P. Harty Article - Quotes from Settles and Murray
- Thread starter storminspank
- Start date
Pretty clear Barta is behind Lickliter currently. Whether you like Todd or not, pretty clear the Iowa basketball program is at an all-time low. Lickliter will either be rememered as the worst coach in Iowa basketball history or the guy the turned the program around at our lowest point. Pretty amazing to think about the difference...
HawkFantastic
Banned
olivecourt
Well-Known Member
i'm definitely pro-lickliter but there isn't anything that kenyon says that i can disagree with. it is a tougher sell to get mcdonald's all-americans and guys who are used to aau ball to play a more deliberate style. i'm encouraged, however, to note that brust and larson are apparently down with the system enough to sign up for four years' worth. those two can play.
no knock on kenyon, but his own story is a great example of how much more it matters what you do when you get to college than what you do in high school. he was a solid player for us, but when he came in as a high school all-american i expected a 'change the game' type player. he was not that. i'd rather get guys who come as quality players and become "change the game" types over the years, and i think we have a couple of those... just because van coleman didn't like how they looked when they were 15 doesn't mean a guy can't be a great college player.
BSpringsteen
Well-Known Member
No offense to Kenyon Murray who has forgotten more about bball than I'll know...
But the idea that we should change styles to appease yet to be determined recruits is one of the most moronic views I've ever seen expressed. (I know he didn't say this outright, but it is certainly implied.)
Wisconsin plays a similar style and has no problem filling their arena, having exciting games, and getting skilled players to come play there.
It is about winning, and winning only. The system has shown that it can be a winning system (Wisconsin.) So the system is not the problem. The players are the problem. They are not good enough, and there aren't enough of them.
If Lick gets canned it will be because of his inability to recruit and maintain a competitive roster, not because of an uncompetitive style of ball.
But the idea that we should change styles to appease yet to be determined recruits is one of the most moronic views I've ever seen expressed. (I know he didn't say this outright, but it is certainly implied.)
Wisconsin plays a similar style and has no problem filling their arena, having exciting games, and getting skilled players to come play there.
It is about winning, and winning only. The system has shown that it can be a winning system (Wisconsin.) So the system is not the problem. The players are the problem. They are not good enough, and there aren't enough of them.
If Lick gets canned it will be because of his inability to recruit and maintain a competitive roster, not because of an uncompetitive style of ball.
HawkeyeShane
Well-Known Member
Kenyon Murray's comments were quite telling. I suppose the Lickliter bashers will now come with their "I suppose the Lickliter supporter group will..." comments.
Kenyon nails it. We are not just talking McD AA's that do not want to play lickball, we are talking local kids like Paige and Randle.
He is much more intuned to what good recruits are thinking than fans...it is obvious, combine licks lack of salesmanship and his system and Iowa has not come close to getting the ''difference-making'' playmakers you need to have to win in the Big ten.
Nick Russell, Malcolm Armstead,Darius Smith...these are guys we went after and came up way short...and are the kind of athletes we need to get out of the bottom tier of the league. Kenyon knows it, we all know it.
Harty,who helped run SA out of town does a nice job of merging SA's last 7 winning seasons with lick's soon to be 3 straight losing seasons into one ''down'' period for iowa bb...yea right,Pat, winning seasons are just as bad as losing seasons.....why not be truthful and indicate that Bowlsby is the one who made the ''next level'' comments at SA's hire,and made promises of a practice facility in 1999,which never happened...why not be truthful about the last decade and delineate between winning and going to 3 ncaa tournys and the current abyss we are in under lick? Cus Harty is a jerk who knows that he helped put us where we are...
He is much more intuned to what good recruits are thinking than fans...it is obvious, combine licks lack of salesmanship and his system and Iowa has not come close to getting the ''difference-making'' playmakers you need to have to win in the Big ten.
Nick Russell, Malcolm Armstead,Darius Smith...these are guys we went after and came up way short...and are the kind of athletes we need to get out of the bottom tier of the league. Kenyon knows it, we all know it.
Harty,who helped run SA out of town does a nice job of merging SA's last 7 winning seasons with lick's soon to be 3 straight losing seasons into one ''down'' period for iowa bb...yea right,Pat, winning seasons are just as bad as losing seasons.....why not be truthful and indicate that Bowlsby is the one who made the ''next level'' comments at SA's hire,and made promises of a practice facility in 1999,which never happened...why not be truthful about the last decade and delineate between winning and going to 3 ncaa tournys and the current abyss we are in under lick? Cus Harty is a jerk who knows that he helped put us where we are...
Last edited:
I'm not sure all this talk about our "deliberate" style stopping us from recruiting is all that accurate. I watched WVU and Pitt last night and at the end of regulation the game was in the 60's. Most of the game was played in the half-court. Each team noticeably ran offense, worked the shot-clock, and neither team was just running isolation (ie: KSU). Both teams were loaded with athletes, yet still ran offense and played tough grinding in your face defense. Each team ran off turnovers, but other than that it was hardly a track meet.
I think the reason we don't get top recruits, is not the deliberate system but the appearance and culture of our team. Pitt & WVU both seemed to have team cultures that embraced and appealed to urban athletes. Granted Pitt has a huge advantage in that regard, seeing as its an urban campus. However, an urban player would feel like a fish out of water, with this Iowa team. A large majority of our roster is made up-of of rural or suburban kids, and our coach seems to fit this classification as well. Again this is in part because of our location and the make-up of our state (rural). I'm just not sure the nature of our offense is stopping us from getting top recruits.
I think the reason we don't get top recruits, is not the deliberate system but the appearance and culture of our team. Pitt & WVU both seemed to have team cultures that embraced and appealed to urban athletes. Granted Pitt has a huge advantage in that regard, seeing as its an urban campus. However, an urban player would feel like a fish out of water, with this Iowa team. A large majority of our roster is made up-of of rural or suburban kids, and our coach seems to fit this classification as well. Again this is in part because of our location and the make-up of our state (rural). I'm just not sure the nature of our offense is stopping us from getting top recruits.
clicheusername3
Banned
Have you ever thought that just because Wisconsin does it doesn't mean that Iowa will be able to succeed at it? Go be a Wisconsin fan if you love it so much, cuz you can't deny its not flying here...and not producing results.
You are right that our current team roster does add to the alienation of potential urban recruits who ,like anyone, want to hang with some guys of similar background...but the system also contributes...Lick has consistently had teams at Butler and Iowa that are in the bottom 5% in tempo...WV and Pitt have not. A game here and there is an aberration,but when lick has had 8 years in the bottom in tempo,that is a pattern not an occasional slow game.
The combo of the slow system, the lack of black players,Iowa's demographics with licks lack of salesmanship...it is killing our recruiting.
BSpringsteen
Well-Known Member
I don't love it, but don't deny that the system has shown great success at other schools.
It isn't the system that isn't producing results, it's the players.
Edit: Cliché: Let's acknowledge that whatever your thoughts on Lickliter, he knows more about basketball than any of us here. Firing a coach because of the "system" is beyond moronic.
It isn't the system that isn't producing results, it's the players.
Edit: Cliché: Let's acknowledge that whatever your thoughts on Lickliter, he knows more about basketball than any of us here. Firing a coach because of the "system" is beyond moronic.
Last edited:
clicheusername3
Banned
Really because imo lick's system has only worked at one mid major conference school. So Schools plural would be inaccurate.
burky247
Well-Known Member
Barta even bringing up Wyoming is what makes me shake my head. And reaffirms my contention that the guy is in over his head.
Bringing up the football comparisons was also ridiculous. Although I imagine he did get a lot of negative emails about our coaches, football is a different monster in Iowa. We expect a lot more out of our football team. Right or wrong, we(as fans) don't have the same patience or are willing to give the same margin of error out of our football teams.
Basketball, on the other hand, we would be willing to cut some slack on our coaches. I doubt you'd find a whole lot of people who are insisting on BT titles. We just want to go dancing for the most part. And have an exciting product on the floor.
I will continue to say you won't see big crowds at Carver with this type of system. And some of you can continue to call me crazy...that wins will bring interest.
We shall see. Assuming we ever see wins with this system that is.
Bringing up the football comparisons was also ridiculous. Although I imagine he did get a lot of negative emails about our coaches, football is a different monster in Iowa. We expect a lot more out of our football team. Right or wrong, we(as fans) don't have the same patience or are willing to give the same margin of error out of our football teams.
Basketball, on the other hand, we would be willing to cut some slack on our coaches. I doubt you'd find a whole lot of people who are insisting on BT titles. We just want to go dancing for the most part. And have an exciting product on the floor.
I will continue to say you won't see big crowds at Carver with this type of system. And some of you can continue to call me crazy...that wins will bring interest.
We shall see. Assuming we ever see wins with this system that is.
HawkeyeRyno
Banned
Murray has some valid points and when alumni start talking about the program the way Settles and Murray are along with the national media's perception (ESPN's Andy Katz - Iowa is "irrelevant") then there are bigger problems to solve than "just winning."
Barta needs to stop comparing the current struggles of the basketball program with the 2006-07 football struggles. While football may have "struggled" those years, the amount of criticism toward football was minuscule compared to that currently of basketball. Ferentz had already proven success before this (by year 3 in fact) and proven he could rebuild a program. Ferentz realized things needed to change and so he hires new staff members (i.e. Erik Campbell, Chigazie Ejiasi) along with a coaching philosophy in recruiting, bowl prep and discipline. That change has paid off as well. Ferentz and his staff are also exceptional at player development. Attendance during 06-07 was also not a problem.
Lickliter and his staff have ZERO proven success at IOWA going into year four. Lickliter's third year could be his WORST and a history worst. And haven't been able to keep kids in the program long enough to show significant player development. At least not along the same lines as the football program. Attendance is a HUGE problem with basketball. Lickliter deserves another year but maybe he should change some sort of philosophies or make a staff adjustment. It worked for Ferentz.
The football team won the Alamo Bowl in Ferentz's third year and would go to the Orange Bowl the following year. Along the same lines then, the basketball team should be in the NIT this year and then then next year should make an Elite 8 appearance (this is NOT going to happen BTW). In the years Barta is referring to the football team's struggles, at least they still went to a bowl game and were .500 the following year. That is mediocre maybe but the basketball team's current state is worse than mediocre! For Barta to make these comparisons are just not valid IMO.
Davis was let go because he couldn't take the program to "the next level". Then Alford comes in and he fails to take the program to "the next level". Now all we want from Lickliter is to at least get the program back to where Alford left it???? Isn't this irony???
Barta needs to stop comparing the current struggles of the basketball program with the 2006-07 football struggles. While football may have "struggled" those years, the amount of criticism toward football was minuscule compared to that currently of basketball. Ferentz had already proven success before this (by year 3 in fact) and proven he could rebuild a program. Ferentz realized things needed to change and so he hires new staff members (i.e. Erik Campbell, Chigazie Ejiasi) along with a coaching philosophy in recruiting, bowl prep and discipline. That change has paid off as well. Ferentz and his staff are also exceptional at player development. Attendance during 06-07 was also not a problem.
Lickliter and his staff have ZERO proven success at IOWA going into year four. Lickliter's third year could be his WORST and a history worst. And haven't been able to keep kids in the program long enough to show significant player development. At least not along the same lines as the football program. Attendance is a HUGE problem with basketball. Lickliter deserves another year but maybe he should change some sort of philosophies or make a staff adjustment. It worked for Ferentz.
The football team won the Alamo Bowl in Ferentz's third year and would go to the Orange Bowl the following year. Along the same lines then, the basketball team should be in the NIT this year and then then next year should make an Elite 8 appearance (this is NOT going to happen BTW). In the years Barta is referring to the football team's struggles, at least they still went to a bowl game and were .500 the following year. That is mediocre maybe but the basketball team's current state is worse than mediocre! For Barta to make these comparisons are just not valid IMO.
Davis was let go because he couldn't take the program to "the next level". Then Alford comes in and he fails to take the program to "the next level". Now all we want from Lickliter is to at least get the program back to where Alford left it???? Isn't this irony???
Last edited:
Irony at its finest. Very well said.
blkngoldUofI
Well-Known Member
There is no reason why this team can't run a fast break. I'm a supporter of Lick but that is the one thing that amazes me. There are times when a fast break basket can change a game, the momentum of the game but Iowa rarely does that. I would rather get an easy two rather than throwing up a three with 2 seconds left on the shot clock. Lick obviously wants control of the game with running set plays but it is mind blowing at times that a team of basketball players can't run a fast break. It's pretty simple to do. I don't mind Lick coaching his style of play but there is going to come a time when he is going to have to adjust and let the players start playing basketball and not baby them from making mistakes. A dunk by May, Cole or getting an easy basket would do wonders for the player and the teams confidence.
BradBanks02
Well-Known Member
"Haluska was on the team briefly"
He was here for 3 years.
He was here for 3 years.
Tmoney12
Well-Known Member
On the Hornets briefly... learn to read.
