lot invested there.

No easy answers though
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My post was more just off the cuff that there needs to be something changed or rules created to disincentivize coaches from bailing on schools number one, and number two disincentivize schools from structuring coaches’ contracts in such a way that guys like Dantonio can wait for the clock to strike midnight in February and skip town.

However it’s structured I do think there needs to be a “transfer” rule to impact coaches leaving after a certain time period. I know it wouldn’t be perfect, but I think what could be the offsetting factor is that schools would structure contracts in such a manner that would prevent it (or at least make it unappealing).

And maybe the answer isn’t a rule change about when and where they can’t go, maybe it’s a rule that says athletes have to be given a certain amount of notice before a coach leaves if he leaves to take a lateral or vertical job offer. Because my main gripe isn’t that he left, that’s happens all the time. It’s that he went public one minute saying he was Rock Steady and flew the coop the next minute leaving the school and players high & dry.

Maybe say that a coach has to notify players by such and such a date otherwise he can’t participate in his new team’s activities until fall ball. If that rule were in effect, MSU would never have structured the contract in such a manner as to give MD a big check in February. They would have either gone looking earlier, or waited because no coach is going to quit in the spring and wait to take over a program in the fall.

I honestly haven’t really sat down and thought through scenarios, and obviously there would be tons of them, but the NCAA is tough on player movement, it needs to be just as tough in coach movement. Especially in egregious ones like this.
 
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