outside zone vs inside zone vs iso or power

[CP87]

So what a lot of people call a 'stretch' play would be properly termed an outside zone?

Yes, synonymous terms.

 

[NCHawker]

I think that timing step is why I think Daniels reminds me of Greene...? nevermind...

just watched SG again...he sort of loops

lines up inside the hash runs towar the right and curves back to the left.

 

[99topdawg]

Couple of reasons I assume inside zone lead:

1) The little step by Greene was subtle (and he almost turns his pads parallel to the sideline), but something I noticed he did quite frequently to "time up" the play. I don't know if that was something he did or something that was coached, but from memory, he's the one that springs to mind when I think of that timing step. He generally didn't do that on OS zone because he needed to get to his spot ASAP.

2) The track taken by both the FB (Morse that year?) and Greene. Inside leg of the guard, split the guard, outside leg of the guard, however Iowa teaches it.

3) The cutback...generally speaking OS zone is a 2 way go. You either get a seam when you get to the edge or you bounce it around the edge. The play where Greene scored is an easy example of getting a seam before you reach the edge, banging it up inside, and having a hole the size of a truck to run through. IS zone is a 3 way go...the same options as the OS zone (bang it up inside or bounce it), but also the cutback is the 3rd option. For some good ol' fashioned tail whipping, watch Bruggeman on the 1-tech NT. That guy tried to cross Brugg's face and he paid for it, which opened up the cutback lane. LB's keying guards to FB flowed, leaving another sizable hole.

I agree with it being an inside zone play. In the post you quoted, stated iso, simply referring to the fb. leading. In the system in which I coach, I coach, we call it an iso, so the OLdoesn't feel they need to block the playside backer. Not really a true iso, to be honest. In my other post on this play I explained my reasoning why I feel it is inside zone, such as the double team combo block. Great point about SG's feet and steps. Makes me even more sure of inside zone.

 

[99topdawg]

I am going to say inside zone on that one, but I will be interested to see what Coach says. Note that they block the backside DE on this play (will typically leave him unblocked in OZ because he should not be fast enough to make the play). Also note the crease breaks backside. Because there is a FB you could perhaps say iso again, but I think the FB is blocking a zone, not a man.

Here is a great, recent example of inside zone from this year's Wisconsin game:

[video=youtube;NGb2WXNtpfw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGb2WXNtpfw[/video]

Great find. Inside zone to the weak side, like this play, is a great way to keep defenses honest and still gain some yards.

 

[NCHawker]

I don't know if this is significant or not - Canzeri follows the same path as Greene. Starts toward the right and loops/cuts back to left - is that the same play?

 

[hawkfan2679]

I don't know if this is significant or not - Canzeri follows the same path as Greene. Starts toward the right and loops/cuts back to left - is that the same play?

If you are talking about the first play in the Canzeri vid above, I'd say it's the same play (inside zone lead to the right). The only real difference is the formation, which is an advantage of zone blocking. Whether you are using 3 TE's or 0 TE's, the rules for the OL stay the same (generally speaking). Playside step, read covered/uncovered, don't let anyone cross your face, secure 1st level before moving to 2nd.

Sidebar: I just noticed in that vid that Canzeri does the shoulder turn timing step as well, so this must be a coached thing. His doesn't appear to be as noticeable as Greene's, but thought it worth noting.

 

[CP87]

I don't know if this is significant or not - Canzeri follows the same path as Greene. Starts toward the right and loops/cuts back to left - is that the same play?

Same play, but slightly different cuts due to different reactions by the D. The PSU D-line slants very hard to playside all across the line, allowing Greene to cutback right away. In the Canzieri play, D-line plays it more straight up on the backside, but the LBs are still pursuing hard to the playside, so Canzieri cuts back at the second level.

 

[Foval21]

Yes, synonymous terms.

Depends on the team...some use the terms to denote a type of zone block and some use it to differentiate an aim point. For example inside zone is usually aimed at the guard (my teaching point is outside leg of guard), outside zone is usually aimed outside the tackle (I teach to replace te position), stretch play is usually aimed even wider in some systems (I teach aim for the slot area). I also know some that teach to always you basic double team zone on the outside and use a pin and pull zone on the stretch (similar to fold blocking).

 

[olddude]

In some of the examples given, it is designed to get a d flowing one direction and cut back. (Inside cut back).
Sometimes you make a crease between linemen and lead a fb first. (Inside)
Sometimes when they plug the a gap and are determined to not let you run between tackles, your tackle and fb and ora te, try and seal the edge. (Outside zone).
Then you have the stretch which everyone flows the same direction with an o lineman trying to get leverage and slow his guy while the next o line man tries to get leverage on the other side of his defender, which opens a lane.
Thats what I have always called them. Right or wrong, idk.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Same play, but slightly different cuts due to different reactions by the D. The PSU D-line slants very hard to playside all across the line, allowing Greene to cutback right away. In the Canzieri play, D-line plays it more straight up on the backside, but the LBs are still pursuing hard to the playside, so Canzieri cuts back at the second level.

It might look a little different due to D scheme. Remember, Wisconsin moved to 30 scheme this year. PSU was/still is in (typically) a 40 scheme. Assignments for OL may basically be the same, but may have to shift, depending on TE formation.

I think the step/timing thing is probably "taught", just like the way Hayden's QBs all did their drop-backs (always looked eerie during pre-game).

It makes me appreciate the adjustments Weisman would have to have made in our system.