Oversigning

T

treychase

Well-Known Member
Someone please explain to me why this isn't talked & written more about...

Alabama Oversigning.com

Only explanation I have is that the media is unbelievably lazy.

By my estimation & the numbers I've seen, the SEC should never lose a single game, ever.
SEC schools AVERAGE an extra class of players(roughly 20 players) every four years compared to B10 schools.
 
great question. Also, recruiting rankings are based on number of signees as well so the more kids you sign, the more points you earn, the higher your ranking.
 
The media in the South doesn't want to expose their own teams so it would have to be exposed by a media agency outside of the area. And then after that you have to get people to listen and be outraged. Apparently it hasn't gotten the right people's attention. Or else those people don't care. To be honest, I'm sure none of the other big conferences want to see this extra talent being spread out to the smaller conferences making them more competitive.
 
treychase said:
Someone please explain to me why this isn't talked & written more about...

Alabama Oversigning.com

Only explanation I have is that the media is unbelievably lazy.

By my estimation & the numbers I've seen, the SEC should never lose a single game, ever.
SEC schools AVERAGE an extra class of players(roughly 20 players) every four years compared to B10 schools.
Click to expand...

I love how some of the comments on the first article on that website try to paint oversigning and forcing other players to leave as a good thing for the player. I think one person tried to frame it as, "if the player wasn't as good as an underclassmen wouldn't it be ethical for the coach to do the moral thing and try to help him transfer to where he wants to go".... I read that as, "if a player isn't going to be as good as a younger guy, shouldn't our coach be allowed to tell him to transfer or be a walk on?".
 
I thought that the SEC put rules in place to prevent this. ISU's seen this first hand as a couple of years ago we lost a player to Houston Nutt's oversigning. He was down to Miss and ISU and chose Miss. only to not have a scholarship when he got there.
 
Clonehomer said:
I thought that the SEC put rules in place to prevent this. ISU's seen this first hand as a couple of years ago we lost a player to Houston Nutt's oversigning. He was down to Miss and ISU and chose Miss. only to not have a scholarship when he got there.
Click to expand...

The SEC has a "limit" of only 28 signees per class. That means that in a four year period, a team can still sign up to 112 players.
 
Wow this I never even thought about this before. But I did notice that the southern teams always seemed to have huge recruiting hauls every year.
 
Until a bunch of players who were promised scholarships and ended up not getting one start to come out and bring some lawsuits against the schools nothing will happen. The NCAA won't stop it.

It doesn't really matter anyway, because kids go to the school they want and even if they don't get a scholarship their first year most of them stay.
 
Clonehomer said:
I thought that the SEC put rules in place to prevent this. ISU's seen this first hand as a couple of years ago we lost a player to Houston Nutt's oversigning. He was down to Miss and ISU and chose Miss. only to not have a scholarship when he got there.
Click to expand...

ISU is not in a position to criticize any other school about this. Iowa St is one of the worst offenders in the country when it comes to oversigning kids.
 
thejumper5 said:
The SEC has a "limit" of only 28 signees per class. That means that in a four year period, a team can still sign up to 112 players.
Click to expand...

I believe that rule is recent, and put in largely because of this particular Houston Nutt class. I believe he had something like 35-38 signess in that class, which was just ludicrous.

What the SEC is doing is stacking the deck much like power programs before the advent of scholarship limits. Not all the 4-5 stars pan out, so you recruit over them, and force out the ones that have underperformed. I just wish the top prospects were a little bit smarter with their decisions. That talent in a different school and coaching system might live up to the hype, and be a decent player for a school that could really use them, and not one that will show them the door in two years.
 
HawkeyeMike23 said:
ISU is not in a position to criticize any other school about this. Iowa St is one of the worst offenders in the country when it comes to oversigning kids.
Click to expand...
Support your argument with some facts. Based on us giving at least 3 walkons scholarships this year, I find this hard to believe. We have done this consistently for a while, and Rhoads said his biggest problem when he got here was trying to fill these scholarships. We have big signing classes, but due to non qualifiers

The other thing to realize is that ISU is not oversigning. The reason why ISU classes are big is primarilly because you don't know who a lot of those signees are. Why? Because they never qualified, therefore we never had to use a scholarship on them, and had to fill it the next recruiting cycle. In my mind, oversigning is getting more letter of intents than you have open scholarships for the upcoming season. ISU does not typically do this. They usually fill their scholarships, some don't qualify, and we have open scholarships that are awarded for a year to a walk-on, and then given out the next year. They have big classes when previous classes lose a lot of kids to qualification problems.
 
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treychase said:
Someone please explain to me why this isn't talked & written more about...

Alabama Oversigning.com

Only explanation I have is that the media is unbelievably lazy.

By my estimation & the numbers I've seen, the SEC should never lose a single game, ever.
SEC schools AVERAGE an extra class of players(roughly 20 players) every four years compared to B10 schools.
Click to expand...

ESPN's Outside the Lines had a great look at this last month and mentioned in this forum.

http://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum/football/22562-there-scummier-conference-than-sec.html
 
The SEC most certainly does NOT limit classes to 28 signees.
In fact if you look at the numbers I'd say they apparently require a MINIMUM of 28 signees.

Ole Miss signed 37 players in 2009.
Northwestern signed 35 in 2009 & 2010 COMBINED!

I continued to be amazed at the ignorance of the media, it is remarkable.
 
treychase said:
The SEC most certainly does NOT limit classes to 28 signees.
In fact if you look at the numbers I'd say they apparently require a MINIMUM of 28 signees.

Ole Miss signed 37 players in 2009.
Northwestern signed 35 in 2009 & 2010 COMBINED!

I continued to be amazed at the ignorance of the media, it is remarkable.
Click to expand...

You mean the same media that is all up in arms about the "Ohio State 5" playing in their bowl game, but apparently cool with "Show Me The Money" Newton playing in the title game? THAT media???
 
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Iowa brings in more kids than they have scholarships for just like other schools we are just more up front to players about it and give them preferred walk-on status where they can earn a scholarship later. Think about how we can be losing 26 seniors and only have 19 scholarships right now some sophomore will get a scholarship a senior vacated because of walking on and working hard. SEC schools do this with kids that over sign they just aren't as up front about it and that is the problem.
 
Foval21 said:
Iowa brings in more kids than they have scholarships for just like other schools we are just more up front to players about it and give them preferred walk-on status where they can earn a scholarship later. Think about how we can be losing 26 seniors and only have 19 scholarships right now some sophomore will get a scholarship a senior vacated because of walking on and working hard. SEC schools do this with kids that over sign they just aren't as up front about it and that is the problem.
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There's a difference between signing a kid and then taking away his scholarship later, and giving former walk-ons a scholarship that was owned by a player that has graduated/went pro/transferred/etc.

Auburn signed 119 players over the past 4 years. That's 34-player overdraft. Take a look at the Big Ten. The oversigning that happens there can be easily explained. A few extra guys accounts for the transfers, guys leaving early, etc. But the Big Ten's leader in average signees per year (Purdue) would have finished 9th in the SEC.
 
They are allowed to have 85 scholarship players. If after a year they only have 55 scholarship players still on their roster they can conceivably sign 30 scholarships...So 30 would NOT be oversigning. Sometimes the school is just trying to fill a roster spot, we can't fault Alabama for giving another open scholarship out because Mark Ingram entered the draft. If Sash and Prater and McNutt or any of them go to the draft do you think Iowa won't try to fill their scholarships. The difference is the SEC schools tend to have more people leave early than B10 schools do.
 
Foval21 said:
They are allowed to have 85 scholarship players. If after a year they only have 55 scholarship players still on their roster they can conceivably sign 30 scholarships...So 30 would NOT be oversigning. Sometimes the school is just trying to fill a roster spot, we can't fault Alabama for giving another open scholarship out because Mark Ingram entered the draft. If Sash and Prater and McNutt or any of them go to the draft do you think Iowa won't try to fill their scholarships. The difference is the SEC schools tend to have more people leave early than B10 schools do.
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Yes, there are times where a 30-player class is within reason. 119 players over a 4 year period (when theoretically it would be 85) is ridiculous. That's an average of almost 8 extra players PER YEAR. And since 2002, Auburn has signed fewer than 27 just twice. During the same period, Ohio State has NEVER signed more than 25, and signed fewer than 20 three times.

For a school to sign 30 players, they would have to have had a class that was undersized. Auburn hasn't had an undersized class in years, yet they sign 27-32 players.
 
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