Pac 12 expansion

[NorthKCHawk]

I'm not saying take the college part out of it at all. I'm saying take the NCAA out of it. They're the reason all this craziness came about in the first place. NCAA was created to structure and oversee amateurism in collegiate sports and it turned into a 10-figure corporate monstrosity trying to make money. Amateurism in basketball and football is dead. That's a fact.

Lots of (most I'd guess) D1 football and basketball players want college educations because they aren't going to make money at their sports afterwards, and many star players are gifted academically as well.

What I'm saying is you can have both. You can make money playing sports in college and have it regulated like a pro league if the NCAA gets out of the picture. There's nothing wrong with a super conference/league/whatever you want to call it made up of the best teams in the country.

Conferences were originally created because travel back then was by bus and rail, and it made sense to have groups of geographically close schools play each other in leagues like the Big Ten, Big 8, SEC, etc. Then at the end of the year you take the best teams in those conferences and have bowls and national tournaments. Long distance travel was prohibitive and expensive in 1910. It's still expensive, but it's a miniscule drop in a huge bucket of money for these teams now, and with air travel and caravans of semi-trucks hauling equipment it's no longer prohibitive.

Conferences as they exist now are obsolete except for nostalgic purposes and tradition only. I get it that people cling to it and I do sometimes myself as well. But the world changes and things evolve, and they always have. They will always continue to do so and we aren't going to stop it.

The NCAA could go back to regulating non-revenue sports like it was intended to. But they won't because then the people running it wouldn't become millionaires working there. That alone should tell people it's a BS organization.

All true, but the biggest problem is that the two most powerful men in college football are the commissioners of the SEC and Big10. How many men in power do you know of voluntarily give up that power for the betterment of their constituents? The Commissioner's wont give up their authority unless the member schools force them to do so, and I don't see the presidents being organized enough to do that. Look at the Commissioners joint reaction to the 9 billion dollar private equity superconference concept. No way they are giving up their authority.

The only way this is going to work is if the Commissioners keep their authority over the process. I actually think there is a chance to make this a better system than the NFL. The Commissioners choose a college football COO who establishes a staff to regulate major college football's rules and day to day operations (refs, rules, payments to players, discipline, playoff format, etc.) and the Commissioners act more like a Board of Directors and handle the big things like communicating with the presidents of the schools and Congress, negotiating the TV and other revenue deals, oversight, media etc. The mistake that the NFL made is that Goodell has too much power and authority. Too much central authority in one man. Its made him a villain with no credibility amongst the players or fans. Instead, have one guy run the day to day operations, and his or her bosses be the ones that handle the big picture stuff.


Under that structure, the Commissioners retain the ultimate authority. That is about the only way this will work.

Oh and yes, if college football players don't have to be students anymore, I am out. Completely.

 

[Hawkboys]

Conferences were originally created because travel back then was by bus and rail, and it made sense to have groups of geographically close schools play each other in leagues like the Big Ten, Big 8, SEC, etc. Then at the end of the year you take the best teams in those conferences and have bowls and national tournaments. Long distance travel was prohibitive and expensive in 1910. It's still expensive, but it's a miniscule drop in a huge bucket of money for these teams now, and with air travel and caravans of semi-trucks hauling equipment it's no longer prohibitive.

While travel isn't comparatively expensive in terms of $, I do wonder what the travel cost is in terms of competitiveness. Seeing that B1G schools are like 2-10 traveling 2 time zones, how soon do they split into travel cells by time zone? It's get wonky because 80% of the schools are in the 2 time zones and the other 4 schools are 2-3 time zones away.

 

[Fryowa]

Oh and yes, if college football players don't have to be students anymore, I am out. Completely.

Agree wholeheartedly. You don't necessarily need a college degree to be successful in 2024, but it doesn't hurt your prospects in life at all. Especially when it's paid for.

 

[Fryowa]

While travel isn't comparatively expensive in terms of $, I do wonder what the travel cost is in terms of competitiveness. Seeing that B1G schools are like 2-10 traveling 2 time zones, how soon do they split into travel cells by time zone? It's get wonky because 80% of the schools are in the 2 time zones and the other 4 schools are 2-3 time zones away.

They'll figure it out. It's no different than the NFL when you look at how huge of a production a P4 football game is and they figured it out. It'll be a transition period and they'll have to tweak things a bit but they'll get there.

I'm no PAC12 fan, but I do think it's a tad unfair to those west coast teams. Playing at what's effectively 9AM to them after jet lag and a 3-4 hour flight would suck. A lot of people don't know it but you can and do get dehydrated on flights more than a couple hours. The altitude and 0% humidity aside from other people's breath play hell on your body function and I even notice it myself. These are the top 1% of the 1% athletes too, there's no way it doesn't have an effect. Maybe a stipulation that east to west games 2 time zones or more don't start until 4PM pacfic time would be a good compromise. I do know that if I'm a former PAC12 coach and I need to go to Penn State, UM, Purdue, etc, I'm telling my college's prez that I want to leave Tuesday after practice and find a place to practice Wed/Thu. Friday is your walk-through. These kids can figure out schooling and teams can afford teaching assistants to travel with them for the ones who need it. If you have an o-lineman or whoever who struggles, pay a teaching assistant $2,000 bucks to travel and help your dude out in the evenings for chrissakes. They already have tutoring facilities dedicated to football players, give some of those folks the 4 day vaca, stipend, and free meals. These programs are billion dollar plus entities.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Agree wholeheartedly. You don't necessarily need a college degree to be successful in 2024, but it doesn't hurt your prospects in life at all. Especially when it's paid for.

While that is true, that is not why I will check out. College football is obviously inferior to the NFL product, but it should be because its a bunch of kids. Its also more fun. Its on campus, with bands and cheerleaders made up of other kids, and a student section filled with drunk other kids that can actually afford to get in and see the game because they are kids that go to that school. There are pep rallies, bon fires, alumni games, parades, homecoming games, marching bands showing up at a bar on the Ped Mall on Friday night to play the school fight song, sacred trees, sacred rocks, trophy pigs, trophy axes, rivalries, good natured hate, stealing mascots, tailgating, guys dressed up like Elvis, and yes, there is a Wave.

What makes the butter churn is the fact that there are 20 year old kids under those helmets that chose to go to that school, have pride in that uniform, and yes, show up at Biology class with all those other kids on Monday.

If Iowa chooses to "outsource" its players to non-students who are just not good enough NFL players, but get paid 250k to play guard and live in a house in Des Moines during the week, nope, that is not college football. That is the XFL with an Iowa uniform on. Removing the students from the field, or even making matriculating optional, is where I stand up and head for the exit.

 

[Fryowa]

While that is true, that is not why I will check out. College football is obviously inferior to the NFL product, but it should be because its a bunch of kids. Its also more fun. Its on campus, with bands and cheerleaders made up of other kids, and a student section filled with drunk other kids that can actually afford to get in and see the game because they are kids that go to that school. There are pep rallies, bon fires, alumni games, parades, homecoming games, marching bands showing up at a bar on the Ped Mall on Friday night to play the school fight song, sacred trees, sacred rocks, trophy pigs, trophy axes, rivalries, good natured hate, stealing mascots, tailgating, guys dressed up like Elvis, and yes, there is a Wave.

What makes the butter churn is the fact that there are 20 year old kids under those helmets that chose to go to that school, have pride in that uniform, and yes, show up at Biology class with all those other kids on Monday.

If Iowa chooses to "outsource" its players to non-students who are just not good enough NFL players, but get paid 250k to play guard and live in a house in Des Moines during the week, nope, that is not college football. That is the XFL with an Iowa uniform on. Removing the students from the field, or even making matriculating optional, is where I stand up and head for the exit.

We're on the same page.

 

[Zstatman]

I'm no PAC12 fan, but I do think it's a tad unfair to those west coast teams. Playing at what's effectively 9AM to them after jet lag and a 3-4 hour flight would suck.

The Pac 12 did a study several years ago and decided they should consider having a 9 AM west coast kickoff, a noon-1 kickoff, a late afternoon kickoff, all to give the conference more national exposure. Yes, there would be sacrifice, kind of like Friday night B1G games.

But as was typical of the Pac 12 before it imploded, it couldn't make a decision and tabled it for future consideration. Part of why the confine is where it is today.

 

[Fryowa]

The Pac 12 did a study several years ago and decided they should consider having a 9 AM west coast kickoff, a noon-1 kickoff, a late afternoon kickoff, all to give the conference more national exposure. Yes, there would be sacrifice, kind of like Friday night B1G games.

But as was typical of the Pac 12 before it imploded, it couldn't make a decision and tabled it for future consideration. Part of why the confine is where it is today.

I don't think it needs to be complicated. Make a rule that says any teams travelling west to east two time zones or more get a kick time no earlier than 2:30 PM in the time zone they're coming from. Essentially it would equal an evening game any time that happened. I don't see any downside really.

 

[Will C]

I don't think it needs to be complicated. Make a rule that says any teams travelling west to east two time zones or more get a kick time no earlier than 2:30 PM in the time zone they're coming from. Essentially it would equal an evening game any time that happened. I don't see any downside really.

Great idea.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

I don't think it needs to be complicated. Make a rule that says any teams travelling west to east two time zones or more get a kick time no earlier than 2:30 PM in the time zone they're coming from. Essentially it would equal an evening game any time that happened. I don't see any downside really.

That makes way too much sense. Stop it.

 

[Zstatman]

What about east to west travel? If you have a 7 PM kickoff, that's 10 PMET, that doesn't seem fair. It's never done much for us.

I worry about our game at UCLA, this very same situation. A trap game?

 

[Fryowa]

What about east to west travel? If you have a 7 PM kickoff, that's 10 PMET, that doesn't seem fair. It's never done much for us.

I worry about our game at UCLA, this very same situation. A trap game?

It's a whole lot worse going west to east. More time to prep is always more advantageous than less.