Our entire basketball program needs to do some serious reflection

U

urohawk

Well-Known Member
With all the things that are swirling around I just wanted to make a couple comments. The article by Herb Gould bothered me. Not because I think he is right but because I do feel that is the perception by people outside of Iowa.

I had just started college at Iowa when Tom Davis was not retained. At the time I thought it was a good thing. In hindsight I was 100% wrong. Now w/ Alford I think you have to put things in more perspective than what Herb did. Alford's legacy of Pierce completely ruined him to Iowa fans plus his general attitude. Alford leaving wasn't entirely Iowa fan's fault but it adds to the national perception.

I don't think it is wrong to get rid of Lick right now but we as Iowa fans need to not look like we need a pound of flesh. As a program and fanbase we have to take some responsibility for what has happened the past 12 years. I mean we built a 7.5 million dollar rowing house while our basketball program rotted. Plus our program lacks the gameday atmosphere that many good programs have. The most glaring being the lack of a great student section that can turn even a poorly attended game into a great atmosphere.

I think there is some merit to what Alford said that we are a football school. Now the biggest glaring issue is being corrected as we speak (I just drove by Carver this morning and the renovation is progressing) but Iowa fans still need to do more. From the student body up to the season ticket holders the marketing department and Gary Barta, if we want a good solid program we all need to kick in.

I believe the new coach will have more support than Lick. If he makes it by the first round of the NCAA tournament in 3 years of being coach he will look like a God. Plus his first class will have the new facility. But having said that we need to respond and start bucking the perception that all we do is complain and not support. It will be a long haul and it starts now.
 
1. Fans don't run coaches off. Fans cheer and fans *****, we aren't rational, we're fanatics. For millions of dollars, I would think coaches should have teflon underwear by now. Fans at Iowa are no different than other big schools around the country.

2. Iowa has not kept up with the Joneses with basketball facilities. They are trying to play catch up now. Hopefully it's not too late. I actually with Steve Alford on this point.

3. The arena experience at Carver is nearly the same as 1990. Is your world the same today as it was 20 years ago? "We're the Hawkeyes, why aren't we sold out" isn't a marketing plan. You are competing for my entertainment dollar...step up your game. We have other places to spend our time and money and I LOVE the Hawkeyes.

Whoever ends up with the job, I hope they can not only coach, but can sell to a (thank God) still passionate fanbase.

Rant over...
 
rdubbs said:
I'm just glad we didn't run Kirk outta town after his first season.
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Lick is in year 3 not year 1.

Did KF have better records in years 2 and 3? Now did TL have better records in years 2 and 3? Did KF lose multiple starters (not seniors) after years 1 and 2, how about TL? Did Kinnick become a ghost town, how about Carver? Should I continue with the differences between what KF and TL each did in their first 3 years to have earned a 4th year?
 
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i agree woody98. If Iowa would put a better product on the floor, I am sure the games would sell out. But our boring style of play, doesn't get peoples attention. I remember back in the day Indian Hills used to sell out their arena every game because they ran an up-tempo style of basketball and they were good.

Iowa basketball is boring, we are slow-down take our time style of basketball. We also do not have good shooters, which hurts us because when we need a shot it doesn't go. That is why Lick needs to change his style of play, hell he can keep the offense the same, but press once in a while! Use the old Mr. Davis method of pressing and causing turnovers! I think lick needs to change something, if he doesn't then Iowa basketball will not improve at all.
 
hawkeyescott said:
Did KF have better records in years 2 and 3? Now did TL have better records in years 2 and 3? Did KF lose multiple starters (not seniors) after years 1 and 2, how about TL? Did Kinnick become a ghost town, how about Carver? Should I continue with the differences between what KF and TL each did in their first 3 years to have earned a 4th year?
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No, you overreacted just fine! :D
 
We didn't run Lickliter off! Lickliters performance will run him off!
Many transfers, records for losses in a season, record beat downs by conference foes. Now rumors of more transfers.
I don't have to be hit in the head too many times before I start ducking. Why do you apologists keep insisting on making a case to keep him? This is the worst 3 year span for Iowa basketball ever. Why keep doing the same thing and expect different results?
Lets just move on!
 
Hawkize1 said:
We didn't run Lickliter off! Lickliters performance will run him off!
Many transfers, records for losses in a season, record beat downs by conference foes. Now rumors of more transfers.
I don't have to be hit in the head too many times before I start ducking. Why do you apologists keep insisting on making a case to keep him? This is the worst 3 year span for Iowa basketball ever. Why keep doing the same thing and expect different results?
Lets just move on!
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Who's making a case to keep him?
 
Hawkeyeshane, look at some of the other threads, I'm shocked and dissapointed at the amount of people on here making a case for him to stay. I'm sure if Lick is back on the Iowa bench next year we are doomed to repeat this year again. (maybe not exactly, but it's not going to change for the better) I'd hate to see Matt Gatens, Aaron Fuller, Jaryd Cole finish their careers with no post season opportunities. This regime hasn't demonstrated the ability to move this team to a competitive level. So Lick can go now!
That's how I feel!
 
Hawkize1 said:
We didn't run Lickliter off! Lickliters performance will run him off!
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This is the correct answer. I see some people already trumping up their cases that we have "run off yet another coach", and will believe that until the day they die. That's ok, they can believe whatever they want. It doesn't make it TRUE.

I don't agree with the decision to let Tom Davis go. Alford's success at UNM this year, along with Lickliter's failures, has put some egg on our faces. It doesn't change the fact that Alford was only able to win 1 NCAA game in 8 years as our coach. Those two coaches were here for 21 years between the two of them. Iowa Basketball has been anything but a revolving door, up until the Lickliter hire. Let's hope this is the last coaching change we'll have to make any time soon.

The truth about Lickliter is that he has broken the old record of 16 losses in a season each and every year as our coach, and he absolutely shattered that record this year. He has the worst winning percentage in the history of Iowa coaches. That is not my opinion. Those are facts that you can find in our record books. If Lickliter isn't a coach that was in dire need of being run off, then I just don't know who is. Do we just let the train wreck continue on and on so that we can prove to the rest of the sporting world how nice we are?
 
HawkeyeShane said:
Who's making a case to keep him?
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I am certainly not although my parents who are donors and season ticket holders think Iowa fans have acted very poorly. It does depend on your point of view, which was my point on Herb Gould.

My point is that as a program we need to control what we can control. That means upgrading the facility and improving the atmosphere. I am not saying our fans our worse than other places, but we certainly are not better. I think whoever the next coach is will need some strong positive vibes from the fanbase to help w/ the rebuilding. We can't wait for a team to compete for a Big Ten Championship before we support. We need better crowds and less negativity for several years and then hopefully the championships will be there.
 
As a native Iowan who is an IU graduate, I consider myself something of an outsider. I don't think Iowa fans are unrealistic in expecting success. If anything the loyalty and support for this program are astounding.

Do Iowa fans tend to overhype recruits? Yes. Do they tend to think that fate is always against them? Yes. Do they remember past players/teams as being better than they were? Yes. Guess what? So does every other fan group in the country, Indiana included.

Iowans are passionate about Hawkeye Basketball and should not be expected to live with the current state of this program.
 
I'd be happy with a team that was at least competitive in big10 play... give the fans some hope and they'll be back. We are a very loyal passionate fan base.... that is why there is such a backlash with what Lick has done here.... it needs repeating... WORST 3 YEAR STRETCH EVER.... There is blood on my hands as I wanted Mr. Davis out.... I was excited about Alford... and Lick.... I'm like a dog that gets beat... I keep coming back to Iowa BB in hopes that THIS time it works.


urohawk said:
.... We need better crowds and less negativity for several years and then hopefully the championships will be there.
Click to expand...
 
hoosieriniowa said:
As a native Iowan who is an IU graduate, I consider myself something of an outsider. I don't think Iowa fans are unrealistic in expecting success. If anything the loyalty and support for this program are astounding.

Do Iowa fans tend to overhype recruits? Yes. Do they tend to think that fate is always against them? Yes. Do they remember past players/teams as being better than they were? Yes. Guess what? So does every other fan group in the country, Indiana included.

Iowans are passionate about Hawkeye Basketball and should not be expected to live with the current state of this program.
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Thanks for the somewhat outsider opinion. I agree that the current state of the program is unacceptable. Quite honestly even if yesterday didn't happen I don't think things were going to be much better next year w/ Lick back so it really was just another year of prolonging the agony. Our program has hit rock bottom and we need to do everything possible to build it up. Patience and passion (and a whole lot of money) will be needed in this process.
 
urohawk said:
With all the things that are swirling around I just wanted to make a couple comments. The article by Herb Gould bothered me. Not because I think he is right but because I do feel that is the perception by people outside of Iowa.

I had just started college at Iowa when Tom Davis was not retained. At the time I thought it was a good thing. In hindsight I was 100% wrong. Now w/ Alford I think you have to put things in more perspective than what Herb did. Alford's legacy of Pierce completely ruined him to Iowa fans plus his general attitude. Alford leaving wasn't entirely Iowa fan's fault but it adds to the national perception.

I don't think it is wrong to get rid of Lick right now but we as Iowa fans need to not look like we need a pound of flesh. As a program and fanbase we have to take some responsibility for what has happened the past 12 years. I mean we built a 7.5 million dollar rowing house while our basketball program rotted. Plus our program lacks the gameday atmosphere that many good programs have. The most glaring being the lack of a great student section that can turn even a poorly attended game into a great atmosphere.

I think there is some merit to what Alford said that we are a football school. Now the biggest glaring issue is being corrected as we speak (I just drove by Carver this morning and the renovation is progressing) but Iowa fans still need to do more. From the student body up to the season ticket holders the marketing department and Gary Barta, if we want a good solid program we all need to kick in.

I believe the new coach will have more support than Lick. If he makes it by the first round of the NCAA tournament in 3 years of being coach he will look like a God. Plus his first class will have the new facility. But having said that we need to respond and start bucking the perception that all we do is complain and not support. It will be a long haul and it starts now.
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+1, very nicely stated urohawk. The problems go back further than 12 years however :)
 
rdubbs said:
You apparently know how the buyout of the contract will work (where the money will come from) AND who the next coach is (and how we'll pay him) so Shane, let the rest of us in on it :rolleyes:
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Here is how the buyout will work and where the money could come from if Lick and Iowa can't come to some other terms other than what is in the contract. His contract is public knowledge and if you search you can find it online.

http://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum/basketball/6835-licks-buyout-affordable-iowa.html
 
urohawk said:
With all the things that are swirling around I just wanted to make a couple comments. The article by Herb Gould bothered me. Not because I think he is right but because I do feel that is the perception by people outside of Iowa.

I had just started college at Iowa when Tom Davis was not retained. At the time I thought it was a good thing. In hindsight I was 100% wrong. Now w/ Alford I think you have to put things in more perspective than what Herb did. Alford's legacy of Pierce completely ruined him to Iowa fans plus his general attitude. Alford leaving wasn't entirely Iowa fan's fault but it adds to the national perception.

I don't think it is wrong to get rid of Lick right now but we as Iowa fans need to not look like we need a pound of flesh. As a program and fanbase we have to take some responsibility for what has happened the past 12 years. I mean we built :confused:THE UNIVERSITY BUILT NOT WE:confused: a 7.5 million dollar rowing house while our basketball program rotted. Plus our program lacks the gameday atmosphere that many good programs have. The most glaring being the lack of a great student section that can turn even a poorly attended game into a great atmosphere.

I think there is some merit to what Alford said that we are a football school. Now the biggest glaring issue is being corrected as we speak (I just drove by Carver this morning and the renovation is progressing) but Iowa fans still need to do more. From the student body up to the season ticket holders the marketing department and Gary Barta, if we want a good solid program we all need to kick in.

I believe the new coach will have more support than Lick. If he makes it by the first round of the NCAA tournament in 3 years of being coach he will look like a God. Plus his first class will have the new facility. But having said that we need to respond and start bucking the perception that all we do is complain and not support. It will be a long haul and it starts now.
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You seriously believe the National Perception of the Iowa Fanbase is complain and not support. I would have a bigger problem if the Iowa fans weren't talking. That would IMO show Iowa doesn't care or support it's program. The national perception of Iowa basketball is the lowest it has been in my lifetime and I'm 41. We are irrevelent. So if it takes something like this to make us revelent I'm all for it.

I guess I would ask have you been sleeping the last 3 years and just woke up or were you one that didn't care until you read an article from the Chicago Sun Times.

I honestly don't get it.
 
HawkPrdatr40 said:
You seriously believe the National Perception of the Iowa Fanbase is complain and not support. I would have a bigger problem if the Iowa fans weren't talking. That would IMO show Iowa doesn't care or support it's program. The national perception of Iowa basketball is the lowest it has been in my lifetime and I'm 41. We are irrevelent. So if it takes something like this to make us revelent I'm all for it.

I guess I would ask have you been sleeping the last 3 years and just woke up or were you one that didn't care until you read an article from the Chicago Sun Times.

I honestly don't get it.
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Yep just woke up, have been in a coma.

I do think that our reputation as a good fanbase has taken a hit. With Davis getting run out and haveing a lot of success at Drake and Alford leaving and having such great success at New Mexico other coaches might say maybe it is not the coaches but rather the program. I expected responses like yours because I have seen the same attitude from far to many Iowa fans. To not except any blame for our program being run to the ground and only blame it on two coaches is very naive. We need rally big time and give the next coach every opportunity to succeed. I think we can.
 
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